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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:25 PM
Original message
On Rice as a possible VP ....
I want to take a minute to discuss the push by some republicans to put Condi Rice on the ticket with John McCain in the fall. At first glance, it might seem to be primarily an attempt to counter the democratic party’s having a black man and a woman as the two finalists in their presidential primary. And, in fact, that is certainly part of the reason why the republican party might embrace the proposal.

No matter who wins the democratic nod, the republicans are aware that Rice could present an alternative to the supporters of the losing democrat. The amount of hostility between the Clinton and Obama camps is capable of mutating into a fracture within the party, should the contest be decided at the convention.

Some people have pointed out that Condi has some glaring weaknesses. A few that stand out are the infamous April 8, 2004 film clip of 9/11 Commission Member Richard Ben-Veniste questioning Rice about a White House memo entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside United States," and a quote from Bob Woodward’s book "State of War":

"Even the president’s father had confided that he was unhappy with Rice. ‘Condi is a disappointment, isn’t she?’ the former president had offered, adding, ‘She’s not up to the job’." (page 420)

Rice has perhaps done a better job of protecting President Bush2 than his father would admit. She has been associated with several of the administration’s scandals, including the intelligence failures associated with 9/11, with the decision to invade and occupy Iraq, and also in the neocon/AIPAC espionage scandal. And she has managed to avoid any of the oversight that is mandated by the Constitution of the United States.

In the world of politics, it is always important to look behind the picture that is being presented by the players in Washington, DC. That includes the elected officials, unelected public servants, and the media, as well. As with the Plame scandal, we find that all too often, there are "behind the scenes" attempts to manipulate the public. There are private channels between government and the media, including the dangerous overlap between intelligence operatives and "journalists." Judith Miller is but one obvious example.

On 9/11, as documented in Senator Robert Byrd’s book "Losing America" and numerous other sources, Vice President Dick Cheney installed a "shadow government." Only one branch of the three mandated by our Constitution is represented: the executive branch. Senator Byrd noted that the members of Congress were not notified about the action by VP Cheney; they only found out the next spring, when they read stories about this in the Washington Post.

Progressive and liberal democrats have likely noticed a general failure on the part of Congress to exercise its oversight authority in regard to the administration, and to take stands that would protect the Constitution from any danger posed by either foreign or domestic powers.

The seat of power for the shadow government rested in the Office of the Vice President. Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld had gained enormous authority without the public’s knowledge or consent. As Joseph Wilson pointed out in his book, they created their own intelligence operations, which are beyond Congressional oversight. It was from this center of power that we can trace the lies about Iraqi WMD, such as the Niger yellow cake; the operation against Joseph and Valerie Wilson (which was called "Scooter’s black-op" within the White House); and also the neocon/AIPAC espionage scandal.

Last fall, the judge hearing the pretrial motions in the case of the two AIPAC intelligence operatives had allowed the defense request to subpoena 15 current or former top administration officials. These included Stephen Hadley, Richard Armitage, Marc Grossman, Paul Wolfowitz, and Douglas Feith. It also included Condi Rice.

These are people who have been involved at different levels in the Iraq war and the Plame scandal. Some, like Rice, had long-term relationships with one of the AIPAC defendants: Condi Rice worked at Rand Corporation along with Steven Rosen, who had a top-secret security clearance to work on projects for the CIA.

Had the espionage case continued to go forward, the federal courts might have exercised authority over the administration, unlike the Congress. However, recent events involving conflicts over witnesses and intelligence, has made it appear unlikely that the case will go forward. Certainly the Bush administration is unlikely to push to investigate itself.

The federal judge hearing the case, T.S. Ellis, appears to have done his part in derailing the prosecution. When we consider the 2008 elections, it is important to keep in mind that there is more than simply the next appointment to the US Supreme Court in play. Federal judges will be making decisions that will determine if the US Constitution will remain the foundation of of government, and if it will continue to provide protections to the citizens in this country.

The derailing of the case removes the most significant hurdle that Condi Rice faced in determining if she would continue to try to be a player in national politics. It was not a coincidence that when she faced being involved in the case, she told people that she was tired after serving in the two Bush2 terms, and has in the past couple of weeks decided otherwise.

John McCain has endorsed the "100 Year Plan" of the Bush-Cheney administration, in terms of remaining in Iraq. The neocon/AIPAC espionage scandal involved intelligence about the "threat" that Iran posed to the region.

The powers behind the scenes are absolutely opposed to allowing a democrat to be elected and to institute a significant shift in policy. They do not want to lose the White House, and the Office of the Vice President, which goes with it.

Expect to see further attempts to discredit Senator Barack Obama in areas related to the Bush-Cheney-McCain policy in Iraq, and to hear more about how Obama’s plans would allow Iran to become more dangerous than ever. These attempts to discredit and smear him will include the rants from the journalists who have been lying to us for years, as well as people posing as "concerned" democrats on the internet. Count on those lies, no matter if Rice is forced on McCain, or not.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. If McCain picks Rice, it'll double his chances against Obama or Clinton.
If you think Dems went too far going ga-ga over Barack,
just wait til you see how the GOP goes all googly woogly over Condi-liar Rice.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Not all
there are still many racists in the GOP, and they are concentrated in the South. To put Rice on the ticket, especially if Obama is our nominee, will drive those voters to third parties, and may put some Southern states into play.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I agree and factor in the solidarity Clinton's negatives give the GOP
it's a one-two punch
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Clinton's 'negatives' work for another Dem. Obama's 'negatives' work for the GOP.
Hillary's IRW vote isn't something that the GOP can use against her. Swiftboating her on race worked for Obama, but McCain won't go there. Democrats don't care about Pastor "God DAMN America!" Wright, or Michelle "I've never been proud to be an American before now" Obama. But watch how the GOP will run with that stuff.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Clinton does have one rather large negative that you missed.
She lost.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. Uhm
As much as I dislike both Democratic candidates (and will probably vote for them or at least NEVER ever vote for a repug-nik) I have to say, in all honesty, most of Hilary's national negatives are not from Democrats upset at her IWR vote, but from Republicans and repug leaners longstanding disdain for all things Clinton.

We gave up our substantive candidates for personality, media dazzle, and name recognition, and we are far poorer for it.
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. wrong. What republicans do well=use race against democrats (Harold Ford). what...
republicans don't do well=motivate their own electorate with black candidates (Lynn Swann, PA)
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. I disagree. For every 1 voter lured because of Rice, he loses 10 from the racist base
The Southern Strategy has been vital to them since Nixon. Not as much, but still vital. They need the racist asshole vote to shore up the numbers and Rice would hurt them.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
50. it will be like.......
white on Rice.

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. I count on the GOP to pull every dirty trick in the book
But since I'm already seeing racism coming into play here in the South, I don't think the GOP will have Rice as VP--they are counting on racist votes to help them win in the South, and Rice would probably make all of those folks vote third party.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. There are very
different dynamics involved in the democrats running a black man for president, and the republicans (possibly) running a black woman for vice president.
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. The election of two war mongers will insure America's sons & daughters dying for decades
America won't vote for endless wars this time.
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DangerousRhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
51. I really hope not...
Sometimes I'm not sure how I feel about this McSame/Rice combo. On one hand, it could be a problem for us. On the other hand, and if we play our cards right, it can make McBush's chances so much less than what they are now. To be honest, it makes me more nervous about the future of our brave men and women in Iraq.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe one of the things that will be interesting is whether
Republicans have as big a problem as "Some" Democrats have had about having a Black person on a presidential Ticket.

Maybe we will find out that Republicans are much more concerned about winning then they are about being racially prejudiced. That might be an interesting thing for "some" Democrats to think about.
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tyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Condi Rice is not
"actively campaigning for VP". Period. This is a lie that is being floated for a reason. It's being floated by a an ex-spokesman for coalition forces in Iraq...a gov employee on Stephanopolus.

It is preemtive campaign strategy. When (not if but when) the repubs let loose (during the GE) with their blatently racist comments they can use this lie as part of their argument. IOW, "We're not racist...hell, we were even thinking about running an AA woman on our ticket..does that sound racist to you?".

Don't bite.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I believe that simple folks aren't gonna come up with this sophisticated
scenario.

It helps Obama in the sense that rank and file Republicans will be encouraged to consider Rice, and just in them doing that, it lessens their prejudice on the topic of African-Americans possibly rising to the top of the ranks.

We know that quite a few Democrats are racists.....and so I wouldn't be surprised that some Repugs are too....

Still all in all, whatever the "trick" is, it is a positive for those who don't go into the conspiracy details of elections like you do.
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tyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I disagree.
About the only thing that the right-wing machine does well is that they know about their electorate and plan accordingly. They know damn well that their pundits and advisors will slip with some real juicy racists rants...and it'll get caught on camera. They know this.

They are laying the groundwork for future denials. This won't be the only one.

On the flip-side....we'll we seeing Fox News doing an enormous amount of specials and programs about angry blacks...over and over and over again. Fear.



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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Actually It Has Been Ramped Up
by her courting of Grover Norquist and as reported on This Week, a Lieberman statement, as quoted by George Will, that allowed for the possibility of her as a contender.
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tyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Not so.
While she was "courting" Norquist she said flat out that she was in no way, shape, or form interested in running for VP.

This is all a lie being floated for future use.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Yes, She & This Admin Have Such A Record Of Truthfulness
Lie becomes an even bigger word when used by those who never tell the truth in the first place. Maybe she just can't imagine it, like planes flying into buildings.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Right.
The republican primary showed that there are competing factions within their party. The nasty little anti-Mitt ad from the weekend suggests that the competition extends to the possible VP choices.

One group is definitely promoting the idea of Condi for VP. There is no serious debate about that.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Having Rice on the Rep ticket could negate any effort to make race an issue in Nov.
I see that as helping Obama.
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chapel hill dem Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I agree. Given McCain's health and age, we would have a black POTUS by 2012
regardless of the November outcome, assuming HRC does not win the super-delegate fight.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. About Time We Stared Discussing RepubliCons
and this particular subject matter. We should be marshalling our forces. They certainly are.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. It is.
I would think it is safe to say that democrats are interested in moving the discussion towards the subject of the fall election, and non-democrats will go to great lengths to distract us from that, and try to keep the primary fights brewing.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. Keeping a loyal Neocon close to the source of power.
That's what this is all about....
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That is exactly
what it is about.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Remember those 70s pictures of Rumsfeld and Cheney flanking Ford?
Yep...they're PNAC vultures.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Chuck Todd Talking About Her Qualifications
saying he considers her a roll of the dice. Has never run for an election. He considers her untested.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. She is not
the typical republican candidate for VP, in terms of being considered/promoted as a potential VP for an older presidential candidate. But the republicans did elect a fellow named Dan Quayle. (No JFK, he.)
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. Talking About It On CNN Now
Saying it would bind McCain even tighter to *'s Iraq policy and make the case for McSame. He says if she;s sending signals he has missed them.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Right.
He is trying to be polite in saying, "Thanks, but no thanks." Problem is, once you sell your soul in the manner he has, other people play a role in calling the shots. There are competing factions in the party, and of these, some have more juice than others.

It's interesting: a few DUers have mentioned the possible negative reaction of the racists in the republican party. But let's think this through. The southern white racists didn't go out lynching black women for having relationships with white men. The fact is that the white racists had very different opinions on race relations when it came to black women.

More, when we think of Martin Luther King, Jr. -- and the History Channel special on King last night featured Condi -- the white racists who opposed his civil rights movement were very different from the powers that opposed his anti-war activities in his final years. The people who wore white hoods and dynamited churches aren't running the republican party today. More, the army was not keeping watch on King when he wanted to drink from a "white" water fountain, but they were when he went to Memphis. The national leaders who operate from behind the scenes make the big decisions for their party.

Condi has been put in positions including National Security Advisor and Secretary of State. In case there is any confusion, it was the republican party that promoted her to these positions, not the democrats.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. doubtful, she is seen as an architect of Iraq...
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. We'll take note of that. Good article.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. I don't think the neocons will trust her to do Cheney's job. But they might trust her to do Quayle's
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I think that
Condi Rice has been one of the administration's most valuable team players. She has, along with Cheney, shared the duties of supervising the president.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
26. What the GOP should do
If the GOP wants to counter the effects of a black man and a white woman, they should just nominate Michael Jackson.
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tyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. Look
Let's look at the facts. Has Condi been actively campaigning for VP? No. She hasn't. That's a lie.

Okay, since it IS a lie, what possible reason would a right-wing spokesman have for floating that lie? It's not because it's a serious consideration.

It's laying the groundwork for future use. Pure Rovian. Nothing more nothing less.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
31. Condi is Pro Choice.
It's not going to happen, folks.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
34. I hope he does pick Rice.
Cause I wanna see her do some more squirming around trying to explain how even after an October 24, 2000 Pentagon-run mass casualty exercise, in which simulated crisis response in a scenario where a hijacked aircraft crashed into the Pentagon... and even after the PDB on August 6, 2001 entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S"... they still couldn't put 2 and 2 together.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I think that Obama
will beat McCain, no matter what the republicans do to try to strengthen the ticket. Considering the other options, I think that there is probably about a one-in-three chance that Rice will be the choice. While she would not unite all the groups within their party, no one else would, either.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Oh hell yeah! Condi Rice running for VP? Bring it on! THAT wiill be pure
entertainment.

So. Is she being tapped by McNasty or Hillarious?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Oh man...
I chuckled @ the idea of Clinton/Rice... yikes!

But yeah... I can't resist the entertainment value of Condi's verbal ballet of unaccountability. :P
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Bring it on!
With McSame and Kindasleezy running on the same ticket, the Dems could run Jojo the Dancing Monkey for President and win!
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. I think this is a replacement for McCain. n/t
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
40. Rice would be a win win for Obama; 1.) would make McSame closer to Bush, 2.) Woudl hold racist cons
...to the fire when talking about race...
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
44. she'll weigh the ticket down even more
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #44
53. That may be.
I always think in terms of the three groups: {a} those who always support you; {b} those who always oppose you; and {c} the undecided.

Condi being on McCain's ticket would make no difference in either Group A or Group B. I'm not sure if she would be more likely to weigh the ticket down with Group C. Certainly that is one possibility, but she could also give it a lift with some groups -- primarily women who might be upset that Senator Clinton lost to Barack Obama. The republicans are going to be looking to appeal to groups, much as they have when they targeted "soccer mmoms."

In what ways do you think she would hurt McCain with undecided voters? I'm not disagreeing with you -- at all -- I'm just wondering what areas you think she would hurt him in?
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #53
66. good points
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. A Vice President who can't travel for fear of arrest for war crimes might not be the best choice.
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 09:09 PM by billyoc
The Bush administration decision to grant itself domestic immunity from prosecution more or less requires the ICC/ICJ to investigate whether or not crimes were committed during the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Edited typo.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
46. It's a mute point now, if she's to be believed
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
47. Next to Abu Gonzalez Rice is been the second most incompetant person in the Bush admin.

McCain is going to pick the person who presided over National Security when one of the biggest terrorist attacks in US history slipped by us? All I can say is go ahead!
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
49. This is a wait and see. The floating Ms. Rice for V.P. is a trial balloon at best
Mr. McCain is more or less saying, 'vote for me is another 4 years of Bush Jr.' (talk about riding coattails). I can see the powers that be saying, "...yeah maybe! Condi V.P., but what about that..." With Ms. Rice as V.P., the international policy will be guaranteed another four years of Bush Jr. On the other hand, Ms. Rice has made many big mistakes in her service to the country. That could be a major problem for this ticket (a ticket of airheads).

On the other hand, this also could be the way for the Republicans to rid themselves of racist motif they have built-up over the years. Many will see this as a plus. Besides, for many Republicans, they will know what they are getting voting for McCain/Rice.

Besides, I can see not Ms. Clinton or Mr. Obama put some stick in the mud, like Joe Lieberman on the ticket with them to debate Condi. We known that Ms. Rice can talk B.S. with the best of them. The Democratic V.P. will have to be quick talker with a good memory and a great wit to put down Ms. Rice in a V.P. debate.



Note:
If Ms. Clinton brings a DLC buddy on the ticket with her to oppose McCain/Rice ticket; I believe that many voters will be confused (i.e. picking between the lesser of evils in this election. Just an opinion.)
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aaroh Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
52. obama > hillary >mccain >rice
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
54. Congressional hearings ....
I had kind of hoped that after people listened to some of the talk from the congressional hearing today, they would remember this thread. I think it raises serious issues, worthy of our discussion.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I think that
there is a group of folks with their eyes on expanding upon the neoconservative plan for the Middle East. Today's hearing seemed to lend support to that.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
56. If Rice is the VP choice McCain is doomed.
Bottom line, "Bush's Secretary of State".

No other factor is going to overcome that. They'd be handing the Democratic candidate the "this is Bush term #3" public confirmation on a silver platter. They'd have to be insane to do that considering Bush's approval ratings. I'm astounded anyone is even entertaining the idea as a serious possibility... although I'd love it if they lost their collective minds and actually went that route.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. In the past three days
the corporate media has been pushing two concepts: {1} That the general public, while opposed to the war in Iraq in general, trusts McCain far more than they trust either Clinton or Obama on the future US commitment to that country; {2} That the "surge" -- which was advocated by McCain -- is a success; {3} That if the US begins to withdraw in the manner advocated by Clinton and Obama, it will result in (a) chaos in Iraq and (b) damage to US national security; and {4} That Condi Rice is interested in serving as McCain's VP.

McCain has already made clear that if elected, his administration will continue the current policy in Iraq, and will keep a close eye on what they call the growing problems with Iran.

I think it is possible that there will be more pressure put on McCain to put Condi on his ticket. And I think it is possible that he will. And, of course, its more likely at this point he will resist efforts to place her in as VP.

Either way, I think that Barack Obama will defeat John McCain. I do think that the idea of Condi, or anyone like her, being in a McCain administration is more worthy of DUers attention than some of the other things debated daily on this forum. It should be enough for people to realize that we really do have more in common -- a common enemy -- than that which divides us.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
57. in the words of The Giggling Murderer- "Bring 'Er On!!"
Edited on Tue Apr-08-08 07:08 PM by stlsaxman
Her ONLY accomplishment is The Iraq War. Period.

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
58. The Nazi Christian Right will never vote for a lesbian.
Condi Rice's sexual orientation has been winked at by many Republicans who practice "don't ask, don't tell" with Condi, but let's get real: she is a lesbian.

Condi owns her home here in California with her mate and have title together.

As a gay guy, it is very troubling to see how much this woman will compromise who she is for raw ambition. The sad fact is that she is a very disturbed individual and she has the blood of children all over her hands.

McCain will not pick Condi. He'd lose the entire southern base of the Republican Party in a nanosecond if he did. White southern Republican men are not going to vote for a 1.) homosexual 2.) black 3.) woman. No matter how much she sucks up to the Nazis. It will never happen.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. While I understand
what you are saying, I also am very aware that Condi Rice has served as national security adviser and secretary of state. She has been the darling of the very people that, if we applied the "logic" of the rabid right wing, should be counted on to despise her.

I think there is a 1 in 3 chance of her being the VP. But I appreciate that other people have good reason to think that I'm wrong.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Actually, I think McCain may pick her.
I don't think you are wrong about her having a good shot at being the nominee.

Republicans are simplistic enough to think: the Democrats will have a woman and an African-American on their ticket, so we can target the same demographic vote with Condi. That's how they think. And there is a lot of talk about Condi. Especially from the Bush family because she's in on their crimes as much

However, that said if she was to be on the ticket: the base of the Republican Party's electoral math would simply melt away from them: Southern, white fundamentalist bigots. It matters not that she loves the oil industry and that she is a Bush toadie, they will not vote for a black homosexual woman. And her homosexuality will come out if she were the nominee. Jame Dobson will go crazy.

I hope he picks her. We sweep the country.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. What is interesting
is how the various factions are attempting to gain some position with McCain. And the most valued position is the OVP. That is almost funny, when you think of how the position used to be considered as not entirely attractive. In modern times, a few VPs had some power .... actually, LBJ told people that Kennedy treated him better than other VPs had been treated. Yet it frustrated Johnson to be VP.

Gore had been able to make the position more "high profile." Yet Cheney, by going low-profile, became far more powerful than the position is supposed to be.

The two groups that combined in the Cheney OVP -- the neoconservatives and those who allied with them from 1988 to present -- need to keep that seat of power. And when we look at their other players, it is difficult to identify anyone else they can promote for that position.

I also hope that he picks her. I think it could help us define who our real enemies are. And I think that Obama is going to beat McCain, no matter who the republican VP is.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Are you sure about that? You know, that she's a (gulp) lesbian?
Edited on Tue Apr-08-08 07:33 PM by Major Hogwash
I've never heard any story ever talk about Rice's sexual orientation.

If you could give me just 1 link to any reasonable newspaper article that discussed her sexual orientation, I would appreciate it.
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
61. Rice said today she is going back to Stanford and isn't interested.
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
64. You know, Mccain willl be hard to beat just because he was a POW imo.
Edited on Tue Apr-08-08 07:36 PM by loveangelc
Plus, it's hard for me to be really upset about him. I just don't have the dislike of him the same way I have of Bush or I would of a person like Romney or Giuliani. idk.......I think Dems will win but it will be close.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
67. They're trying to get the Democrats to push to put Clinton on the ticket.
Rice will not be on the Republican ticket.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
68. McCain seems none to bright to me and his political instincts are at best
unexceptional.

I think Rice will be floated and then passed up. McCain strikes me as someone who would want an entirely malleable figure in the veep slot. I think Condiliar is not what he's looking for.

Also a Rice addition to the ticket reinforces the pro-Surge Iraq disaster quotient that McCain by all counts should be unable to escape. We need to pin that on him hard, early, and deep so as to render him compromised in the public eye as a foreign policy "expert." His choosing Condiliar would be an endorsement of what has failed. I think the political risk is too great and that McCain's handlers will short-list her for public relations purposes and then ultimately choose someone else.

I think he picks Tim Pawlenty of MN, Rob Portman of OH, or even Jim Talent of MO. They're white guys from pivotal states who will not repel independents.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. I think that events
in the summer months in the Middle East will make the neoconservative effort to place Rice as VP more likely than it may seem today.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. That's possible. Certainly my bias against her shows in everything I
post about her.

I will begrudgingly give credit to Republicans if they do even one little thing right. So far Condi is proving the rule, though.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. One of the strange
things I notice on the MSNBC program "Morning Joe" is that Joe S. is assuring the audience that all Americans -- democrats and republicans alike -- trust John McCain on Iraq more than they trust Clinton or Obama. And the co-host Mika meekly says yes, that's true.

More, McCain has not only embraced the Cheney doctrine of a century of occupation for Iraq, but is also making it clear that he believes the Iranians are our enemy in the Middle East. He isn't going to try to distance himself from the current administration policies.

I consider Rice to be as criminal as any of the rest of the current administration. I think it is a shame that she has not had any consequence for her abuses of power. And no matter if she is or isn't on the republican ticket, I am confident that the democratic candidate will win convincingly in November.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
71. Just what we need ...another lair for vp like Cheney.
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