Hillary Grapples With WAR

[Ichingcarpenter]

[JVS]

1. It's so true.

In 2004 a lot of people were pissed off that Kerry had voted for the IWR. This year sentiment is finally to the level where we can drive IWR voters out of the race.

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. Yeah, we lost Dennis who was against it from the first (media)

then Edwards, that lost it being blinded by loss of power
of the wrong choice. He admitted he made a wrong choice
but when he bowed out, without a word on why,
he left a bad taste in my political life.

At least Obama (and Dennis) did the right thing from the start, when it wasn't
politically expedient or popular when others choose the wrong
goblet of political life to drink from. Then they look around now,
and wonder what the fuck happened and blame others
for their choices.

Now WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING WITH THE IMPEACHMENT OF CHENEY?
Thank you Dennis for fighting in Congress without Democratic leaders support
and making that happen.

Conyers? Can you hear me from those three rivers that made your city or are you
just on the banks of Potomac now?

[karynnj]

10. Kerry won the anti-war vote in the primaries

Both Kerry and HRC voted for the IWR, but the similarity ends there. Kerry, not HRC had been a voice in summer 2002 against Bush unilaterally taking us to was based on the terror authorization. HRC is now claiming that her vote was for the reasons Kerry ennumerated in his IWR speech - but Kerry said that if Bush backed away from following the process he had said he would follow, he would be the first to speak out - and he did speak out - including a major speech on January 23 - HRC didn't. He is on record as being against invading before the invasions. (Once we were in, we needed a strategy - which he spoke of at NYU in early September 2004. His plan would likely have had a withdrawal starting in late 2005.)

In addition, Kerry's Iraq plans have had very consistent components - changing as things have changed on the ground. He spoke against permanent bases - in the first debate with Bush - the first time I ever heard there was such an issue. He called for Rumsfeld's resignation in 2003 and again in 2004, when details of Abu Ghraib came out. HRC was silent then on both.

Kerry has consistently led with other Democrats who wanted an exit plan - HRC vilified him behind the scenes.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. I believe as a Nation

We are looking at an epiphany or examination of our National Soul.
That hasn't happened in a long time. I would put this back to the Civil War
in its historical significance.

Either the American dream has been taken over by the Corporations
TV channels, and personal gratification or there is another
American dream that I remember.

TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE AMERICAN WAY, were not shallow words to me growing up
that made the works of Jefferson, Washington and Adams, not a Cartoon description
of a Pretense of the two hundred and fifty and more years my families has spent choosing
to come to this continent and country.
Nor it was for your ancestors

The Thing is.............. We were the first Nation
to perceive the environment in the form of National Natural Parks,
but my Native American ancestors already did that.

[polpilot]

8. Honorable, decent Americans MUST lead the way to regain our very souls. McCain HAS to be slapped

down, rebuked unapologetically, chastised, in his face, told clearly that he and the promoters of death & destruction are 'war-mongers' and WRONG and point out that 99% of the world's population are APPALLED at our invasion and destruction of Iraq. I would stand on that stage with McCain and calmly state that I was sorry that his life had to include being a prisoner of war in a war that intelligent beings knew and know should never have occurred. That 'I am sorry that you don't understand that we should never have destroyed Iraq and waged war on this nation but Mr. McCain people like you and the followers and supporters of this war have to be stopped. Your lack of understanding is not a license to kill. It's over, Mr. McCain. It's over.'

[AtomicKitten]

4. Now is the time for people that were appalled by the IWR to weigh in.

The IWR was Pandora's Box, ceded by a compliant Congress that abdicated their war-declaring powers to an idiot, opening us up to an illegal, immoral war, the death of hundreds of thousands, torture, rendition, habeas corpus and other civil liberties gone, illegal wire-tapping and snooping, politicization and privatization of government, looting of the Treasury, and epic fear-mongering.

Just say no those that said yes on the IWR.

[Life Long Dem]

5. Nothing but excuses. n/t

[babylonsister]

6. Ouch. nt

[Ian_rd]

7. Perfect imagery. She doesn't even notice or care what she is sitting on.

Like whenever reporters comment on the troop deaths to White House spokesmodels - It's met with rolling eyes and derision.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

9. Deadly.

[crankychatter]

11. grizzelly graphic

there are more votes than the IWV to justify it though

it hurts but this is why she's failing, period