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An Olive Branch.... Just don't shoot the Dove please...

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:31 PM
Original message
An Olive Branch.... Just don't shoot the Dove please...
So a person I'm close to on DU (well close for the internet anyway) made me look at something from another perspective today. I made them a promise and want to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass. I'm seeking the help of my fellow Obama supporters.

The lines have been drawn, we are spinning our wheels, no one is going to convince me to switch allegiances and I'm not going to convince anyone else. What I would like to do is see if DU'ers are willing to let it all go at some point and get behind the Dem candidate in August or whenever they are selected.

My friend has serious reservations about Obama's ties to homophobes. While I may not understand it the way they do I can make a promise to all in the GLBT community, as can the rest of the Obama supporters. We have your back.

It doesn't seem like much in this climate but I, and I would hope the rest of the Obama supporters, would like to say that no matter who gets into office we still believe in equal rights for all, we aren't about to let any administration reverse any gains made, or sit on their asses doing nothing when it comes to equal rights for the GLBT community. DU has always been vigilant in it's support of gay rights and I would hope that people don't let their support for their candidate get in the way of their common sense.


Of course this is all just MHO FWIW. Which these day's isn't much...

P.P.S. I've given and received my quota of petty insults for one day, so please, give me a break and don't shoot the dove.

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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here's the thing about that --
Call it a gut response from decades of being involved in LGBT rights.

On LGBT I trust Hillary to make some very small steps forward for LGBT rights.

I trust Obama to not move us backwards from where we are.

I trust McCain to take away what few rights we do have.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Ok, you would know better than me
at least we have a jumping off point. I realize I'm not going to change anyones mind. What my post said, or what I thought it said was, if I was wrong and Obama turned out to be a guy who was going to sit on his ass about gay rights that I would do what I could to make sure he didn't get away with it. You want to march? I'm there. Donations? I'm there. Petitions? I'm there. Help? I'm there(I've done a bit of work with the gay community in Denver). Whatever you guys need. I'm right behind you.

That's all this was, a way to say I understand that you can't vote for Obama in the primary but if you are stuck with him in the general, I will do whatever I can to ease your burden. That's all.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I think that DOMA and DADT will be repealed under both Obama and Clinton. I don't think that McCain
gives a rat's ass about us.

I think civil unions will be on the table under both dems, but it will be up to us to hold their feet to the fire. Unless we stick together and keep that issue at the forefront, I don't think Hillary or Barack will be rushing out to pass legislation about civil unions.

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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm an Obama supporter and GLBT rights one of my top issues.
While I, myself, am not a lesbian, most of the people that I Iove in my life represent one of the letters in GLBT, it's not a matter of if, but when, civil rights for the GLBT community are recognized in this country.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Um hellz yes!!
I protested to keep marriage equality alive in my state (and we won!!!1!), wrote and called my legislators, etc. I'm in the tank for GLBT rights, mostly of all marriage equality. :thumbsup:
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Both candidates associate with homophobes
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 09:43 PM by SunsetDreams
I fully support equal rights for everyone, and I will back GLBT to the fullest.

What I'm having trouble with is this: How can we expect either candidate to ignore homophobes, while trying to uphold GLBT issues, and get laws passed? Are they not going to need to talk to homophobes also and convince them?

I don't think we should be exluding anyone in America from having their voices heard in a Democracy that is trying to bring about change.

We should not blame Hillary or Obama.

We should try and fix the mindset that got us there in the first place, and that would include seeking tolerance at a minimum, from homophobes.

Obama believes in the Constitution of the United States, and will seek equal rights for all.
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's sad that this has to be brought up, an issue that at any other time would be a no brainer
for DU. What DU has brought together, let no primary tear asunder.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. And just a few short weeks ago
I accidentally insulted the entire GLBT community by saying GBLT. I forgot to apologize for that, and I apologize now.

Some of my good friends are gay, and I respect their rights - I'm pro-gay.

Hawkeye-X
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I always used to have to go back through my threads and fix that
It's the Bacon Lettuce and Tomato thing, force of habit, I finally got to a point where now GLBT is habit... Did someone really get upset? Is that an insult?
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. It wasn't really offensive, I'm sure. I know some people in the T category who joke about being
the last, so sometimes people change the order for that reason. Its not serious. Maybe someone just wanted to make a jab because they thought it meant that you aren't familiar with the issues...and that you, therefore, don't care. Don't worry. Just speak in good faith and most of us will give you the benefit of the doubt. I think we are just very sensitive about these things because we are afraid of being thrown under the bus. 2004 was pretty bad.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. Oh fuck, you really think that saying GBLT is what got people pissed off at you?
Seriously man, you got McClurkin's name wrong, and basically made a fucking cheap shot against GLBT people with your post! You're about as pro-gay as Robertson, take your apology and shove it up your ass!

Oh, and for reference, here's your post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. I don't see why you're upset at that post
The poster was calling bullshit on using the association against Sen Obama and just got the name wrong. What's the problem?
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sign me up, please.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm hoping that Obama will make domestic partnerships/civil unions federally recognized
I'm convinced that those first steps will get enacted in his first term. I will do what I can to make it happen.

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. I guess I should have called this the
Lead Balloon thread.. I'm not surprised... sad, but not surprised..
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm an Obama supporter and I want NOTHING LESS than full equality, including marriage rights, for
my GLBT friends and this nation's GLBT citizens.

Unfortunately, neither of our two remaining candidates are there yet.

Put ME on the ballot, I promise to include "Don't like Gay Marriage? Then don't have one, Jackass" in my policy statements.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I don't think it will happen. Civil unions, yes, but not marriage. I'm fine with that because I
think marriage should be the business of the church. Maybe more and more secular people will start having civil unions instead of marriages. If some bigots want to keep that stupid word "marriage" all to themselves, fine. I just want the same rights and privileges that come with marriage and I don't care what its called. I know that there will always be people who hate us. Guess what? People can get on their radio shows or stand in front of their churches and say whatever they want about us. Like I said, all I want for my partner and I is the same rights and privileges as a married straight couple.
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RichardRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. As I am a solitaire, straight, white, old, male, Buddhist...
I don't really have a dog in the fight: I'm not marrying any one of any gender, and if I did, I don't know what a Buddhist marriage ceremony even looks like in my tradition! Still, it is clearly any issue of equity.

To the extent I can make any statement whatsoever, yep, what you say makes sense to me. 'Marriage' belongs in church; it makes no sense to me that the state has ever even gotten involved, and certainly no sense that there are any legal rights or privileges dependent on being 'married' in a church.


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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I think my opinions on this were formed after living in Russia and Spain. Russia's wedding
ceremonies are done in a govt buliding called the Palace of Weddings. If the couple want to go to the church after the ceremony, that's their business. It doesn't affect the rights and privileges they get after their state ceremony.

Spain, of course, has gay marriage. But its still a state thing. Like visiting a Justice of the Peace.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. It's still a state thing. Of course, because we're talking about legal marriage.
Religious institutions- like the Catholic Church- wouldn't have to marry anyone they don't want to, any more than they do now. Hell, it's legal for divorced people to re-marry legally, but I don't think they can get religiously "married" by the catholic church.

People want to conflate the two, but they're two different things called the same word.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. But the state is already involved, and the legal rights are not dependent upon any church.
Atheists can get married. Heterosexual couples can get married, legally, at city hall. It has nothing to do with churches or anything of the sort.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, the Catholic Church doesn't "permit" divorced people to remarry any more than they permit gay couples to; but that has no bearing on whether divorced people can LEGALLY wed.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. Yes, but you know what? Marriage is already a secular as well as church institution. Too late.
I respect the desire to have equivalent legal rights and not care what they're called, though. As a straight married person, it's not really my place to expect that you wait until people are 'ready' to accept gays being -gasp!- "married". My take is, full equality. No apologies. Personally, I think the bigots can fuck off. Other peoples' lives aren't their business.

And the joke is on them, anyway- because gays and lesbians can ALREADY get "married" in certain religious institutions. Oh noes! :rofl:
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JayFredMuggs Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I would not have a problem with univeral rights to monogamous marriage
Period.

Let's get this done, soon. None of this Hillary "let the states decide" crap.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. Wait a second!
Who said anything about being monogamous?

Cheating is as American as apple pie! ;-)
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. Great post.
:thumbsup:
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DLnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Absolutely.
Whoever gets nominated, I will demand that that person actively fight against all tendencies in this society to marginalize, stigmatize, abuse, scapegoat or in any way mistreat any person anywhere because of their sexual orientation.

Good post. It is important not to let fear and suspiscion divide us.
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JayFredMuggs Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Good concept here
Let's make sure that while some people insult each other for supporting Hillary or Obama, the real people to suffer are not the middle class white politically enfranchised....

Those whose rights are constantly trampled upon, GLBT, poor, people of color, those are the reasons we are Democrats, not just for ourselves, but for those others.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. My hope is that Obama will move the country more to the left.
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 10:56 PM by anonymous171
Which will make Full Marriage Equality a reality.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Can we get one more rec, so this thread has more exposure on the greatest?
Thanks.

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IndependentDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. just rec'd it.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Thank you so much. n/t
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IndependentDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. i think that anyone that would not agree to this should...
take a serious look at their party affiliation. IMO, equal rights for the GLBT community should be a no-brainer for anyone that considers themselves a democrat. We are all humans, we should all have the same legal rights. period.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
30. I might give you a break, other Obama supporters, on the other hand...
not so much. With all the claims of "faux outrage" to many saying McClurkin was "raised to believe that way", or just being completely oblivious as to why the actions of the Obama Campaign were offensive, a lot of people on this board, many Obama supporters and even some Clinton supporters, have shown themselves to be no friend to GLBT people at all. Many comments bordered on the homophobic, and those that did go over to that side ended up being deleted and quite a few ended up getting TSed for that shit. Others have squeaked by, but mostly by ignoring these types of threads entirely.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
31. Does this mean you think Obama should reject and denounce Donnie McClurkin's support?
Because he spreads the idea that homosexual orientation is some kind of sickness that can be cured?

Just asking ... :eyes:
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Mezzo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
34. Who is the "we" in "we have your backs"?
I started out Edwards, and had to decide between the two of them. A lifelong theatre girl, I was shocked at BO's winky wonky anti gay stance. He refuses to get his picture taken with Gavin Newsome in spite of the fact that Newsome has attended three or four fundraisers for BO. BO shared the stage with homophobe McClurkin, and TRUST ME there was no big reconciling gay speech that followed.

So, please tell me who the "we" is, in "we got your back" with the BO campaign. It's been all sizzle, no steak, and I wish I were wrong about that. I'm straight, but not narrow, and I refuse to turn my back on my gay brothers and sisters when there is a perfectly viable alternative staring me right in the face.



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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Not you.
I guess...

I post a unity thread and you come in to slam Obama.. piss off.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
36. Nice post.
I have always supported gay rights and have attended plenty of meetings and rallies where I'm the token straight female in the group. I have many gay friends and most of them have more faith in Hillary than Obama when it comes to GLBT issues.

Nevertheless, I do hope that whoever gets into the WH supports the GLBT community and does all he/she can to advance their cause.
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