As progressives: What should we say when somebody tells us “Obama is a Muslim”?

[DerekJ]

Some people here came across people that are not going to vote for Obama because they think he is a Muslim. I believe we should say: “So what?!”, and proceed with clarifying the truth, while asserting, that even if he is, we are still voting for him.

You can’t end bigotry by giving those people the sign that you are also against the Idea of a Muslim as a president. It just reaffirms it.

[MADem]

1. How can he be a Muslim when his crazyass Pastor is from the United Church of CHRIST???

Ya can't have it BOTH ways!!!!

[DerekJ]

8. See post #7.

[MADem]

16. My point stands--it's not the United Mosque of Muhamad, it's the United Church of Christ. NT

[DerekJ]

19. I am not disputing your point. I am showing that I am arguing something completely different.

never mind
:hi:

[MADem]

23. The "not that there's anything WRONG with that" argument doesn't fly with anyone who

cares in the first place what he is or isn't, that's my point. If it bothers them enough to worry about it, they're bigots who need to be confronted a bit.

You've got to make it "unambiguous" to people who ask, because they will no doubt drag in the "wise is the man who knows his own father" routine (if your dad is Muslim, you are Muslim) which applies in other cultural settings.

I support Clinton, but I don't go for this faux "besmirching" using Islam. It ticks me off.

[sudopod]

53. You're good people. ^_^ nt

[RBInMaine]

67. Your comment is as blunt-headed as they come.

[MADem]

72. I've expounded in greater detail elsewhere in this thread.

Between people running into folks thinking he's "Arab" (on another thread) and thinking that all Arabs are Muslim, I get a lot of excercise rolling my eyes on this topic lately.

There's plenty to pick on when it comes to Obama (his choice of Rev Wright as a pastor being one aspect), but I get irritated when people call him a Muslim like that term is the equivalent of "shithead" or something, and react to it as a "slur."

Really--is "Christian" or "Jew" a slur? "Can't trust THAT bastard, he's a Presbyterian!!!" or "Watch your wallet, there are Lutherans nearby..."

As Ricky sez to Lucy: It's Just So RiDEEEEEEEculous.

[GoldieAZ49]

76. Question is

which would be considered worse?

:rofl:

[JoFerret]

79. Shia or Shiite?

Actually - he is secretly Jewish.

[flor de jasmim]

2. Maybe clarify first then say "so what"... otherwise they may stop listening after the "so what"

[ColbertWatcher]

3. He isn't a muslim, not that there's anything wrong with that. n/t

[DerekJ]

7. I am not saying he is. I am saying, you should clarify that he isn't, stating the truth. But

People rush into defending him against this “heinous allegation”, as if it’s a crime to be one.

[ColbertWatcher]

11. Keep it light.

Make a joke of it.

Laugh at what was said, but be sure not to laugh at the person saying it.

BTW, for those who might not know, my suggestion was a quote from the http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098904/">Seinfeld show.

[joeprogressive]

18. It is a heinous allegation because it is a bald faced lie. My response would be:

"no, he is not a Muslim but now that I know you are a bigot I can understand why you are not voting for him."

[MADem]

45. Heinous? What do you have against Muslims?

In many Muslim cultures abroad, if your father is a Muslim, you are as well. It's a conferred faith, if you will.

Here, in America, we choose our own religions, or none at all.

To assume that the assumption is "heinous" says more about you than perhaps you realized or intended. There's nothing heinous about being called a Muslim, any more than there is to be called a Christian, or a Jew, or a Buddhist.

If you want to speak to "context," that's another thing. If people are making the allegation to somehow suggest he's "one of THOSE Osama-ish Muslims" well, that's bullshit and it is offensive. But the statement, absent that context, is NOT offensive. But Muhamad Ali is a Muslim. So's Karim Abdul Jabbar. Anwar Sadat was a Muslim. So was Benazir Bhutto...

Are they "heinous?"

You might not realize how offensive your comment is, that calling Obama is Muslim is automatically "heinous"--but it is offensive.

[Life Long Dem]

46. It's a religion.

My father is a Protestant, but I'm a Catholic, same as my mother.

[Warren DeMontague]

4. "I'm sorry, I don't speak total fucking moron."

"perhaps you can get Ted Nugent to translate for us?"

[ColbertWatcher]

5. You can't judge a man by his name. After all...

...Jesus wasn't a Mexican.

[DeeDeeNY]

47. . . .

:rofl:

[alphafemale]

6. Those people would never vote for a democrat anyway.

I mean you can point out that a Muslim probably wouldn't be a member of the United Church of Christ but your words will not reach their brain.

[EFerrari]

9. Who here "comes across" as someone who would not vote for a Muslim?

[DerekJ]

Not on DU. ( Although I have seen couple)

I am talking about a post like this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5304189

[EFerrari]

13. I'm a liberal. I don't spend much time worrying about bigots. n/t

[MADem]

17. The OP says people came across (as in encountered) people who wouldn't vote

for a Muslim--not that people here wouldn't so do.

There are a couple of threads up that talk about this. One was a roommate's mother, not a DUer.

[JoFerret]

25. Rather like

There are some people who believe the US government created AIDS to kill black people. What should I tell them about roosting chickens?

[MADem]

41. No, not "believe." The use of the term "come across" was NOT in that context.

In the OP, the use of the term "come across" was as in "encountered." Physical contact, not a belief system.

Examples:

I came across a lost child who was walking along the road.

As I searched the vehicle, I came across three weapons and a half ounce of a powdery substance.

While looking in the file for that receipt, I came across a damning letter.

[JoFerret]

56. Well Obama "comes across" to me

as a born-again and full of rather creepy religiosity. To me that does not bode well for the values I hold dear.

Praying and deliverance are not a substitute for freedom and rights.

"Hate the sin, love the sinner" creeps me out "big time". (Sorry to bring back an echo of a TRULY sick person - Cheney)

[MADem]

57. To me, he's simply inauthentic.

I get that "Reagan BSer" feeling when I hear him speak. It's like being in the presence of a really talented con man who isn't all bad, but looks out for number one.

[JoFerret]

64. "Inauthentic"

to me too. Maybe it is the religiosity. Maybe the preachiness. Maybe the "followers". But certainly the policies and proposals.

It will be interesting to watch how Michele Obama does under the klieg lights of media scrutiny. I think she may have a rather insular world view that will not travel well.

But she is not running he is. And he already has plenty of "issues' to my mind. If he wins then the progressive wing of the party will have lost its best advocate/ fighter in a generation.

[IntravenousDemilo]

10. "No, he's not." n/m

[ColbertWatcher]

12. Okay, since no one is getting my jokes...

...here is a serious answer.

Make it personal.

Ask the person if anyone had ever judged them based on something superficial, like their name. Or something they couldn't control, like the name their parents gave them.

Turn the conversation around, so they are answering the question themselves.

And the question is: why does it matter what religion Obama is?

[emanymton]

14. "Ya. And The Pope Is A Jew No Doubt."

.

Then get way from the person. The people who claim "Obama is a Muslim" will not vote for him anyway. This is their excuse, not their reason.

.

[DerekJ]

15. Yes but we shouldn't stop at that.

Bigotry gets diminished when a large section of the society voice their intolerance to it.

[emanymton]

20. At This Stage ...

.

The person making the claim "Obama is a Muslim," will not change. They are too far gone. Any effort to express intolerance to bigotry only reinforces ignorance.

The solution, get away.

.

[sandnsea]

21. Did you hear that on Fox or Limbaugh?

Whereever you heard it, you need a new news source. That's what we ought to say.

[DerekJ]

24. Did you read the OP?

[sandnsea]

26. No, I just typed shit randomly

Is that what you think?

People who believe Obama is a Muslim have an unreliable news source. THAT is the core of the problem so you may as well get to the point.

[DerekJ]

29. What point?!!

[sandnsea]

33. It's your OP

Maybe the problem you're having communicating to people about Islam is more your problem than anybody else's.

[DerekJ]

34. sandnsea, I am honestly puzzled!! May be I am slow now because I haven't slept (Night shift)

Just explain to me, what exactly did I say that offended you?!

[sandnsea]

37. I'm not offended

You really must be puzzled. :shrug:

[DerekJ]

40. Oh Boy!! Sorry, I got it now.

You didn't put your answer in Quotes, so I thought you are talking to me.

Sorrry :hi:
I am really stupid now.

[JoFerret]

22. I would say: Unfortunately he is not an atheist

He turned his back on his roots and is a born-again Christian.
It's very unfortunate but there it is.

[EFerrari]

27. After reading over this forum, ciao to you to.

You two can talk to each other on my ignore list!

[DerekJ]

30. What did I say wrong?!!!

[chelsea0011]

28. "How's that rock you live under"?

[RichardRay]

31. No, actually, he's not Muslim, and if he were, why would that disqualify him?

Calmly establish the fact that the statement is untrue and proceed to a discussion of why it is immaterial, anyway.

Once again, I note that replies like "Shut up", or "I don't talk to bigots", etc. may be emotionally satisfying but do not contribute to the either the short of the long term goals of progressive politics. If I couldn't make a useful response I'd stop at "No, he isn't, why do you think that?" and move on.

[DerekJ]

32. I agree that we should clarify that he is not a Muslim first. (eom)

[AmericanUnity]

35. Catholic School 1-2 - Public School 3-4, Punahou Christian Academy 5-12

His grandfather in Kenya was Catholic, worked for the British, and only converted to Islam due to pressure from the community.

His father converted in his teens, but renounced Islam even before meeting Obama's mother.

[AmericanUnity]

36. Here's the PUNAHOU SCHOOL (Christian Academy) Link

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=13

[Norrin Radd]

38. It depends on the intention of the statement (or insinuation).

Listen carefully; what is the speaker implying? If he or she is simply ignorant of the facts, well, normally, you can't argue with stupid, but, in this circumstance, I'd counter with a line of questioning that forces him or her to -- attempt to -- think, to expose his or her motivations. At first, play the part of the innocent and say, "Oh? I didn't know that." Then ask, "So what faith/belief system should Obama be...Christian?" Then: Which denomination? What if he were Mormon or Jehovah's Witness? What if he were, say, Hindu? Secular Humanist? You don't know what that is?

Now, if he or she is obviously aware that Obama isn't a Muslim, but are stating it as an unassailable fact to spread lies, then be direct: "Are you going about exclaiming that he is a Muslim because you know it isn't true, but are attempting to pander to and/or alarm bigots and the simpleminded who have falsely conflated being a Muslim, and/or Arabic with any and all acts of terrorism?" Then: Do you think that one can't be an American and a Muslim? That there should be some sort of religious test to be President? Do you reject the U.S. Constitution and the First Amendment which includes the Establishment Clause? You don't know what that is?

Attributed to Bruce Lee (sound advice for a physical fight or an intellectual struggle):

Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.

[SoxFan]

39. The truth

He's not a Muslim. He's a practicing member of a mainline Protestant denomination.

That's not making a value judgement on Islam, it's simply pointing out the reality of the situation.

[anonymous171]

42. First: He is not a mulsim. 2nd: It shouldn't matter what religion our candidates are.

If they argue the first point mention Wright. If they argue the second, quote the constitution, mention how the Founding Fathers were mostly deist and deliberately chose not to found a "Christian nation."

[Swamp Rat]

43. "It's the economy stupid."

:D

[izzybeans]

44. Say "so, and your point." Then when they show their colors remind them

he's a Christian and what "Jesus" would do in this situation. "Judge not lest one sound like a dumbass."

[DrFunkenstein]

48. Remind Them That McCain Was Brainwashed in Nam and Has an Illegitimate Black Child

Remind him that this just a nasty smear campaign started by the same kind of people who tried to take out McCain in 2000.

[anonymous171]

49. Didn't McLame change his religion recently? It was really transparent pandering

[Willo]

50. I believe you respond by stating the truth

"That's not accurate...the fact is, his father, Barack Obama, Sr. was Muslim. His mother was agnostic. Barack Obama Jr. is a self-proclaimed Christian".

[BklynChick]

51. You say first of all there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim, and number two as a fact he is not

he's a Christian.

[shadowknows69]

52. Just smile and say "Cool!"

"it's about time"

[sudopod]

54. You make a great point!

We're playing their game when we go "OMG Obama is NOT a Muslim!!!111"

We should be sure that we aren't stroking their anti-Muslim prejudice whilst revealing the truth about our candidate.

He isn't a Muslim, but really, even if he were it should not matter to the degree that it determines one's vote.

[Autumn]

55. Tell them they are a fucking idiot

and you feel sorry for them.

[Mooney]

58. We should say that McCain is a Scientologist. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

89. So he wins California? No way! -nt

[elleng]

59. Peace, Shalom,

es salamu aleikum.

[seabeyond]

60. so what is a fine answer and should be enough. and start with that. but it matters

and votes matter and truth matters. need to say lie put out by repugs.

[AmericanUnity]

61. CNN DEBUNKS FALSE 'MADRASSA' STORY - Link inside

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0pMgsbMcpOE

Public School - Grades 1-2, Catholic School - 3-4, Punahou School (CHRISTIAN ACADEMY) 5-12

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=13

[helderheid]

62. Then how is it he had a controversial pastor?

[varelse]

63. I'd ask if that was their only reason for not voting for him

and get them to spit out the rest of the RW slander (aka "Fox News talking points") they've been brainwashed in... then debunk it one line at a time, starting with "well... not that there's anything wrong with Islam, but Obama is and always has been a practicing Christian - he's never been a disciple of Islam".

The way I see it, if a voter is still buying the "Muslim/terrorist" BS, that's probably not the only thing they have got wrong about Obama.

BTW when I first heard he had decided to run for President, I was under the impression that he was a Muslim - only for me, this isn't a negative or even all that important (I'm an aethist and a very firm believer in the First Amendment). I never imagined that this would be seen as a negative, because the "every follower of Islam is automatically an America-hating terrorist" meme just hadn't managed to sink in to me at all. Naive, even stupid, but then living in Santa Cruz, I'm somewhat sheltered :blush:

[LiveLiberally]

65. Response: Actually he is a Christian who believes....

that we are all god's children -- Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and non-believers. As progressives, we cannot cede the moral high ground on religion even if our instincts lead us to shy away from mixing politics and faith.

[gear_head]

66. when was Obama baptised? n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

87. When were you baptized?

[RBInMaine]

68. Tell them that is very well documented that he's a Christian and stop listening to RW propaganda.

[gear_head]

69. links to documentation? n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

82. Your concern is duly noted...

...you fucking troll.:eyes:

[bhikkhu]

70. "Cool - just don't tell his pastor" n/t

[quakerboy]

71. I've been toying with the

"your an idiot" followed by a swift kick to the head approach. It is so far untested, but I think it would be a memorable response, making my position on the topic quite clear and hard to mistake.

[theredpen]

73. You say. "You know what else is Muslim? My fist!"

And then you clock them.

[PerfectSage]

74. Tell them the truth: "your a stupid know nothing pos"

Make sure your tone of voice oozes contempt. It doesn't matter what you say, as long as the tone of voice conveys contempt. Their unconcious will get the message.

[backscatter712]

75. I just tell them flat out that it's bullshit.

Either they'll listen or they won't.

[smalll]

77. Sure! Tell them "So What?!" -- Then tell them that "Goddamn America" makes sense -- in context!

:eyes:

[Duke Newcombe]

78. "Mental illness is treatable..."

Duke

[Rosemary2205]

80. Good.

Obviously putting an evangelical christian in the White House didn't help, so putting on of their own in the White House may just keep them busy killing each other there instead of killing us here.

Snarky, sarcastic, and probably way over the person's head stupid enough to say "Obama is a Muslim".

[Forkboy]

81. "Cut it out Ozark Dem"

[Zhade]

83. "He's not, but if he was, SO?"

NT!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

90. Congratulations, you have given...

...the only correct progressive answer! :hi:

[AZBlue]

84. (A) No he's not, have you been under a rock the last three weeks? (B) So what if he was. And...

(C) Why am I still talking to you?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

85. Muslims are mortified that they are branded

Obama is NOT a Muslim.

Muslims are pissed off that they are getting branded with this 9/11 crap just because of Bush.

[Hippo_Tron]

86. I let Jon Stewart say it for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk0tb_Xuti8&feature=related

[rox63]

88. I think that we must first clear away the lie

After that, we can start to make the case that being a Muslim isn't evil.