For the last time....

[Splinter Cell]

HILLARY SUPPORTED THE FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN AGREEMENT ABOUT NOT COUNTING DELEGATES. I'm fucking sick and tired of hearing HRC, her supporters and anyone else bitching about Obama holding voters from those two states down.

She only gives a damn because she wants those delegates. If it was Obama that stood to win them she wouldn't SAY A WORD ABOUT IT.

The fantasy bullshit that the Clinton machine lives in is insane.

[QC]

1. And if Obama had won Florida and Michigan, his flock would be bleating

about the paramount importance of counting every vote.

It's called politics, and we have two politicians here, not a politician and St. Francis.

[sandnsea]

4. No. There was no election in those states.

And you would never hear me pretending there was, not in a million years. It's not called politics, it's called ethics. Get some.

[QC]

9. There was no election in those states? Really?

I seem to recall leaving home early that morning to go to my usual polling place and voting. All candidates were on the ballot. One of them, Obama, was even running TV ads here. (The poor dear just wasn't able to keep those darn commercials out of Florida, though Edwards and Clinton somehow managed.)

This "there was no election" business is the purest, most transparent rationalization. Please. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

[Splinter Cell]

10. The candidates agreed it wouldn't count....

And so, it doesn't count. It doesn't matter if Hillary, Obama, Edwards or ANYONE else got more votes. You don't get to decide after it's over that you don't agree, simply because you need the delegates.

Hillary doesn't get to make up the rules as she goes along. Live with it.

[QC]

12. I don't support Hillary.

Maybe if you would open your eyes you would see that.

I know it's hard for the simpleminded to imagine, but there are more than two kinds of people in the world: virtuous, pure and holy ones who walk in the ways of Obamatude, and Satan's minions, who have sold their souls to Hitlery Klintoon.

If you want to know the truth, I think that we are now stuck with our two weakest candidates, two timid, hyperambitious, corporate centrist yuppies who are more or less identical except for matters of biology. We blew it by letting the corporate media and celeb hangers-on choose our candidates.

What concerns me here is punishing the voters of two large states because their elected officials fucked up. Take away their superdelegate status--fine--but do not punish 10% of America's Democrats and then pretend that it's virtuous.

[Splinter Cell]

17. If you want to know the truth...

I really don't give a damn who supports who. If you think Edwards was the best choice, you're mistaken. I like John Edwards very much, and I love his passion and fire about dealing with poverty. As a candidate though, he just didn't have it. He was added to the ticket in 2004, and brought little to the ticket. He ran again this time around and once again spun his wheels and and got nowhere.

You might think it's simpleminded, but I was raised to keep my word and to follow the rules that have been agreed upon. You don't get to go through life changing everything to suit your position.

I don't claim Obama is a saint, and I don't belong to any cult, so you can take those ideas and put them where you'd like. I am against the kind of "Do whatever it takes" campaign that Clinton has run, and would be just as angry about it if it was Obama.

And as far as the media picking our candidates, that's baloney. Starting with Iowa, voters had the chance to choose Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Richardson, Kucinich, Gravel. They made Obama and Clinton the two leading choices. They didn't need George Clooney to tell them who to support. If the media really decided, then I think the leading white male (Edwards) would have been the final choice as always. He wasn't.

[QC]

19. The presstitutes had their chosen narrative in place long before Iowa.

Reality was not going to intrude on it. You know how they are when they get attached to a campaign narrative: the nice regular guy vs. the pompous serial liar (2000), the brave commander-in-chief vs. the prissy elitist peacenik (2004), etc.

I'm not only talking about Edwards here: Dodd, Biden, Kucinich, and Richardson were basically ignored (and openly mocked in the case of Kucinich), though all were very credible candidates. Edwards beat Hillary in Iowa, but what were the next day's headlines: "Hillary and Obama Head to New Hampshire!"

Of course, the corporate media always do a lousy job of campaign coverage, but this year is especially bad. I loathe them more every day.

[Mezzo]

24. you were raised to keep your word...do you hold YOUR candidate to the same standard?

since he said he'd not run until he fulfilled his US Senate term. In fact, he RAN ON IT.

[sandnsea]

11. No, there wasn't a certified primary election

Sorry you wasted your time. Should have told your local politicians to stop playing games.

[QC]

13. Yes, I have a lot of influence on the political establishment.

As soon as I have taken care of the election matters I will get them to find a cure for cancer and stop letting developers run the state.

[sandnsea]

16. Well yes you do

Maybe if you and your fellow Floridians raised a little hell, we wouldn't have all these election problems with your state.

[QC]

21. OK, I'll get Bill Nelson in line and you can do something about Lon Mabon.

Deal?

[JTFrog]

20. The election in Michigan has already been declared unconstitutional in court.

So in the eyes of the DNC that is absolutely correct on Michigan. They look at it as if there was no election held.

[crankychatter]

5. absolutely false and the use of the word "bleating" is an insult

Calling it just "politics" is evidence you are disingenuous and know the story to be concocted

It's childish cheating and then crying victim

So there's the truth

You know it's a lie and to you lies are OK

[QC]

15. From the forum rules:

Do not call another member of this message board a liar, and do not call another member's post a lie. You are, of course, permitted to point out when a post is untrue or factually incorrect.

It's always a good idea to learn a community's norms so as not to embarrass oneself.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

23. Of course we do.

Which is also why people talking about this like it's the end of democracy as we know it is quite silly as well.

[crankychatter]

2. it's a dream world that would make Rupert Murdoch jealous

it's difficult to believe a democrat of any stripe could steadfastly keep repeating this crap.

I have a one liner I've been using...

Not on Ballot-Nobody Campaigned-All Agreed to Not Count-State Legislatures Refused Revote-Clinton Operatives in State Houses only wanted to seat the Delegates based upon skewed results.

That's the entire story

[Noirceuil]

3. It is quite amusing...

watching Obama and his cultists argue in favor of disenfranchisement. I assure you the good people of Michigan and Florida will not forget this if Obama is the nominee.

[Splinter Cell]

8. LOL

Keep living in your dream world. Hillary doesn't give a shit about those voters, she just wants delegates. Period. Rules be damned. Agreement be damned. Honesty, integrity be damned. Party be damned. Country be damned. Just give the Queen what she wants.

You don't get to decide that the rules of the game(which you agreed with)are unfair and should be changed in the middle of the contest, because you're losing. Grow up Hillary. Grow up Bill. Grow up Hillbots.

[papau]

6. expected penalty 50% loss in delegates - Dean Jan 08 penalty was 100% loss and not known in 9/07

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

14. From the forum rules:

Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, conservative, Republican, FReeper, or troll, or do not otherwise imply they are not welcome on Democratic Underground.

Just trying to help out a newbie here.

[crankychatter]

18. I was unaware, thanks

I'm accustomed to a more raucus environment

would that they were so quick to respond to reports of outright, incendiary and racist tripe

[JTFrog]

22. Wow for one who knows the rules, you sure aren't getting them right.

But then I'm sure it's only embarrassing if you know better.

Twice you've called someone out for being new.

Go read the rules again.

[charlie]

25. Balls

The Rules and Bylaws committee voted to strip Florida of all its delegates last August. They did the same for Michigan in December. That's all, as in 100%. Before January. You guys are strangely fixated on Dean, but he didn't set the penalties.

The committee BTW, has 12 Clinton superdelegates (Obama has 4), including Ickes. Ickes was one who voted maximum punishment. So, send him a thank you note.