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How do you feel about Tenenbaum running for Hollings seat?

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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:32 AM
Original message
How do you feel about Tenenbaum running for Hollings seat?
in South Carolina

She has staked out positions on several social issues to the right of many Democratic activists. She favours the death penalty, supports a constitutional amendment defining marriage as being between a man and a woman, and agrees with the decision to invade Iraq (news - web sites).


Asked about the challenge of breaking through in a Republican state, she says simply: "South Carolinians like an independent thinker, and that is what I am."


As the state's top Democratic vote-getter, Ms Tenenbaum is probably the strongest candidate Democrats could have fielded. "She definitely has a shot at it. She is a formidable candidate," said Merle Black a political scientist at of Emory University in Atlanta and leading expert in southern politics. "But South Carolina is a tough state for any Democrat."

It has been 28 years since a Democratic presidential candidate won in South Carolina. And Mr Kerry, with his New England roots, is no Jimmy Carter. Indeed, Mr Kerry's name seldom surfaces in the Tenenbaum campaign. She does not mention him in her campaign speeches and he is not expected to campaign in the state.

But when it comes to winning the votes of people like Mr Tripp, the absence of the Massachusetts senator is probably a good thing. It may represent the best hope for Democratic Senate candidates in this year's southern contests.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1106&nc...
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. it's south carolina so i have no problem with it
kerry has almost no chance of winning the state , but the senate candidate does. so if keeping distance from kerry helps, then that's what they should do to win.
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. What do I think?
I think that a candidate who would be viable in Cambridge, Massachusetts may not necessarily be viable in Greenville, South Carolina.

Do I agree with Tenenbaum's positions on certain social issues? No. But she's still far to the left of any of the Republican candidates. Democrats lose in the South when we're pigeonholed by wedge issues -- God, gays and guns. I'm not in the position to even begin to understand how someone who very often has never even met a gay person nevertheless feels threatened by the "gay agenda," but they do. So in some places - most especially South Carolina - we really need to emphasize what I believe are core Democratic issues: jobs, education, healthcare. They resonate well in a state like South Carolina that's been hurt so badly by Bush's economy.

Tenenbaum will vote with the Democrats on the overwhelming majority of key votes - that's what's really important, both to us and to South Carolina voters.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. with a close senate, we need the seat just for the numbers alone
with the senate divided almost evenly we need every seat we can get since it might end up making the difference in whether we control the senate or not.

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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Absolutely
Any Democrat (with the possible but far-from-certain exception of Zell Miller) is better than any Republican, especially in a close Senate. Inez Tenenbaum, however, seems pretty damn good - she's a lot more than just "any Democrat." If she can win in South Carolina, all power to her. My guess, to be honest, is that she'll probably lose - SC's just too overwhelmingly Republican. But she's smart enough, popular enough, and effective enough to give Beasley, DeMint or anyone else a real run for the money.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Agree
I have relatives in South Carolina and I know that it would be impossible for someone to have a chance of winning if they campaigned on liberal social issues. But the economy is very important and I would rather have a socially conservative Dem voting in the Senate on economic issues that a tax and borrow Repub.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. well, south carolina does have a gay senator
i hear they ignore it since he votes with them on most issues. but i think he did say he was opposed to the anti gay constitutional amendment bush came out in favor of .
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Not all of South Carolina is Republican or Conservative
but most of it is, and mostly because of wedge social issues. The state has lost an absolutely obscene number of jobs in the last few years.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well at least she is running on
being against free trade. And her opponent is for it. SoI think she will win. But I think we're getting another Bayh type. Anyone know if she is pro-choice?
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Not necessarily
The primary hasn't happened. There are a number of leading Republican candidates. Former Governor Beasley opposes free trade. Congressman DeMint supports it. She'd have an excellent chance of beating DeMint - the state's business interests would defect and support her. Beasley would probably be a little harder.
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Finch Donating Member (487 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. She will probably be pro-life...

...as are many democrats in the same way that there are many republicans who are pro-choice...

I don't think that that is a big issue myself, and i wish liberals in the Democratic party and conservatives in the GOP didn't see it as a litmus issue... that said I myself am pro-life, however i think abortion should be legal within the first trimester and permitted outside of the period in the exception cases (rape, incest and the health of the mother)...
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Tenenbaum is pro-choice
She was endorsed by EMILY's List and they only endorse pro-choice femal democrats running for congress or governor's mansion. Also, they usually endorse women that are not just supportive of Roe V. Wade but also opposed to things like the Partial-birth abortion ban and the "Unborn Victims of Violence" Act. I'm sure exactly what her positions are on those issues but EMILY's List tends to support only women who are 100% supportive of abortion rights.

Here's a list of all of EMILY's List endorsed candidates:

https://www.emilyslist.org/contribute/candidates_all.cf...
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Finch Donating Member (487 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. What about Landrieu in LA and Herseth in SD
...both endorsed by EMILY;s List but both support the ban on partial birth abortions. I agree personally with upholding Roe v Wade but also believe that abortion should only be legal in the first trimester and support the PBA ban, I would have though that support for the PBA Ban would run counter to what many pro-choice people find acceptable?
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. EMILY's List pulled their support for Blanche Lincoln
After she voted to support the partial-birth abortion ban, I believed EMILY's List announced they would no longer support her. I think they did the same thing for Mary Landrieu but after realizing she would face a tough reelection battle, they reversed course and supporter her. So, EMILY's List does seem reluctant to support pro-partial birth abortion ban women but has made exceptions as they may have done in Tenenbaum's case.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is South Carolina so she is acceptable.
As long as she is NOT another Zell (Dick Russell's Love Child) Miller!
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Racenut20 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. Half a Democrat is better than no Democrat I think.
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Finch Donating Member (487 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. She's not 1/2 a Democrat!
She's just a moderate - conservative Democrat!

There is no superiority implied in being somehow ideologically pure! Or inhabiting the Far left of the party, its like the argument that only liberals and conservatives have core beliefs simply by virtue of the fact that they are unyielding and removed from the center ground... not so Tannenbaum is a Democrat and just as much a Democrat as you or any other Liberal Democrat or Moderate Democrat for that matter, one wing of the party is no inherently "truer" or more "Democratic" than the other, its all pretty much equal apart from dear old Zell... what the hell happened to that guy?
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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. better than another Strom Thurmond
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Finch Donating Member (487 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Its South Carolina!

...only Utah is more conservative. However South Carolina has a far more populist streak and that is why the Democratic party are not dead there as they effectively are in UT.

I do not agree with her, but I respect her views and on the economy she has a populist streak which is good and she has run a surprisingly strong campaign.

What Liberal northern democratic activist think shouldnt really have an effect down south where most Democrats (black and white) are social conservatives and economic populists. She supported the War in Iraq well nearly all the Democrats in the senate did, she supports the constitutional amendment (I disagree, but its SC!), She supports the death penalty well so do many democrats including the likes of Howard Dean. In fact shes pretty much as far to the left as a democrat could be in SC and she seems to be developing a populist message that is sounding very hopeful

We are a broad party committed to social justice unlike the GOP and I would say there is plenty of room for Mrs Tennenbaum. And I think shes a great asset to our party and I hope will get the opportunity to be the great Senator I think she will be if elected.
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jsw_81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't think she has much of a chance
We always hear the same song and dance every two years about how "strong" and "electable" our southern Senate candidates are (e.g. Ron Kirk, Bowles etc.) but on election day the voters almost always go with the right-wing GOP asshole instead. And with Bush at the top of the ticket -- and he's going to do extremely well down south even if Kerry is winning everywhere else -- it's going to be that much harder for our southern candidates to win.

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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Edwards as VP
will help keep seats in the Southern states. As he goes on the stump with them
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Finch Donating Member (487 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. True...
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Finch Donating Member (487 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. So let me get this straight...
...Democrats need to be more liberal in the south?

Well lets look at where Democrats have won of late...

Mary Landrieu fought tooth and nail in LA together with John Breaux to hold her senate seat against a republican candidate stump for by every member of the Bush family an administration.

Ben Chandler won a special election by a landslide in a traditionally republican district.

Blanco Beat Jindal the darling of the LA GOP.

Edwards defeated a candidate in 1998 backed by the entire Jesse Helms Machine.

Phil Bredesen won in Tennessee running as an (admittedly) conservative democrat after a long time as Nashville mayor.

Mark Pryor was elected in 2002 to the senate from AR campaigning as a Moderate Democrat.

Mark Warner campaigned as populist moderate and won some of the traditionally most conservative areas of Virginia and is effecting real change in the "old dominion" and remains fairly well liked.

Bill Nelson was carried into the senate in 2000, on a moderate platform having held a district between 1979 and 1990 that had trended towards the GOP throughout.

So did you say running as moderates wasn't working in the South?

I am afraid it does!







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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose
Yes, Kirk, Bowles and even Alex Sanders in SC were hyped beyond their election day performance, but that doesn't mean Dems can't win in the South. Remember, we've done exceptionally well recently in Arkansas and Louisiana, Mark Warner DID win in Virginia, John Edwards DID get elected in North Carolina, and despite his 2002 defeat (orchestrated by Ralph Reed's disciplined on-the-ground field operation), Roy Barnes remains the most popular politician in Georgia.

Will Tenenbaum win? I agree with you - probably not. But its not impossible at all. If ever South Carolina were to go Democratic, its this year.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Barnes was robbed
in GA
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. She has a chance
John Edwards, Mary Landrieu, Bill Nelson, Mark Pryor, and Blanche Lincoln have all won seats in the South by either beating and incumbent or filling an open seat since 1996. However, South Carolina is more conservative than LA, FL, AR or NC. Tenenbaum is a strong candidate and has done well in some polls. However, it will partly depend on who the republican nominee is. Tenenbaum is currenly though of as the superintendent of schools and republican will target her as a "tax and spend liberal" who "supports killing babies." So, it may depend on how successful republicans are at articulating that message.

I don't think it matters that Kerry is on the top of the ticket. Bush had coattails in 2002 and democrats got 44% of the vote in an open seat race in SC. Lindsey Graham was a stronger candidate than the 4 republicans who are running this time and Sanders, the democratic nominee, was a weaker candidate. Tenenbaum has won statewide twice before unlike Sanders who had only served in the state legislature. So, Tenenbaum will defintely make this race close and will probably get at least 45% of the vote, but it will be hard to get up to 50% but it is defintely possible.
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mot78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. No mainstream Dem can get elected in SC, so Tenenbaum
is the best we can afford down there. Let's just hope she doesn't become another Zell Miller.
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Finch Donating Member (487 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. She isn't radically out of the mainstream...
she probably to the right of the democratic party's mainstream as Russ Feingold, Barbra Boxer, Ted Kennedy etc... are to its left... the mainstreams really the likes of Bidden, Landrieu, Durbin, Edwards, Levin, Graham etc... and the right the likes of Lieberman, Bayh, Bill Nelson and then the likes of Breaux and Ben Nelson slightly further out and then Zell... way way way way out there :eyes:
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. In terms of the South Carolina Democratic Party
which is all that matters, Tenenbaum is well left-of-center. There are still a large number of really conservative Democrats there, and she isn't one of them.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. The death penalty is about the only pro-labor policy endorsed by SC...
Edited on Sat May-15-04 02:58 PM by mitchum
politicians. If you're shot to death while working your low-paying convenience store job, chances are that your murderer will have a date with "Old Sleepy"
Sad, but true.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. did she do a good job as Superintendent of Education?
If she made progress on education in SC and is pro-choice and is good on civil rights then I don't think democrats could ask for more in a state like SC.
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