If you stick by a husband that repeatedly cheated on you....

[NJmaverick]

How could you suddenly try and take the moral high ground and claim you would leave a church who had some views you didn't agree with? Seems to me this claim of Hillary's is just another sniper momement. Especially when you consider the political benefits Obama was reaping of being a member of that 8000+ member Chicago church.

[mwb970]

1. Nothing she says makes sense any more.

You might as well try to analyze another load of bush blather.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

8. Hillary doesn't have the strength to throw the kitchen sink anymore...

...she's grabbing for the sponge.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

29. Hillary reminds me more and more of Bush every day. Can't wait until this torture is over.

[jgraz]

2. Obama should just say that he tried to leave the church

but he was pinned down by sniper fire.

[Vinca]

4. ROFL!

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

19. ...

:rofl:

The "Hilly under sniper fire" jokes seem to write themselves ... endless possibilities. :evilgrin:

[jgraz]

23. This is even more fun that the "I take Hillary at her word she's not a _____" routine

:evilgrin: indeed.

[kittycat1164]

56. Thanks alot...I have coffee all over my computer now... LOL n/t

[Catherina]

58. !

:rofl:

[Thothmes]

3. I dont know about that but

In my opinion, if Senator Clinton thought divorcing her husband would give her the White House, Bill would get the divorce papers in a New York minute.

[JimGinPA]

6. LOL

[NJmaverick]

24. So you think if she was a politician in Chicago

She would have left a chuch that was over 8000 people strong?

[dchill]

81. You are right. I think she may have miscalculated.

She would probably have gotten more respect AND sympathy (=VOTES) if she'd sent him packing.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. Comparing apples to oranges never works. Won't work here either.

[NJmaverick]

22. Hillary lumped the church with her sniper fire story

So why stop there? She opened the door to when do you stay or leave. So now everything is on the table.

[Mezzo]

7. so their marriage/s are fair game now? REEEEEEEEALLY?

You say repeatedly: Larry Sinclair has about as much credibility as Paula Jones. And *HE* says he sucked BHO's dick in a limo while BHP hit a crack pipe.

We can sling mud all the live long day too.

[JimGinPA]

10. Does That Lying Bastard Have A Blue Dress Too?

[wndycty]

12. It should not be fair game, but neither should where Obama chooses to worship

:kick:

[Mezzo]

105. you're kidding, right? He named his freaking book after this man's sermons...

This is a judgement call. And if he maintains that he wasn't privy to this guy's rants (and I sure;y don't get to my particular church each Sunday)..but twenty YEARS? If HRC hung out with a white supremacist, it'd be news. To say, "move along here, nothing to see folks" while this man's unconscionable sermons have come to light, you're deluding yourself.

If you think there is nothing wrong with these sermons, it shows a MUCH more insidious racial divide that does not bode well for his electability.

[jgraz]

18. Really. How much did Obama pay Larry Sinclair in HIS sexual harassment suit?

Was it more or less than the $850,000 that the Clintons had to pay out?

[NJmaverick]

28. If a person's faith is fair game, why shouldn't marriage be in play?

[OhioBlue]

37. what is fair game is Hillary's lies

she said she was no Tammy Wynette. Well, she stood by her man.

Now she says she would have left the church... I say BS - The Clintons feel it is okay to use Reverend Wright when it is Politically advantageous (pray for Bill's adulterous ways and perjury and to help get them some black votes in Chicago) and then turn around and throw him under the bus the moment that can score a political point.

SHE went there.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

46. Did Obama pay Sinclair $850,000, like Clinton paid Jones?

um.... no.

[Skidmore]

83. The Clinton marriage has always been fair game since the taxpayers

ended up paying for a nearly two year impeachment proceeding. Yes, we own a part of that marriage and are owed an explanation about how this couple would impact our nation in the future.

[marshall]

99. Did BHO pay hm off?

If so, then there could be a comparison.

[MyNameGoesHere]

9. Easy, she wasn't married to the church. The church didn't have a daughter with her.

And to bring up Bills cheating is just more Obama form of unity and hope. Umm maybe you want to interrogate Chelsea about Monica also?

[wndycty]

14. Isn't one's relationship with their church personal, you know like a marriage?

:kick:

[jgraz]

16. Not when you can use it to score political points

Hey, I thought a person's relationship with the truth was personal, but the Clintons appear to have abandoned that years ago.

[NJmaverick]

30. And there goes another sniper!

[MyNameGoesHere]

51. Not in my book.

i would defend my spouse to the gates of hell. Church not so much.

[jgraz]

15. Hey, we're just "vetting" her. Isn't that Hillary's line?

You better believe Bill's infidelity will be front-and-center in any hypothetical race against McCain. And Republican voters are a lot less sympathetic to candidates playing the victim.

[MyNameGoesHere]

52. Cool then you better believe

Obama being black will be the end of him getting elected. Just vetting see.

[NJmaverick]

20. Those that live in glass houses shouldnt' throw stones

That's a fact of life Hillary needs to learn.

[MyNameGoesHere]

53. Ok so because Bill cheated on her she can never question anyone else?

Does Obama need a pillow?

[shadowknows69]

11. I agree she shouldn't have taken the guilt by association angle

But I don't think this is a relevant comparison.

[Seeker30]

13. You are an idiot of the first degree

[ShortnFiery]

17. By all past indicators, Bill Clinton is a sex addict. If I were HRC, I wouldn't be intimate with

the "big dawg" EVER AGAIN without first donning a wet suit. :wow: :scared:

[riskpeace]

36. Your post is pathetic

n/t

[NJmaverick]

45. Why is it that the dumbest members of DU

Are the ones that post responses like "You are an idiot of the first degree"? It's like george bush questioning someone's honesty

[Seeker30]

47. Dumb would be blaming someone for being cheated on

and comparing it to a hate filled anti-america nut. You seem to define dumb perfectly.

[NJmaverick]

48. really?

"hate filled anti-america nut." That sort of description of Rev Wright, makes you sound like you would be more at home at FR than DU. Then again I am sure a super genius, like yourself, already knew that.

[Seeker30]

54. Nah, they are filled with hate just like yourself and Rev Wright

Different page out of the same book.

[NJmaverick]

55. "filled with hate"? Wasn't that the battle cry the repukes

used to smear Bush's critics? nice

[ElsewheresDaughter]

21. with your analogy, Obama &the Rev will/should say fuck you America you deserve what you get and

allow our "chickens" to kills us all because we deserve it?

[MethuenProgressive]

25. Nomad, I don't think it's any of your business.

:rofl:

[electron_blue]

26. That is a good point.

[MaineDem]

27. How offensive

We have no idea of what goes on in their marriage and I don't think it should play any part in Hillary's campaign.

As a woman I'm offended by anyone "blaming" her for staying with her husband through a trying period. That's up to the two of them and them alone!

[NJmaverick]

31. So someone's faith isn't personal????

Seems to me you have a convenient double standard

[MaineDem]

35. I'm not talking about faith - just the cheating husband item you brought up

And I must say that I am not a Hillary supporter.

[NJmaverick]

38. Hillary brought up Obama's faith so she is the one

that put her cheating husband in play. What's good for the goose...

[MaineDem]

39. As someone else said, apples and oranges

Discuss her faith if you must but her marriage is between the two of them and none of us have any idea why they are adhering tot he vows they took.

Her husband cheated - fact. How they handled it is up to them and them alone. It should have no bearing on the discussion.

I'm sorry you feel otherwise but we disagree.

[NJmaverick]

41. Faith and marriage are both personal issues

Hillary decided personal issues should be part of the campaign.

[midnight]

32. Why is this an issue? Why does D.U. keep giving this enery?

Bill cheated, Obama tabloid headlines say he cheated. Sex and God... The other two issues after Race and Gender.

[GarbagemanLB]

33. Obama TABLOID headlines? LOL

[OhioBlue]

34. She can't take the moral high ground

remember when she said "I'm no Tammy Wynette, stand by your man"...

well, whatever.

now she says she would have left the church b/c of the Pastor, the same Pastor that came to the White House to pray for Bill after he got caught lying about cheating....

talk about your irony.

[1776Forever]

40. Why did Bill invite Wright to the White House Prayer breakfast if he was such an evil man?

Hillary is being Hillary. She just can't help herself! She is going to bring Obama down anyway she can and win at all cost even if she goes down in flames!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

57. The Annual WH Prayer Breakfast it is the staffers job to do the invites of 100 religious leaders

Rev Wright was 1 of those 100

[NJmaverick]

59. So he's good when he is invited to the White House

But he's bad when he associates with Obama?

[NastyRiffraff]

42. A church (NOT a faith) and a marriage are two entirely different things

As anyone with the minimum requirement of brain cells would know.

For those lacking the minimum requirement, I'll try to type V E R Y S L O W L Y: You can still profess your faith and leave a CHURCH and/or a pastor. You can go to another church, within the same faith (what a concept!).

A marriage, as anyone with the requisite brain cells know, is a very personal private matter involving a complex relationship and many many issues that no one other than the married couple completely knows. Nor is it anyone's business. It's not a matter for outside judgment unless by a professional and/or spiritual counselor, and is requested by the couple involved.

[GarbagemanLB]

43. Yeah, and it isn't a 'personal' relationship with the man who brought you to Christ..

[NastyRiffraff]

49. Sure, I imagine it is personal...

although the "brought you to Christ" thing automatically turns me off, big time. But it's still MUCH easier to sever a relationship with a pastor, whoever he brought you to, than to a husband or wife.

I do agree, however, that both relationships have no business in a political campaign. Hillary commented on it because she was ASKED. She replied by saying that Wright wouldn't be her pastor. I assume that's an accurate answer, and no criticism of St. Barack. (Yes, yes, I KNOW it's heresy to criticize him, or to take His Holy Name in vain.)

[theboss]

62. I've seen too many churches torn apart over disputes with pastors to say "it's easy."

A relationship with a pastor can be as meaningful as any in a person's life. Leaving a pastor often means leaving hundreds of friends and acquaintances.

[Apollo11]

63. Come on! This is DU!

I hope that all of us here are smart enough to understand that the Bible is just a bunch of old stories.

Why would anyone want to spend eternity sitting around on clouds with their dead relatives? :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

44. Your legend in own mind attitude aside

Faith and Marriage are both personal things that should stay out of the election. However, once Hillary decided to make it part of the campaign it's only FAIR that everything be put on the table. Besides as Hillary is fond of saying, it's all part of the vetting process. Do you think that the repukes won't bring up the marriage issue?

[Apollo11]

65. Plus - switching churches is much easier that going through a divorce.

Especially when there are children involved.

I would have thought this point was a no-brainer.

Not that the Clintons' marriage is any of our business.

[NJmaverick]

72. Plus Hillary would never have been in the position to run

for President if she divorced Bill.

[KingFlorez]

50. She was asked a question and answered it

She wasn't claiming higher moral ground. It was her opinion and it's not that serious. And you can't really compare a marriage to attending a church, when you spend years in a marriage it might be hard to leave your spouse, even if they did do something wrong. That said, I never believed the Reverend Wright thing was really an issue and it should be dropped. Personal choices shouldn't be political issues.

[Apollo11]

67. I agree that Hillary has a right to answer questions

I do not agree that personal choices should never be political issues.

Barack Obama has described Rev. Wright as his personal mentor and spiritual guide.

Obama claims to have been regularly attending this church for the past 20 years.

Rev. Wright has built his whole career on preaching these kind of undiluted sermons.

It's not credible for Obama to now say that he had no idea, and by the way he disagrees.

Why has he been exposing his daughters to political ideas that he considers to be wrong?

That right there is something that raises questions about Obama's judgement.

We know that Obama chose a wife and then a pastor who both believe to some extent (in Michelle's case I'm not saying it's 100%) in the case for black seperatism, or parallel development.

It is the total opposite of Obama's message of "why can't we all just get along".

[Apollo11]

60. Hillary Clinton's marriage and family are none of our business.

But I think it is fair to ask Barack Obama why he has made the choice over the past 20 years to associate himself with someone who makes a living out of preaching strong political messages - and now Obama turns around and tells us he was not aware of and does not agree with some of these messages.

I also agree with what is implied in the OP, that the only way to understand it is by taking into account "the political benefits Obama was reaping of being a member of that 8000+ member Chicago church."

If Obama had seen that there were potential political benefits to be gained from switching to a different church, then I would not be surprised if he had switched to a different church.

[GarbagemanLB]

64. Neither is his relationship with the pastor who brought him to Christ.

[Apollo11]

66. Come on! This is DU!

I hope that all of us here are smart enough to understand that the Bible is just a bunch of old stories.

Why would anyone want to spend eternity sitting around on clouds with their dead relatives? :eyes:

[Seeker30]

68. Jesus hates the white man too?

Link?

[Apollo11]

69. According to Rev Wright, the messiah was a brother.

Apparently, Jesus knew what it was like to live in a society run by rich white people.

I guess nobody had told Jesus about the coming of Barack Obama and the Audacity of Hope.

[NJmaverick]

71. Obama's faith is none of your business

but I think it's fair to ask about a candidates marriage issues to a former President of the United states. See if it's easy to make claims, one way or the other. The FAIR thing is to either put both on the table or take both off the table. Can't have double standards

[Apollo11]

73. Obama's choice of spiritual guide and personal mentor is relevant

when we learn that his mentor has a habit of making strong political statements on current events like the 9-11 attacks and on candidates for political office and whether or not one of them has ever been called a n****r.

Barack and Michelle take their children to this church and sit through these sermons - I am guessing on a regular basis. And now we are asked to accept that Senator Obama either did not know about or did not agree with some of the main points of Rev. Wright's message to the Christians of Chicago.

How is it credible for a candidate to say: "This guy is my personal mentor. He turned me into a Christian. Me and my family attended his church for 20 years. He gave me the idea for the title of my book. But I am not familiar with his political views and I don't necessarily agree with anything he says." :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

75. Why did you misquote Obama?

Is that because your position is flawed, and that's the only way you can defend it? Do I need to post Obama's speech to show you that he did not make the claim of "not familiar with his political views"?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

61. Grow a back bone!

You have no problem defending this guy who continually partakes in sexist campaign tactics, but you run to defend Obama everytime Clinton attampts to defend herself. The Obama camp is full of hypocrits!!! Devisiveness, please!!!! How about the semen stained dress post by an Obama supporter!!!! I suppose we all are supposed to scorn Hillarry over Bill’s infedelity? Isn’t that like the girl who was raped so her village stoned her to death? Give me a break. That post was about humiliating Hillary Clinton’s womanhood once again over what Bill did!!! How fair was that? More and more sexism is coming out of the Obama camp everyday and now they want to call foal play.

You people are sickening and we won’t let you control the discourse!!!! When the Obama camp stops playing the gender card against Clinton, we can talk about fair play. Meantime, if whites shy away from Obama because he is envolved with a black seperatist, racist and anti-american church, good for Clinton!!!!

[NJmaverick]

70. "partakes in sexist campaign tactics"?!?!?!

I have backbone enough to call BULL SHIT! On your disingenuous claims

I have backbone enough to demand a level playing field and refuse to allow Hillary supporters to tilt in toward her

I have backbone enough to stand up to the hypocrits that claim a man's faith is fair game, but not a person's marriage


The problem is you don't want backbone, you want preferential treatment for Hillary, and you are not getting it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

74. What A Stupid Theory. For Real. To Try And Compare The Two Is Insane.

I'm amazed at the level of stupidity some will readily sink to here now just for sake of slandering her.

[NJmaverick]

76. Stupidity would be somone that doesn't know or understand

the meaning of the word "slander"... Like you for instance.:evilgrin:

[Jed Dilligan]

77. No, that's just ignorance.

Stupidity is thinking you're smarter than you are. Sadism is enjoying making people angry. Cowardice is doing it over the internet. :evilgrin:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

80. You Described Yourself Well.

I almost have to give you credit for being so honest about yourself. Not often I see you have truth to your comments. Kudos to you!

[Jed Dilligan]

85. I'd kudos you back

if you'd managed anything better than "I know you are but what am I?"

Weak. Totally weak. I'm actually kind of disappointed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

88. Ahhhhhh Ya See, But That Doesn't Quite Work Here.

You had said a generic statement not directly related to ANYONE, that I then directly applied to you. You may wanted to have inferred that it was towards me to begin with, but ya didn't. Ya didn't because you didn't have the balls to. So it was left as a generic blanket statement. The one who had the balls to relate directly to an actual target, was me. So nice try with that!

:rofl:

[Jed Dilligan]

89. You seem to have recognized that my post was aimed at you

generic though the wording might have been.

:rofl:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

91. Helloooooooo McFlyyyyyyyyy!!!!!! Geez, Do I Need To Spoonfeed You Everything?

You just previously replied that I was saying "i know you are but what am i", so obviously you revealed your true intent was initially to place it directly towards me, though you were too much of a coward to do so. That intent came through your second reply, AFTER I had already assigned it to you. Jeez, try and keep up! Nothin I hate worse than those who come to battle requiring spoonfeeding. So irritating lol.

:rofl:

[Jed Dilligan]

92. So you're saying you butted into a conversation using completely

generic words, that you had no idea might refer to you, in order to attack me?

I don't know, you would probably look better if you admitted the truth.

Nothing more to say here. I'm sure you'll drop another stinker after this one, but I'm done. Bye!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

93. You Were Done Long Ago.

I read the generic statement, and afterwards thought "hmmmmmm, that sounds JUST like him! Maybe it isn't generic and he's finally being honest about himself!", so that's what I posted since I have the balls to speak my mind, and do so regularly. No more spoonfeeding for you now. :hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. You Implied She's Immoral As Well Hypocritical. You Are Slandering Her.

And you are doing so based on a completely ignorant and highly illogical analogy. So yeah, the comparison is really quite stupid.

[NJmaverick]

82. Seems to me that she isn't being honest and she is being

hypocritical. So you can't call it slander if it's true.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

84. Like I Said. Sheer Stupidity.

[Jed Dilligan]

86. It's really off its game lately. You should take pity

and stop responding.

[Bigleaf]

78. She sold her soul and pride for the Power. That's the Clinton way. Look at who she's

embraced after the hateful things said about her daughter Chelsea. I know I would NEVER EVER make amends with someone who said nasty, hateful things about my kids. NEVER. As a matter of fact, they would regret saying those things. GUARANTEED! We know why she did it though. Her lust for power.

[anamnua]

87. ' for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in

health, until death us do part'....

[Kitty Herder]

90. Bill's cheating is not Hillary's moral failing and most very religious people

see a wife standing by her man no matter what as virtuous.

There are plenty of things to criticize Hillary about. Like her vote for the Iraq war, her vote for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, her lying about the sniper fire in Bosnia, etc, etc. But her standing by Bill is a personal matter. I wouldn't stay with him, but I'm not her.

[NJmaverick]

95. Wrights comments are not Obama's moral failing

so what's your point??

[Kitty Herder]

101. No, Wright's comments are absolutely not Obama's failing and are

very minor compared to the things some right wing pastors in this country say. (All right, I'll be honest. I agreed with alot of what Wright said.)

I'm an ardent Obama supporter, so don't misunderstand me. I was just providing my thoughts on the "morality" of Hillary staying with Bill. I don't think it's an issue for religious folks and I think it's a personal thing between the two of them.

[lumberjack_jeff]

94. Let me see if I've got this right.

A person has a moral obligation to divorce their spouse, the other parent of their child, (who is also happens to be the leader of the free world) because of an affair.

A person who attends a church in which the pastor regularly preaches (in Obama's words) "inflammatory" and "offensive" things should stay with that church both because the pastor is 'like family' and because it's politically expedient.

The observation that college graduates are more likely to support Obama isn't a good reflection on higher education.

[NJmaverick]

96. "regulary preaches "inflammatory" and "offensive""??????

Where are the snipers?

[lumberjack_jeff]

97. You apparently didn't listen to what Obama actually said. n/t

[NJmaverick]

98. I see you are ducking for cover from that sniper fire

because Obama said:

"Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed. "

[lumberjack_jeff]

100. And

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy and, in some cases, pain. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in the church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely — just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's efforts to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country — a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

I'm not pissed that Obama stayed with his preacher. I'm pissed that you're using Hillary's decision to keep her family intact, and minimize the harm to her country as a cudgel to shut her up about her distaste for Wright's words.

I consider Wright a non issue. But Hillary's decision to stay with Bill is less than a non issue - it's none of your f'ing business.

[NJmaverick]

102. You are pissed because you want Hillary to be able to

talk about Obama's private issues, but you don't want Hillary's private life discussed.

Doesn't work that way. She stayed with Bill to further her political career and then claimed she would have hurt her political career and left the major church, if she was in Obama's situation. I find that as believable as her sniper claim

[lumberjack_jeff]

103. a) The cat's kind of out of the bag about Hillary's private life.

b) Obama has written two books and a half-hour speech about his private life.

If Wright is supposed to be a personal issue - your candidate has an odd way of expressing that view.

[NJmaverick]

104. Obama expressed the same views as his preacher????

I see you got more snipers

[lumberjack_jeff]

106. Focus man, focus.

It is beyond silly that Bill's transgressions should preclude Hillary from opining on the implications of Obama's choices of his closest advisors.

If the last 8 years have taught us anything, it should be that the company a candidate keeps (McClurkin, Goolsbee, Wright) is an important consideration.

(granted I'd prefer that HRC lose Mark Penn)

[WinkyDink]

107. Staying married WAS taking the higher moral ground, get it?

Forgiveness and all that?

Unless you attand a church that advocates divorce??