Hardball Panel Believes Clinton Angling for 2012

[Bullet1987]

2 out of the 3 panelists thought that was part of Hillary Clinton's strategy now...as there is apparently no reason to attack Obama as hard as she is unless she wanted to seriously damage him in the General so he'd lose. Chuck Todd is the only one who disagreed.

[Pirate Smile]

1. The worst option for Clinton is for Obama to win the nomination and win the GE.

Primary General
1. Clinton Clinton
2. Clinton McCain
3. Obama McCain
4. Obama Obama

They were saying how the least favorite Clinton option is number 4.

[powergirl]

2. All of the panelists agreed that Clinton would rather McCain win than

for Obama to win. That is terrible.

[Pirate Smile]

5. I know. That is why this is at such a destructive point.

[maddiejoan]

3. Hardball

The new indisputable source of information for DU.

:eyes:

[roguevalley]

30. if they are saying it, others are too. that is the power of perception

and just because they are able to say it to the public doesn't mean it isn't out there, circulating and doing damage.

[susankh4]

50. Yeah. What gives?

:shrug:

[Beacool]

4. Who cares what that a-hole Tweety says about anything?

He's so far up Obama's butt he can't even see daylight!!!

[powergirl]

11. We need to care because the balance of the Supreme Court is at stake

I would never risk that as a candidate - not ever.

[Beacool]

13. Too bad, the party should have thought of this

before they insisted on allowing a 2 year senate neophyte run for president. Obama had so much potential and he was only 45 years old at the time. Why couldn't he wait until he had built up his resume? As it is, if the party goes down in flames in November it will deserve it.

[qazplm]

17. allowing?

Wait, now see I thought ANYONE over the age of 35, yadda yadda, could run for president, but now apparently you have to be "allowed" to run for president?

Hmmmm...makes one wonder of course why a junior Senator from New York who hasnt even had a decade in elected office, never been a Governor and little major legislation passed is "allowed" to run for office.

Why couldnt he wait? Why couldnt she wait? Biden and Dodd run laps around both for experience, as does Richardson.

I suspect the answer was the same for both, they thought they were ready and had the tools. Apparently, the American people agree because they are the two left standing.

What a silly post by you. Just downright ludicrous.

[DevonRex]

25. Yeah, what you said. :) nt

[powergirl]

18. President Clinton was the same age

when he was elected. His experience was being the Governor of Arkansas. Was it wrong to run Bill Clinton? I voted for him - twice. The Clinton campaign should have realized that her divisiveness would endanger the presidential nomination for the Democratic party. Clinton and her supporters are offended that Obama did not agree that it was her turn. But this is America, and she does not get to decide who runs. Your post exemplifies the flaw of her campaign and her reckless disregard for our country. Clinton would rather McCain win than Obama and I am sickened by the thought.

[Beacool]

27. Bill Clinton in 1992 was the senior governor of the country.

He had been in office for 12 years, pls. don't compare him to a state senator. We have hundreds of them and most are not fit to be president. I'm offended that a slick operator who has coasted his entire political career based more on charm than actual work, thinks that he's fit to be president with his razor thin experience. I, and many others, have no intention of voting for this man if he's the nominee. At this point, it's beyond Hillary.

[powergirl]

32. You have just exemplified that Cinton and her supporters would rather ruin the country

than vote for Obama. That is deplorable. The Supreme Court will be gone, and the women in this country (including me) will live with the reversal of Roe v. Wade. Clinton and her supporters would risk it all for their blind hatred of a person who can win it all. impressive

[Beacool]

37. Don't blame us, blame Dean, the party and the reprehensible way

in which they have handled this election. We could have had 2 good presidencies and 16 years of Democratic rule. As it is, we're lucky if we'll have a battered nominee by August and right now half of the party despises the other half. So, the Democratic party does deserve to go down in flames.

[powergirl]

38. I blame those, such as yourself, that would rather let the country collapse

because of your unwarranted dislike of the Democratic nominee. There is no excuse for voting for McCain if you are a democrat, period. It is offensive and irresponsible. I, unlike yourself, will vote for Clinton if she is able to be the nominee. Who do you think cares more for this country? A person like yourself or me?

[Kittycat]

60. You really stepped in to the sh*t didn't you?

If HRC would have followed dean's 50-state plan, instead of suggesting that so many states in the union "don't count" maybe she'd be in the lead?

And damn that constitution while we're at it - right? :eyes:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

63. Blame the goddamned voters!

The nervy fucks!

[Tatiana]

23. ***WHEW*** For a minute there, I almost blew. But I will try to respectfully ask:

Since when does the Democratic Party "allow" candidates to run for President? Do they have to pass a certain test? An age requirement beyond what is Constitutionally required?

Boy, y'alls true colors and IRRATIONAL PERSONAL HATRED towards Sen. Obama comes out at the oddest moments.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

29. Bill Clinton was 46 when he was first elected President.

[powergirl]

33. Obama will be 47 years old in August

Looks like he meets the test! :)

[roguevalley]

31. allow? I realize this country is more totalitarian than it used to be but

people are ALLOWED to run. Read the constitution. Jeez.

[rufus dog]

53. what a fucking assinine post

right out of the bushie school of defense.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

58. Damn those founding fathers!

They should have thought of that! Let's amend the constitution so Hillary can be President!


Oh yeah, I almost forgot: :eyes:

[City Lights]

14. I'm really ticked that Hillary doesn't appear to care about the USSC.

:grr:

[Cha]

43. I hope gloria steinem is still happy

with hilary and her 2012 strategy and all the women who seem to support her because she's female. They couldn't have done an indepth study of her actions and flip-flops(I'm not talking about changing one's mind..I'm talking about political expediency) or they wouldn't use their name as an endorsement.

Who endorses a world class liar?

[City Lights]

54. Her 2012 strategy should have all who cherish their right to choose

incensed.

[Cha]

56. Precisely, that's why I thought of

Gloria Steinem whom I would think was all for RoeVWade.

[girl gone mad]

22. It wasn't just Matthews saying it. n/t

[NightWatcher]

6. that viewpoint appears to be gaining momentum around the political wonkosphere

she loves power so much that she'll sacrafice us to 4 more Bush-like years

[Diane R]

19. Agreed.

[H2O Man]

7. I agree n/t

[DJ13]

8. Those TV talking heads are brilliant

We've been saying that since Texas........

:rofl:

[BklynChick]

9. I don't care whose mouth it's coming out of, it's so obviously true and disgusting!

[DearAbby]

10. The party leaders will have to face this soon

It seems the media is now starting to report Clinton stands no chance. And now people will begin to speculate the reasons she continues a race when the outcome has already been decided.

The continued attacks are damaging the party. When theories like the above are being openly discussed, this can not be good for the Clinton's, and may be damaging for the senate seat as well.
The party leaders are going to have to grow a spine and put a stop to this.

[Raine1967]

12. I pray this isn't the case...

... But Tweety isn't the only one saying this.

Randi Rhodes suggested this scenario as an explanation for her *endorsement* of Senator McCain.

I really hope this is not the strategy, our nation cannot handle 4 four years of these policies.

[McCamy Taylor]

15. Tweety is playing Divide and Conquer games, guys. Do not bite.

Why do you think he was the first to say that New Hampshire voters went for Hillary because they are racists (when he must have known as an Irish-American that the Irish-American matriarchy loves women politicians) and who was it who did a full hour show about Obama and cocaine and then blamed Mark Penn for saying the word "cocaine" on the show and got everyone else on MSNBC and a bunch of left wing journalists blaming Mark Penn for saying the word on Matthews All Cocaine All Obama show?

Matthews has been leading the Divide and Conquer charge at MSNBC for months. He also calls McCain a maverick and calls it the "Democratic war".

[Rydz777]

16. I don't give a rat's behind what Tweety's panel thinks. eom

[greyghost]

20. You beat me to it.

[4_Legs_Good]

21. I heard that and was surprised that our blog-conspiracy theory has made it to the MSM

Not that the conspiracy isn't at least part true, IMO, I just didn't expect to hear it on Hardball.

Hey! I haven't seen Buchannon in a few days. Any chance he's being punished for his racist and absurd comments WRT Wright? I'd love to see him gone from MSNBC.

David

[McCamy Taylor]

24. He was on Gregory.

[4_Legs_Good]

36. Bah! Thanks for the info

maybe he'll stay over there, though. I enjoy Hardball, but am not going to watch anything that guy is on anymore.

David

[Bullet1987]

65. Buchanan was on Gregory's show Race to the White House

They switch them up everyday. One day he'll be on Hardball, another he'll be on Dam Abram's show, etc.

As far as the Clinton 2012 strategy...it's been picked up by places like Politico and Huffington Post too. So it's not some blogger/messageboard conspiracy theory. And it makes perfect sense in Clinton world if you think about it.

[4_Legs_Good]

68. True re: "conspiracy"

but I think we were the first ones to realize it! :)

David

[Tom Rinaldo]

26. It's the new talking point

I am not surprised in the slightest:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5231289&mesg_id=5231289

Tweety is about as objective a "journalist" as Rush Limbaugh.

No one in their right mind can believe Hillary Clinton would have a chance at the nomination in 2012 if Democrats lose in 2008, and Hillary isn't crazy. Democrats would run as far as possible from both her and Obama if this year's election results in Democrats throwing away their best chance of winning the White House in a decade. There is no way she could get to first base in 2012. Both she and Obama would share the blame for the fiasco. Someone different would emerge.

This line of thinking is all about influencing what happens with the Democratic nomination this year. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Devil Dog Dem]

28. Bullshit. She wants it now. Her window is closed after 2008

She's a smart Pol, she knows if she loses the nomination it is over for her. The party won't nominate her in 2012, in fact she get a good share of the blame (fairly or unfairly) for losing the GE if that happens. The conventional wisdom will be that she bloodied Barrack so much she made him unelectable.

[Mz Pip]

34. I really hope it is not true

That would be cynical beyond belief. Besides, if she can't win the primary this time around, what makes her think she can do it in 2012? But she has done some things that definitely seem to be of the "poisoning the well' kind. Praising McCain over Obama was a big one.

[Cha]

35. So what does Chuck Todd think is the reason she's

lying and smearin' her ass off regarding Obama and has only an astronomically low chance of winning?

I'm so sick of writing about hilary and her latest problems.

[apocalypsehow]

39. They are right - she is. So are her supporters.

n/t.

[LVjinx]

46. If all Republicans are against him, and half of Democrats per your theory, how can he possibly win?

[apocalypsehow]

49. You're right - I left a word off the end of my sentence. The word is "here." The HRC boosters at DU

are so filled with hatred toward Senator Obama that I've seen many of them openly proclaim that they'll vote for McCain if he gets the nomination. Most Democrats around the country, though, aren't filled with such vitriolic bile.

"all Republicans against him" - False. According to polls, a good many intend to cross the aisle to vote for Obama in November if he's the nominee. And that's not even counting Independents.

[Bullet1987]

66. The same thing could be said about Hillary who I think they despise more than Obama

[mzmolly]

40. I kind of thought so too. But, she wont get the nomination again if she loses

this time and takes Obama with her. She'll be as good as done IMHO.

[Raine]

41. I have no doubt

that is Hillary's goal to set herself up for 2012. :-(

[PatGund]

57. Wouldn't suprise me at this point

She's made it clear it's all about what's good for her, not what's good for the country

[babylonsister]

42. Unreal. Is that why she's trying to sabotage Obama? Some Dem. nt

[LVjinx]

45. Which candidate ran ads in SC, calling the other a liar who would say anything? Hint: Obama

How's that for sabotage? Think, if Hillary gets the nomination, R's might play that ad for us?

[babylonsister]

47. Do you have a link? Oh, and there's

snipergate
NAFTA
SCHIP vote
tax records
Bill in SC getting chastized by Leahy, Kennedy, Kerry and Clyburn for fomenting race baiting...I'm sure I'll think of more. But get back to me on what ads Obama ran in SC. Thanks!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5240993

[MrSlayer]

44. As usual they are way behind the times.

That has been the strategy since the week leading up to the Texas and Ohio primaries.

[me b zola]

62. Good to see you, MrSlayer. I've missed seeing you around.

Yeah, I believe the sinister strategy began just prior to South Carolina, really gained full steam prior to TX & OH.

[Seabiscuit]

48. The panels on MSNBC lately have been full of bunk .. do these people get anything right?

I think Tweety should stick to dancing.

[DerekJ]

51. kick

[crankychatter]

52. As long as the MIC PACs Win Clinton will be HAPPY

It's not just 2012 or personal ambition

[Medusa]

55. It's her only hope

she knows she's done for this election cycle, and she's just trying to improve her chances to be the "inevitable" nominee in 2012.

[tammywammy]

59. Well, she sure didn't jump on the Kerry bandwagon either

:shrug:

[DesEtoiles]

61. kick

[culacano]

64. Chris Matthews on Hillary: "I hate her. I hate her. All that she stands for."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801110014

[Kermit77]

67. Even the ladies on the View are begging Clinton to get out!

I heard Joy Behar (a major Hillary fan) saying today that Hillary should get out and let Barack run against McCain. She wants a democrat in the White House.

[culacano]

69. Hillar is not forcing anyone to not vote for Obama in the GE

The primaries and the GE are two separate things.
Plus Obama is a uniter. He will re-unite whoever leaves his side anyway.

[Life Long Dem]

70. We saw what she offers.

From plants to staging sniper attacks the her terror means more of the same. I wish her luck.