If it is honestly true that Senator Clinton is mathematically "finished" as many maintain,

[Mike03]

then I do wish that she would step aside. It would be very important to the tactical strategy of our party that she do so.

This election is becoming a national trauma for some of us. It's a bit sad to me that anyone has to lose this election on our side, because I admired nearly every single one of our candidates, from Kucinich and Biden to Obama and Clinton. But it's time to stop jacking off. I don't see a single reason why Clinton should stay in the race if it is true that she cannot possibly win the nomination.

And there are strategic reasons for what I'm saying. If Senator Clinton drops out, then the Repukes can shoot their wad on Obama early instead of bifurcating their efforts on both Clinton and Obama. If they are going to try to swiftboat him, better now than in September.

Time does matter. McCain has nothing, but he will try to shoot Obama down. Let's just get that over with, and that can only happen if Clinton steps aside.

ON EDIT: If she is not finished, I apologize for making this post at all. But last night I was listening to a self-proclaimed "Presidential Scholar" named John Rothmann, who I trust. He is a Clinton supporter, but he said there's no chance that Obama cannot be the front runner.

Anyway, I just don't know...

[leftofcool]

1. a national trauma?

She will stay in the race until one candidate reaches 2025 in delegates. Super delegates will decide who wins and who is the most electable.

[Tellurian]

24. How can Hillary be finished if Superdelgates defect from Obama

due to his unpopularity after the Wright debacle to her?

[Cassandra]

25. What makes you think they're so eager to defect?

They well remember the 90's, when we lost control of Congress and many statehouses. Have the Clintons lifted a finger, then or lately, to build the party?

[Tellurian]

51. Yes, Hillary's running for the Presidency or haven't you heard?

Superdelegates can change candidates whenever they wish..

Just because they are with Obam now, doesn't mean to Nomination night.

[Cassandra]

65. Of course the SDs can change candidates...

and some of them are moving away from Hillary. Those who've resisted Hillary up till now should not be assumed to be hers automatically. They may have some very good reasons to not support her.

[Tellurian]

100. Hillary has earned everything she;s got..

the next several weeks, with Obama as a witness in the developing Rezko Trial, will reveal an involvement more than Obama ever wanted to acknowledge of his close association with the Chicago underworld. I'm not at all optimistic this is something he can overcome.

Hillary has been thoroughly vetted. At least we know with her in the WH, she is the real deal completely capable of pulling us out of the quagmire Bush has put this country in.

[Cassandra]

101. thoroughly vetted = open tax returns

We're not there yet and the longer she drags her feet about it, the worse it looks.

[Tellurian]

108. The law states April 15th as the deadline..

so stamp your feet until then. It won't do you any good though, except maybe give your bunions a little excitement.

[Cassandra]

111. Since we're talking about several years...

of tax returns, April 15th has come and gone several times by now. And leave my bunions out of this.

[Hawkeye-X]

105. All I can say to you, Tellurian....

And I see your webmaster managed to fix his website. Let's see how long it stays fixed.

And no, Hillary is not thorougly vetted. She has gotten new scandals of her own - SCHIP and Bosnia now.

Also, Rezko, as you say, is now more of a Clinton problem than Obama's (and he's been thoroughly vetted, as you like to say, of the Rezko affair) - have you bothered googling "Individual H" yet?

She has 17 or so other problems to answer for. Don't ask me for 'em - I've already posted 'em, and noone has the answer for 'em. If you want to know 'em - google the New Republic for 'em.

Hawkeye-X

[Tellurian]

109. Breaking: Obama on the witness list for Rezko Trial..

Just thought you needed an update to keep up!

http://www.rezkowatch.blogspot.com/2008/03/one-degree-of-separation-obama-and.html

[Eric Condon]

107. You just answered your own question.

"Have the Clintons lifted a finger, then or lately, to build the party?"

"Yes, Hillary's running for the Presidency."

Her running for president is NOT in any way helping to build the party. It IS helping to keep the DLC in power and to keep her own political ambitions at the forefront.

It has nothing to do with the party. As far as the party goes, she's doing her best to tear down our odds-on nominee and doing McCain's dirty work for him.

She's not doing the party any favors, nor has she ever.

[RC]

29. What Wright debacle?

The good Reverend not only spoke the truth, he was quoting a well respected white diplomat from the Carter era.

[Tellurian]

49. so what? He's a loony tune now. Who does he think he is God Damning America!

[Honeycombe8]

79. It's not impossible, as such. It's impossible, if ethics and party leaders are followed,

while paying attention to winning in November. In other words, it is technically possibly for her to win, if superdelegates defy their purpose and their party leaders and their constituents, and voters, and vote for her (it'd have to be a whole bunch of 'em to do that, for her to win). But she would never be President if that happened, because if the superdelegates voted for her, despite the popular vote and the pledged delegates being on Obama's side, then that would split the party, and the Obama voters wouldn't vote for Clinton in November. Furthermore, some would leave the party entirely, at least for awhile.

Such a move by the superdelegates would hurt the Dem. Party for many years to come. So the party leaders have decreed that that will not happen - meaning the superdelegates won't be "naming" their own candidate, despite who the voters have voted for.

The shady area comes in with MI and FL. If those delegates are seated, and she gets a lot of them (remember that Obama will get some of them, too), she will still be far behind Obama in pledged delegates. But some superdelegates could pledge to her at that point, legitimately, esp. after she wins PA (virtually everyone assumes she'll win PA).

But that still doesn't put her ahead of Obama. All that does is buy some time, and keep him from surging further ahead. It also does some damage to the Dem. Party.

In the meantime, since Clinton has bought some time, it is possible that Obama will do himself in by doing or saying something, etc. It's possible. I think this is what she is hoping for. Then Obama would be convinced to drop out.

It's a dangerous strategy. A dirty strategy. And it harms the Dem. Party. This is a very weird election cycle.

[Drachasor]

90. Well, the full quote was "God Damn America as long as she treats people as less than human"

One could argue that Wright is stuck in the past, rather successfully, and hence he was really damning the present America at all.

Or is your sentiment that "God Damn America for segregation" is out of line?

[Tellurian]

52. How come you starless non supporters of DU refuse to read whats been posted?

[RC]

58. Not only do I have a star, I have also been here longer than you.

And being reality based, what I read depends on how clued in or clueless the poster is. You I read not so much as I prefer objectivity.

[AntiFascist]

32. Defect? You mean like Richardson? n/t

[Botany]

34. Superdelegates are going to Obama @ 65 vs 5 from Feb 5

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/us/politics/22richard...

<Mr. Richardson is the 62nd superdelegate to endorse Mr. Obama since Feb. 5, compared with fewer than five who have moved into Mrs. Clinton’s column since then.

The move by Mr. Richardson could give license to other superdelegates who had been holding back, at the request of the Clintons. His endorsement could prove particularly potent with this group because of the way he chastised Mrs. Clinton for the tone of the campaign, and his call for the party to unify around one candidate.>

[guruoo]

45. They can still go back you know.

Not likely, but there ain't no law stopping them should they decide to do so.

[kirby]

2. As I said in a previous thread...

Her only strategy is to go to the convention and get the superdelegates to override both the popular and pledged delagate votes. Its a long shot strategy that has a small chance of success, but hurts the party. It hurts because while we dont have a candidate, McCain flys around the world looking 'Presidential' and 'Commander in Chief' like on the evening news. You can see the polls have already shifted to McCain since he is running for the General Election now, whereas we Dems are stuck in a Primary battle.

[Ravy]

7. She has a decent shot at the popular vote lead.

Not a lock, by any imagination.

I agree that if Obama wins the popular vote, he will win the nomination. Hillary winning the popular vote *might* let her win the nomination. It all still favors Obama.

[KittyWampus]

21. THERE IS NO POPULAR VOTE! There is no such thing. The Dem Primary has caucuses which make "popular"

meaningless.

[Ravy]

26. Of course there is a popular vote.

If not, why does your guy claim to be leading in it?

You have a good argument as to whether it is fair to use it or not, and fair to count FL and MI in it, but to simply dismiss it and say that it does not exist is a strategic mistake. Thankfully it is one that just Obama supporters, and not the Obama campaign are ignoring.

I can't see any superdelegates holding out their vote for a second ballot if Obama wins both the pledged (almost certain) and the popular vote (less certain, but fairly likely).

[TheDoorbellRang]

35. Her chances of "winning" the popular vote are negligible, too

see phrigndumass' thread on this.

[Ravy]

44. I wouldn't call them that.

I think most will count Florida, rightly or wrongly. Both names were on the ballot and for superdelegates to tell those voters that even their personal vote doesn't matter would be another slap in the face we don't need.

and 500k could be made up in PA alone if the current trends hold.

[high density]

70. Some caucuses do not return a number of voters

Which is why a popular vote total is flawed. If this is how it was supposed to work, it should have been set up this way before the process started.

Obama points out he's leading because Clinton likes this metric (probably because it disenfranchises some caucus goers) and yet she's still way behind even when using her own fuzzy math schemes.

[joshcryer]

31. We have data on the vast majority of the primaries and caucuses, and superdelegates will consider...

...that data. This is a fact.

[SoCalDem]

89. Delegates..delegates ..delegates ..delegates

That's what primaries are all about..

Popular vote is MEANINGLESS since caucus states sometimes do not even COUNT or report popular vote..and expecially this time around, they are meaninless, since Rush Limbaugh is actively tampering with the elections..

Popular votes will always favor the people who win BIG in BIG blue states, but those same big states will most likely "go blue" in the General..primaries are dem v dem so of course, one will always get more votes..but it's still the delegates that matter..

and all the votes from early states that went to "others' who are long gone, would have gone to the remaining two, if they were the only two in the early states...

the eventual two have 100% to divide 2 ways in the later states..and in the beginning the 100% is often divided 8 ways or more..

That's why they set it up for delegates.. as people drop out, their delegates are up for grabs between the remaining candidates..

[Melinda]

13. Many of these SD's are up for re-election in Nov.... no way in hell those SD's will vote...

against their own self-interest.

None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

It's over for Clinton, and she needs to put the good of the party before her own ego.

[Ravy]

27. You raise a great point....

The Democratic party as a whole is pretty evenly divided over Obama or Clinton.

By choosing one over the other is that not against their own self-interest, as long as there is a possibility of getting them both on the same ticket?

Personally, I think this is what most of them are holding out for.

[Seeker30]

97. Then Kerry and Kennedy needs to support Clinton

Since they are voting against their own interests.

[Botany]

3. Done deal!

If it is honestly true that Senator Clinton is mathematically "finished" as many maintain?

Yes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5207472

Politico: "Clinton has virtually no chance of winning"
The big political news of the moment is the gauntlet thrown down by Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen of the Politico, who declared Hillary Clinton's campaign dead in an article published Friday afternoon. VandeHei and Allen also ask what's keeping the media from acknowledging this. They write:

[Ravy]

4. She isn't mathematically finished.

But it is not looking likely that she will get the nomination.

No one is mathematically finished until one of them reaches the threshold. You have to ask yourself why the remaining superdelegates are holding off from an endorsement. I can't believe that they are still deliberating. I think something is in the works.

[leftofcool]

11. Yes there is something

If Obama continues to slide with Democratic voters and white voters, he can't win the GE and the super delegates know this. That does not mean they wouldn't nomintate him anyway.

[Ravy]

17. Of course.

And they won't know at the time of our nomination that he couldn't turn it back around. I am wondering if they are all sitting around waiting to get the nod from someone or some group. These people are all politically active and I cannot believe they have not decided.

Personally, I think they will approach the leader to take the other as a VP nominee, or withhold their vote. But they may all be waiting around so that it goes to the second ballot so Gore gets in.

I really have no insight as to what in particular they may be waiting for, or even if they are all waiting for the same nod from the same people. I just know that each of them, just by being a superdelegate, are politically active and I can't believe they are not indicating which way they will go out of some sense of adding drama to this.

[TheDoorbellRang]

36. I don't think they will endorse Obama en masse

I would think it'd be in their interest to have one of the primaries put him over the top, rather than have it look like they did. They can continue to trickle in with endorsements over the next two months, and have the Oregon and Kentucky primaries on 5/20 be the ones to put him over 2024.

[grantcart]

62. She is mathematically finished for getting 50% of the pleged delegates

and the Clinton campaign has admitted that.

[Oleladylib]

5. It isn't over until it's over and I say take every day of the remaining

4 months, Hillary! Everyday! If Hillary is not the "answer" than neither is Obama and it is time for the "quiet" ones to step up and be available.

[MadHound]

96. Oh, so you want four more months of bitterness and acrimony,

As Hillary tries to tear down Obama in a futile effort to get the nomination. Four more months of Hillary doing McCain's work. Four more months of purposeless divisiveness that alienates ever more people from the party. Four more months of rancor and hatred that will, in the end, tear the party apart and allow McCain to win in a walk.

Some Democrat you are:eyes:

[Selatius]

6. Hillary can still win if she overrides the pledged delegate count with super delegates.

I would assume she is going to go all the way to convention. She doesn't quit so easily.

[Big Blue Marble]

39. Then she hands the election to John McCain

on a silver platter. She is done, finished,fini. It is over and Obama has
won. Now we must all wait for Hillary to go through her grief process
and reach a level of acceptance that allows her to withdraw. How many millions
of dollars and precious time lost will be wasted until the queen accepts her
defeat.

[wileedog]

103. Goodbye Democratic Party then

Great strategy Hillary.

I thought she was so worried about disenfranchising MI and FL? Now she is fine with disenfranchising EVERYONE?

[XemaSab]

8. Don't take our word for it, play with the numbers yourself:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/27/obama-clinton-election-oped-cx_jb_0227delegates.html

And remember, Hillary has only gone above 58% in ONE of her previous wins: Arkansas.

[sandnsea]

9. Unless the supers overturn the people

or Obama drops to 10% support, Hillary is finished. She has been since before OH & TX. She did not win the delegates in TX, Obama did. Her entire campaign is as phony as her 35 years experience.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. ... n/t

[roseBudd]

19. If the supers overturn it will be the worst message the DNC could ever send, worse than

what you saw at the beginning of Fahrenheit 911, when one Congressional Black Caucus member after another — solemnly, plaintively, defiantly — file to the podium to be rejected, ironically, by the very one who would be president of more than the Senate, Vice President Gore.

[guruoo]

71. If it all wasn't phoney the GE would be choice between Kucinich and Paul

[sandnsea]

77. Nothing personal

But it is my considered opinion that you have slid under the radar and are here to do nothing but disrupt. So knock yourself out, but don't bother posting to me because I will ignore it.

[guruoo]

80. OK.

[PM7nj]

10. Mark Penn won't let her drop out.

Mark Penn has been racking up millions every month. He is probably telling Hillary to keep going on to the convention, because he's a greedy bastard and wants that $4 million paycheck for another 6 months.

[Big Blue Marble]

42. But, he is not getting paid.

I believe she owes him millions. I think he does not want her to quit
because he cannot accept defeat. It would be really bad for business.

[high density]

73. I think "she owes him" means he's getting paid

He's not donating his time, he's oh so graciously working up a credit plan for her.

[Mike03]

14. I am certainly open to the possibility that Clinton is not "done," but

when I hear a self proclaimed "presidential scholar" like John Rothmann say, without any hesitation whatsoever, that Obama is the frontrunner, I don't know what to think of that.

Part of me is relieved to think we might be able to unite, and not wait until the convention.

Yet, it seems odd to me that Clinton could win many large states yet not still be in the race.

[sandnsea]

23. It's a LIE

Obama has won large states too, WA, VA, GA, IL, TEXAS. They're LYING TO YOU, and the media is helping them. Like always.

[TheDoorbellRang]

38. She would have to win every remaining contest by over 63%

in order to beat Obama in pledged delegates. She won many large states, but so did Obama, plus he won many more states, by much larger margins.

There's only 566 PD's left in the remaining contests. Using AP's totals, Clinton has 1249 PD's to Obama's 1406. There are also 32 PD's not yet committed to either; add those to the 566 and there's 598 PD's still in play. The halfway point to having the majority of PD's is 1627.

At 1249, Clinton needs 378 PD's -- 63% of those remaining -- to hit 1627
At 1406, Obama needs 221 PD's -- 37% of those remaining -- to hit 1627

So no, she's not done -- just like a football game with a score of 38-21 isn't done in the fourth quarter with one minute left.

[bhikkhu]

84. She ran a "large states campaign", rather than a 50 states like Obama

A large states campaign is easier and cheaper, and can be quite successful if the margins of victory are sufficient to offset losing the delegates of smaller states. And there is always the political expectation that the voters will fall in line and vote for the "inevitable" winner, even where she has not campaigned.

Her loss here comes about because Obama ran a masterful 50 state campaign, and Hillary's margins in the big states she won were not substantial.

[L0oniX]

110. Indeed ...she paid a huge price for ignoring the small "insignificant" states...

which turned out to be not so insignificant. Almost reminds me of the race between the tortoise and the hare with the hare jumping on all the large states and the tortoise slowly moving on all the insignificant states.

[Yukari Yakumo]

15. It's the two minute warning and HRC is down 42-3 and Obama has possession of the ball.

Though the game isn't technically over, there's virtually no hope of her winning now.

Even if HRC wins every single delegate in Pennsylvania, she'd still have to win every state, Guam, and PR to tie Obama.

HRC is very Bush-like in her arrogance and lack of hubris. She won't admit the war is lost.

[roseBudd]

16. If the Democratic party gives the nomination to Hillary after counting on loyal African Americans to

vote for every white face with a D after their name for decades, they will have screwed the pooch.

Kind of how the GOP has screwed the pooch regarding making inroads with Hispanic voters with their antiimmigrant vitriol..

[grantcart]

18. The Clinton campaign has admitted that they cannot reach the convention with a majority

of pledged delegates selected by primaries and caucuses. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php

[Why Syzygy]

20. My home page is news.google.com

For the past week or so none of the headlines are about HER. The news is all about Obama. She is history.

She cannot pull this thing off in a legitimate manner.

[kevinmc]

22. She still has a 10% chance ..... and her cash is in the red.

One big fact has largely been lost in the recent coverage of the Democratic presidential race: Hillary Rodham Clinton has virtually no chance of winning.

Her own campaign acknowledges there is no way that she will finish ahead in pledged delegates. That means the only way she wins is if Democratic superdelegates are ready to risk a backlash of historic proportions from the party’s most reliable constituency.

Unless Clinton is able to at least win the primary popular vote — which also would take nothing less than an electoral miracle — and use that achievement to pressure superdelegates, she has only one scenario for victory. An African-American opponent and his backers would be told that, even though he won the contest with voters, the prize is going to someone else.

People who think that scenario is even remotely likely are living on another planet.

As it happens, many people inside Clinton’s campaign live right here on Earth. One important Clinton adviser estimated to Politico privately that she has no more than a 10 percent chance of winning her race against Barack Obama, an appraisal that was echoed by other operatives.

In other words: The notion of the Democratic contest being a dramatic cliffhanger is a game of make-believe.........

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=D1491726-3048-5C12-0099B6F95FDE6303

[guruoo]

47. Oh dat fat lady...

[backscatter712]

28. Mathematically speaking, she's not quite finished, but...

The odds of her winning enough delegates to catch up and win (by both winning the last primaries and caucuses by OMGWTFBBQ-huge margins by some miracle; and getting superdelegates to swing to her) are insanely remote.

Quite frankly, Obama would have to eat a baby live on CNN to lose. They tried to arrange that with the Wright "scandal" but it turns out having your preacher saying unwise, angry things, isn't quite up there with eating babies.

[joshcryer]

30. It is mathematically impossible for *either* candidate to win without the superdelegates.

[guruoo]

33. If she's finished, then why don't the Obama people lay off her?

[Big Blue Marble]

40. Simple....

because she will not quit.

[guruoo]

43. Oh yeah, continued swiftboating is SURE to make her quit, all right.

Then we're getting what ya askin' for, I guess.

[Yukari Yakumo]

91. It's because...

Obama has her in the middle of the ring with the scorpion deathlock. We're just waiting for her to tap-out.

[wileedog]

104. While she slings mud?

Then everyone can start talking about how "soft" he is and how he won't be able to cope with the Republican attack machine.

How many no-win scenarios are you going to put him through?

[IDemo]

37. There is still a statistical chance of her winning

There is also a chance that an asteroid will strike the Amazon in Colombia and brew up ten million gallons of Nariño Supremo coffee.

[depakid]

41. First of all- that's just a bunch of propaganda from the Obama camp

Just as the Hillary inevitability polling numbers were last fall.

Unless there's an implosion, neither candidate will secure the nomination without superdelegates- who were "designed" to prevent another McGovern style defeat.

You'll hear Obama supporters rant on about "math," enfranchisement and "popular vote" and all sorts of things when it comes to this issue, but rest assured, most are being disingenuous.

Why?

Because when it comes to issues like the revote in Michigan and Florida -or the meager turnout caucus processes, most could care less about "popular vote," fairness or enfranchisement.

There aren't over riding principles here- it's all about their candidate.

And the fact is, neither candidate has the straight up delegates- and there are still elections to be held in other states, where people deserve a say.

[sandnsea]

46. If you advocate overturning voters

and the delegates the voters chose. That's what you have to be saying if you advocate the superdelegates choosing over WE THE PEOPLE. It's not propaganda, it's fucking reality that YOU of all people would be screaming about if a Republican were pulling this shit.

[guruoo]

53. You don't know for sure what the majority will want in the end, which is

exactly why you guys have continued to swiftboat her.

So go ahead, keep talkin the trash!
I know ya!

:rofl:

[PM7nj]

55. How has she been swiftboated? nt

[guruoo]

56. Duhhhh!

[sandnsea]

57. The majority has already spoken

She can't catch up. What is it about 'running away with the nomination' that you don't understand.

[guruoo]

59. She may not in votes, but she may in voter opinion.

which could potentially sway superdelegates.

Anyway, if you really thought she couldn't win, you would
have already given up on her, and refocused your wrath towards McCain.

Hey! BTDT! I know ya!

[sandnsea]

67. Votes are what measures voter opinion

And I've watched the DLC Democrats long enough to any damn thing is possible with them.

[guruoo]

69. Oh yeah

IMO, best thing to do would be to eliminate both caucuses, and superdelegates altogether.
But until then, I suppose we'll have to just deal with the system we have.

[sandnsea]

72. And face the reality that Obama has won with that system n/t

[guruoo]

83. When it happens, yes.

[depakid]

64. I advocate a winning ticket -plain and simple

I've never liked the superdelegate situation, and I got a great big does of it in 1984 when, as a pretty young pup, I worked with the Hart campaign.

As you may recall, we ended up with a losing candidate too (one almost everyone at the time pegged as a loser from the outset)- and the country never recovered.

Machine politics were much stronger back then than they are today, and the process was abused for sure.

Nevertheless, in the current situation -I can easily foresee scenarios where they could serve their ostensible purpose- and play a role in ensuring we don't get stomped... again.

And for the umpteenth time- that does not in any way imply that I support the Clintons. Quite the contrary- I think Oregon (my home in the states) fares much better with Obama.

What it means is that there's a safety valve in place -and NEITHER candidate in this race can win without these types of delegates.

Under the rules in place, they can choose to vote how they see fit. One way or another -or none of the above.

As I've said before, historically this is how conventions went.

I sometimes like to imagine how Chicago might have been if RFK hadn't been killed that fateful day in June. I think all our lives would have been VERY different- despite the fact that he didn't have the delegates, either.

[sandnsea]

74. I advocate the candidate WE choose n/t

[depakid]

87. I guess we'll have to disagree

When it comes right down to it, I'm willing to do what it takes to win.

[PM7nj]

54. The Politico even says she is done...

The Politico is hardly a propaganda machine for Obama. They have written numerous hit pieces on him.

[depakid]

60. The politico is a such a trusted source

Remind me: how long has it been around?

[high density]

75. Winning votes and pledged delegates is propaganda now?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Obama's wins are already in the bag. They aren't subject to revision. Those numbers aren't polls for something happening in the future, they're cold hard facts that are history. If you want to dream of pledged delegates switching over to Hillary, you can dream that all you want but it won't happen.

Fairness is sticking to the rules. Obama is winning more delegates, Hillary is winning fewer. Obama is winning. If the Super Delegates want to now override the grassroots, that is certainly their option, but I think it will also destroy the party. Whatever their agenda they need to decide it now instead of late August, because the fact that Obama is leading in pledged delegates is very very unlikely to change between now, June, or the convention. The sooner the better because having this Clinton thing go on indefinitely to stroke her ego is not helping the party or our chances in November. Either give her the nomination or give it to Obama. In the end neither can get to 2024 without the supers, so it might as well come sooner rather than later.

[depakid]

94. Well, sorry to burst your bubble too

Neither candidates "wins" are in the bag until the convention.

[Yukari Yakumo]

92. Having a small group of people overturning the will of the people...

Why does this remind me of December of 2000 for some reason?

[depakid]

93. "the will of the people"

I suppose that begs a question.

What is the the will of the people? Is it what 1% think?

2%?

Does it mean that under any circumstance, everyone should walk (or get drug) right off a cliff?

[gmudem]

48. The only way Clinton wins

is if the SD's decide to go for her. And if that happens, then that will be as disgraceful as it gets. The Democratic Party will be absolutely ripped to pieces.

If you Clintonites think people won't vote for Obama because of Wright, you should think about how many people won't vote for Clinton if she steals the nomination away from the actual voters.

[guruoo]

61. You realize SD's might be swayed by a legit change in public opinion

which is why you continue to swiftboat her, instead of refocusing on the real enemy, John McCain.

[MarjorieG]

50. Only way if she ruins Obama, and can claim momentum as selling point.

[rug]

63. Not unless he can pull 400+ delegates out of his ass.

[wileedog]

66. Irrelevant argument

Hillary can't pull enough delegate out of anyone's ass.

[rug]

68. In the 40 days you've been here, surely you've learned the winning candidate needs 2,024.

I don't see them.

[high density]

81. We know the winner will be decided by the super delegates

The question is whether or not they will "endorse" the will of the voters and pledged delegates or decide to destroy the party and give the nomination to Clinton. Unless Clinton can pull unending 64% wins out of her ass, she's going to lose the pledged delegate count plain and simple. The race now is for super delegates and Clinton obviously desires the party to implode so she can be on the ballot in November.

[rug]

82. Except no one knows the will of the voters. You must believe there are no Democrats in MI and FL.

[high density]

85. Did we know the will of the voters in 2004 with Kerry?

It seems so, and I recall that being sewed up within a few weeks of Iowa. I don't know why people are suddenly surprised that a primary season with staggered voting has these limitations.

The fact that the state parties in FL and MI voided themselves by breaking the rules is a different matter altogether, but you know that of course.

[rug]

86. It was known long before March 23. Can't say that in 2008.

[wileedog]

106. And certainly in your great wisdom accrued

from hanging out here you understand that Hillary CANNOT get 2024 delegates unless the SDs overturn the PDs votes?

And even Pelosi has come out and said that is not going to happen?

Please, continue to condescend....

[sueragingroz]

76. of course he is the front runner... but that doesn't make him the winner

if he sinks far down in the polls between now and August (say down to 30% or so) and he is no longer a viable candidate, she will remain as an option.

that is what she is banking on.

that and the fact that her prospects are continuing to be excellent in the states that will win the dems the WH in the GE.

[robbedvoter]

78. Florida? Michigan? remaining states?

[cooolandrew]

88. He won in the potomac. Normally the cndidate behind pulls out to avoid the damage of a SD vote.

[depakid]

95. I don't know what Americans think is "normal" anymore

Many think what's normal is what they may have seen in the last cycle or two.

You can apply that reasoning to a lot of things, I reckon.

[quantass]

98. YES, she is FINISHED mathematically but its the Media that wants the drama to continue

[ScreamingMeemie]

99. Not a national trauma, but a huge joke.

To not have one candidate standing up there that I can believe in. Heartbreaking, but not traumatic.

[shayes51]

102. Thankfully, she's still in the race.

Thank you, Hillary!