Not voting Kerry? What will you gain? An honest question,

[blondeatlast]

because I simply cannot fathom why 4 more years of this administration will do anything positive for Liberals/Progressives.

I voted DK in the primary (though I didn't LOVE him) but I'm damn terrified of the continuation of this administration.

Please note: I'm addressing this to those that simply will not vote for Kerry--not those with profound reservations who WILL, since I think you see the big picture.

[physioex]

1. Shrub has the intelligence of a Chicken McNugget.....

I would be hard to do worse.

[mike_c]

2. ok, I'll bite....

Because liberal progressives in the Democratic party are tired of ALWAYS having the choice between a repig monster and a dem "moderate." We're always told that "this" election is too important to lose. If ever there was a time for the Democratic party to get behind a progressive, it's now-- when the nation could have choose between a known neo-con piss-wad and a liberal, democratic, but better by default progressive. This is the election that the progressives have been waiting for-- doing our duty for-- forever. BUSH CAN'T WIN against a real opposition choice, an anti-Bush.

Nonetheless, the Democratic party is turning its back on the left, and again asking us to take one for the cause. I'm sick to death of it. I've been doing this since 1973. I've squandered more voting years than I likely have left. It's time for me to make a stand for what I believe in.

I'm a liberal. I'm proud of it. I won't vote for a "moderate" who tries to play both sides of the aisle. Never again.

edited to clarify my thinking.... :smoke:

double edited- second part of the question: what will I gain? Pride. Self respect. Nothing tangible, but I've got to look in the mirror every morning.

[trumad]

3. Well as you stare, enjoy looking at a Bush Enabler

[mike_c]

4. ok, dammit, I'm sick and tired of this slander....

The real "Bush enablers" are the Democratic party moderates who VOTED FOR THE IWR, and who now want to "stay the course," who voted for the USA PATRIOT Act, who voted for the Bush fiscal harvest for the rich, who supported the sham prescription drug benefits, and who helped Bushco create what will one day become the Amerikan secret police, the Department of Fatherland, er, Homeland Security. The dems who stood beside him when he announced that he would finally "get" Saddam Hussein. The dems who STILL mutter that those WMDs are out there in the desert somewhere. Don't talk to me about enabling Bush. Look for stains on the Democratic leadership's collective blue dress. I despise George Bush. I loathe his politics. I hope to live long enough to piss on his grave one day.

I can live with what I see in the mirror.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

5. I didn't know Gitmo had mirrors.

Because with a lame-duck prez and his appointments to the SCOTUS, I'll be seeing you there.

[mike_c]

6. We'll be in good company.

[blondeatlast]

19. True enough--hope we have adjacent cells.

I like intelligent debate!

[RafterMan]

7. Did you start this thread

just to slam the people who gave you an honest response?

Lame.

[mike_c]

8. I didn't get the impression that BAL was slamming....

But on the other hand, I'm pretty clueless.

[RafterMan]

9. Vote your conscience and end up in a concentration camp?

Sounds pretty typical to me.

I'm voting Kerry as soon as the ink on the ballot is dry, but the endless, hysterical fearmongering here vs. those who might not is tedious.

[blondeatlast]

13. I asked an honest question--maybe got snip with a response, but

I'm a DK democrat--far left, nearly socialist, believe in peace and diplomacy, etc, ad infinitum.

But I'm effing terrified of what 4 more years will do to our country.

Look at it this way--if theis Iraq torture mess had happened in a previous administration, all hell would break loose. But the current administration has hand tamed the press, controls the information coming out of the war, has openly defied the UN, has called for tacit overturn of the Geneva Convention, squandered labor rights, civil rights, education funding, created a poor-vs.-middle class economy in order to create a "servant class" to the US Corporation.

What, exactly, will 4 more years of Bush do for the ABKs? I assume that the ABK crowd is intelligent enough to see that 3rd parties/indies don't have a snowball's chance to defeat Bush.

Is their "pride" worth the cost?

We're in a war right here on our own soil, IMHO.

[RafterMan]

20. Why do Democrats run to the center?

Because that's where the votes are.

Why would Democrats run to the left? Because that's where the votes are. Or they would be, if the left started voting against centrist Democrats. I really think it's that simple.

So it looks to me like people are using their vote to demand that politicians listen to their agenda. What would you have them do, light themselves on fire? If mainstream Dems are so terrified by the idea of having to win without the left, maybe they could try throwing them a bone or two.

[Terry_M]

21. Exactly!

If we keep voting for centrists no matter how dissatisfied we are, they'll ignore us more and more each election.

[tinanator]

10. Lets assume I dont, why wouldnt I?

Well top three reasons I can think of are: Kerry's attitude towards Chavez, Kerry's support for a thoroughly bogus program initiated by an unelected despot, and my personal favorite- in retaliation for the crap dispensed by allegedly Democratic but definitely fascists who think they can tell other people who to vote for, despite the huge fundamental disparities between a certain candidate and the voters needs, wants and beliefs. This smarmy grade school fascism is tailor made to dissuade voters from toeing the line, but idiots continue to insult other citizens as if it is the right thing to do. #4 with a bullet- if Kerry chooses Edwards as a running mate I would sooner be shot by these party enforcers than throw a vote their warloving way.

[blondeatlast]

16. If Edwards is chosen, you'll have me on your side in a NY minute.

God help us all--and he's a runner, since he'll bring in the South.

Yep--choosing Edwards would lose even me.

[Pastiche423]

11. I will retain my conscience, ethics and principals

Every single day that goes by, Kerry gives me one more reason not to vote for him.

The 2002 mid-terms was the LAST time I voted for the lesser.

[John_H]

12. I will be soooooooo rad, dude, that my radness will need it's own tat.

[mac56]

14. Unemployed, stripped of civil rights, breathing in poison -

but at least they'll feel like they made a statement.

[hippiechick]

15. First of all ...

Because it is my option as a registered voter not to vote for Kerry, if he does not deserve my vote. "Let them call me rebel, and welcome, for I would gladly suffer the misery of devils, than make a whore of my soul." ~ Thomas Paine.

Second, this country is in such deep doo-doo already that Harry Frickin Houdini could be elected and still not be able to fix what's wrong, even if he did have the best, most liberal intentions at heart (which, by the way I doubt about Kerry despite his much touted voting record - this is a new ballgame).

Third, if the GOP retains or increases control over the House/Senate, nothing a Dem president sends them is going to see the light of day anyway.

You asked for an honest opinion, you got it.

:hippie:

[blondeatlast]

17. Little can be fixed in 4 years, granted. But liberals sure as

hell won't make any ground as things stand now.

Christ--any step to the left is an improvement, IMHO. LIEberman would be an improvement (Did I really say that?--I am feeling desperate.)

[CharlesGroce]

18. ALRIGHT HERE GOES

Well first and foremost, as some of my predecessors have stated, Bush isn't even the problem, he's the problems PR man. And so Kerry wants THAT job, not the job of representing you and me.

Secondly, John Kerry is the richest Senator in US history, and has no idea what it's like to be a poor single black mother who works all day every day in order to put her children through day care and feed them McDonald's when she gets home. And I don't mean that John Kerry hasn't lived this life, as I have not either, but rather that this sort of PRESCRIPTION for life is one that is terrible, and perpetuated by the very corporations John Kerry wants to give a 5% tax cut to next year, should his silly strategy woo the media into electing him.

Thirdly, I don't form my beliefs around those who would represent me, those who would represent me should agree with me!

And if George Bush should happen to win again, because John Kerry couldn't garner the votes to beat him, don't blame me. Blame your silly candidate who decided that being attractive to conservative voters was more important than appealing to the American people, who happen not to be conservative as you and I well know. And then maybe, about 2005, or 2006, you and I may join hands and demand an end to this nonsense, and not only rid this diseased country of a terrible PR man, but also his employers.

[rasputin1952]

22. Kerry was not my first choice...

in fact he wasn't even my 4th choice; but I want bush out. I will vote Kerry, and I will hope that he moves to the left once he's in. Centrist? I don't know, people say all kinds of things in trying to get elected, look at bush:

Increase education
Protect SS
Help the environment
Jobs
Less taxes=increased jobs and productivity
No nation building
Volunteerism
Increased budgets for the VA
Increase in Fed Funding of infrastructure
Etc...ad nauseum

What did we get:

A terrorist attack
A war
Less money to the states
A crumbling infrastructure
Nation building
Increased taxes on the middle and lower classes
A gutted EPA
Environmental destruction at historic levels
VA budget cuts, while sending people to war
the Patriot Act
New attacks on pro-choice
1.6 million jobs lost
Loss of OT pay in the near future
A new voting scandal
Lie after lie after lie after lie...etc...ad nauseum

I tell you what, and I mean this from the heart, I have pride and self esteem too. I want to keep it, 4 more years of bush will destroy this nation, and we will become a third world country. bush creates not just problems, he creates monumental problems, and they need to be addressed. I'm putting my vote with Kerry, because there are no other options. For every vote that does not go top Kerry, either by not voting for president, or voting for Nader...that is one less vote that keeps our country on the wrong track. I cannot equate pride with losing., it just doesn't jibe. Keep the false pride, I will fight for my country with all of my being. You can fight for your pride, but if those of us who really want to move this country back to where it belongs don't vote Kerry...we are committing an act that will leave this country in a state that it cannot recover from

Kerry may not be the answer...but I damn sure KNOW bush is not the answer.

[neverforget]

23. I converted a Nader supporter who thinks Kerry is hardly any

different than Bush. I had to use an argument that was greater than me or himself: our childrens future. Another 4 years of Bush will bring us more war, more debt, more fucking of the non-rich, more poisoning of the environment and AN EXTREME RIGHT WING JUDICIARY whose only duty is to the rich and the Republican Right. If you think that Kerry is no different than Bush, then please, give me some of that Kool-Aid you're drinking because I'll need it to keep my sanity for another 4 years should Bush be re-Selected. And no I don't think Kerry is perfect but I can't think of any person that would be perfect as President either.

If you think that America and the world can survive another 4 years of Bush's Extreme Right Wing Agenda, then please, vote for whoever you want. If Bush can create this much damage in 4 years, just think what another 4 years will be like!

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Why we need to support Kerry in three words...

BALANCE OF POWER!

I don't think people realize how key it is that not only do we have a horrible administration but they have controll of CONGRESS as well. That means they control court appointments, government oversight, and can get their legislation through with only the check of the senate fillibusters. NEVER BEFORE have the neocons controlled the entire government. I want a progressive agenda just as much as the rest of you but at this point I'll settle for a democrat with a big veto stamp.