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Obama CALLS Out Clinton On Pattern Of Lying To Voters!!!!

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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:14 AM
Original message
Obama CALLS Out Clinton On Pattern Of Lying To Voters!!!!


Obama Camp Memo on Clinton “Misleading” Voters

TO: Interested Parties
FR: Obama Campaign
RE: A history of misleading voters
DA: March 20, 2008
______________________________________________________________________________

Senator Clinton likes to claim that she’s been vetted. But there is a salient theme emerging that has not been examined at all in this race: Senator Clinton has consistently made political calculations to deliberately mislead the American people and the voters have noticed. A new Gallup poll <http://www.gallup.com/poll/105097/Perceived-Honesty-Gap-Clinton-Versus-Obama-McCain.aspx> shows a staggering figure: far fewer Americans think Clinton is trustworthy than think she isn’t, by a margin 44-53 percent. And in the exit polling <http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Damage.html> from the most recent primary, Clinton was viewed as honest and trustworthy by only 52 percent of Democratic voters.

For too long, the media has failed to live up to its historic obligation of holding candidates accountable for their contradictions on the campaign trail, and it’s time that Senator Clinton be questioned aggressively about this pattern of misleading voters.

A general election liability

Honesty is a crucial metric in this race because the Democratic nominee is going to be running against John McCain, who is viewed by voters as one of the most trustworthy politicians in America. In the same Gallup poll, McCain scored 67-27 on honesty (with Obama’s honesty rating at 63-29). After eight years of an untrustworthy President, can we really expect that a candidate who is viewed as so much more dishonest than McCain will somehow be able to beat him?

A history of misleading voters

Senator Clinton’s newly released White House schedules—showing a lack of candor on her NAFTA Record, her role in passing FMLA, and her role in key foreign policy decisions—are just the latest in what has become a legacy of misleading voters. On issue after issue, Clinton says one thing while her record says another.

Her Iraq vote. Clinton says she voted for diplomacy, while on the Senate floor at the time she said she was casting a “vote that might lead to war” and doing it “with conviction.”

Foreign Policy Experience. Clinton claims that she’s been “tested” on foreign policy and that she’s experienced in handling foreign crises. But her White House records show that she was consistently absent when critical decisions were being made, and that her trips abroad were largely ceremonial.

The Michigan and Florida primaries. Back when it suited her political purposes she said the Michigan primary “didn’t count for anything” and that she wasn’t leaving her name on the ballot to try to legitimize the results. But now that she desperately needs more votes, she’s doing just that. And despite her pledge not campaign in either state, she held two campaign events in Florida.

Fully vetted. Clinton openly tells voters that she’s been fully “vetted,” choosing to obscure from them the fact that she won’t release her tax returns, earmark requests, or the donors to the Clinton library.

Her position on NAFTA. Clinton tells Ohio voters that she has “been a critic of NAFTA from the very beginning.” Yet her own schedules show that as First Lady she attended at least four meetings to advocate for its original passage.

Her role in passing the Family and Medical Leave Act. Clinton credits herself with “helping to pass” the Family and Medical Leave Act as First Lady. But the 11,000 pages of schedules don’t contain a single mention of her involvement in the issue.

Obama’s religion. In a “60 Minutes” interview, Senator Clinton refused to confirm that Senator Obama is a Christian, even though she knows the facts.

Reverend Wright. Even though it has been reported yesterday that Clinton is pushing Senator Obama’s association with Reverend Wright in attempt to rattle superdelegates, Clinton refused to give a straight answer. She would only say that their campaign “has been making the case that I am the most electable” before shrugging and prompting the next question.

35 Years in Public Service. The oft-repeated Clinton claim that she has 35 years of public service experience is simply false. Fifteen of those years were spent at a law practice.

Lingering questions

It’s time for Hillary Clinton to explain these inconsistencies—and to put an end to the dishonesty. As she campaigns in working-class areas of Pennsylvania, will she finally admit to workers that she was one of the chief proponents of NAFTA? Will she admit to even a basic understanding of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002? Will she drop FMLA from her list of accomplishments?

And if she won’t, will the press call her on it?

IRAQ?

Washington Post Fact Checker Debunks Clinton Claim That She Voted Against Limiting The President’s Authority To Attack Iraq Because She Didn’t Want To Give The U.N. Veto Authority. Clinton, on why she voted against three other important votes during that time period to limit the President’s authority to attack Iraq said “Well, I also voted, Tim, to limit the president’s authority to a year. That was another one of Senator Byrd’s amendments which I strongly supported. It was not successful. I have seen, obviously now, what has occurred by this president’s use of the authority that he was given, and I regret the way that he used authority. But I think it’s important to recognize that the United Nations is a very important tool in international diplomacy, in peacekeeping to bring the world together. But I do not want to give the United Nations a veto over actions taken by any president.” Washington Post fact checker: “There are arguments on both sides about whether the Levin amendment ceded authority to the United Nations. But Clinton is also going too far when she claims that passage of the amendment would have had the effect of subordinating ‘whatever our judgment might be going forward to the United Nations Security Council.’ There was always an escape clause.” <“Meet the Press,” 9/23/07 <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20941413/print/1/displaymode/1098/> ; Washington Post, 2/1/08 <http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/clinton_and_the_iraq_vote.html> >

FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE ACT?

There Are No Mentions Of The Family And Medical Leave Act On Clinton’s Schedule Before Bill Signing It Into Law Even Though She Gives Herself Credit For “Helping To Pass” The Bill. “One notable absence in the 11,000 pages of the former First Lady’s schedule from the National Archives released today — any mention on her schedules of the Family and Medical Leave Act before her husband signed the bill into law. That’s interesting, because in speeches and on her website, the Clinton campaign repeatedly gives Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, credit for “helping to pass” the Family and Medical Leave Act.” http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/family-and-medi.html> >

NAFTA?

Clinton Claimed That She Was A Critic Of NAFTA From The Beginning, But Clinton’s Schedules Show That On NAFTA She “Promoted Its Passage” And She Supported NAFTA In 2003. “Clinton now argues that the North American Free Trade Agreement needs to be renegotiated, but newly released records showed on Wednesday she promoted its passage.” Clinton, at the Cleveland debate, said “You know, I have been a critic of NAFTA from the very beginning. I didn’t have a public position on it because I was part of the (Clinton) administration. But when I started running for the Senate, I have been a critic.” In her memoir, Clinton wrote: “Creating a free trade zone in North America—the largest free trade zone in the world—would expand U.S. exports, create jobs and ensure that our economy was reaping the benefits, not the burdens, of globalization. Although unpopular with labor unions, expanding trade opportunities was an important administration goal. The question was whether the White House could focus its energies on two legislative campaigns at once . I argued that we could and that postponing health care would further weaken its chances.” http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1933416820080320> ; AP, 2/26/08 <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_trade> ; Living History, 182>

COMPLIANCE WITH PARTY RULES?

Clinton Campaigned In Florida And Held Two Events After Signing A Pledge Not To Campaign In Florida. “Hundreds of thousands of people have already voted in Florida and I want them to know I will be there to be part of what they have tried to do to make sure their voices are heard,” said Clinton before jetting to Sarasota and Miami for events on Sunday. The Clinton campaign claims that the senator from New York is abiding by the no-campaigning pledge because Sunday’s two Florida events were technically closed to the public. But the stops were treated as major news events in a state where many Democrats have expressed anger over the absence of the party’s presidential candidates during a period when Florida is overrun by Republican contenders. The truth of the Clinton strategy was writ large in a memo from top strategist Howard Wolfson, who announced on the day of the campaign’s dismal showing in South Carolina that, “Regardless of today’s outcome, the race quickly shifts to Florida, where hundreds of thousands of Democrats will turn out to vote on Tuesday. Despite efforts by the Obama campaign to ignore Floridians, their voices will be heard loud and clear across the country, as the last state to vote before Super Tuesday on February 5.” Her arrival is Sarasota was timed so that she could be photographed with palm trees behind her. “It is a perfect day here in Florida,” declared a bemused candidate who officially was not campaigning in Florida as she posed for the classic Florida campaign photo. http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080128/cm_thenation/1276341> >

Clinton Said Michigan Results Were Fair And Should Be Honored—After Saying It Was Clear That The Michigan Primary Did Not Count For Anything. In March, Clinton Said The Results Of The Michigan Primary Were “Fair And They Should Be Honored.” “Sen. Hillary Clinton on Wednesday warned that millions of people in Florida and Michigan ‘are in danger of being excluded from our democratic process’ if their votes are not counted. … ‘The results of those primaries were fair and they should be honored,’ Clinton told a breakfast gathering hosted by the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce Foundation in Washington.” In October, Clinton said “Well, you know, people in Michigan are flat on their backs. They have the highest unemployment rate in America. They are now grappling finally with what they are going to do with the auto industry. 1 in 10 jobs in America is tied to the auto industry which is – the American auto industry, which as we know is centered in Michigan. You know, it’s clear this election they’re having isn’t going to count for anything. But I just personally didn’t want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever. And then after the nomination we have to go in and repair the damage and be ready to win Michigan in November 2008.”

FOREIGN POLICY?

FactCheck.org: “The Public Record Of Her Actions Shows That Many Of Clinton’s Foreign Policy Claims Are Exaggerated.” “On March 6 Hillary Clinton claimed that, unlike Barack Obama, she and likely Republican nominee John McCain have ‘cross the commander-in-chief threshold.’ In a CNN interview the day before, Clinton had listed five foreign policy accomplishments. We can’t determine how much behind-the-scenes work Clinton did while first lady, and she certainly took an active interest in foreign policy when her husband was president. Moreover, her time as first lady plus her longer Senate career do give Clinton more foreign policy experience than Obama. But the public record of her actions shows that many of Clinton’s foreign policy claims are exaggerated.” http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/hillarys_adventures_abroad.html> >

FOREIGN TRIPS: Clinton’s “Sanitized, Ceremonial Trips Abroad” Were “Hardly Preparation” For Foreign Policy Duties Of Presidency. Hillary Clinton highlights her “extensive travel to more than 80 countries as First Lady and her 1995 women’s rights speech to the U.N. to demonstrate of her foreign policy experience. “But these sanitized, ceremonial trips abroad are hardly preparation for the middle-of-the-night call from the Situation Room.” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20010704/site/newsweek/> , 8/6/07>

NORTHERN IRELAND: Irish Policymakers, Fact Checkers Debunk Clinton’s Exaggerations. FactCheck.org: Clinton’s activities ‘helped bring peace to Northern Ireland.’ Irish officials are divided as to how helpful Clinton’s actions were, and key players agree that she was not directly involved in any actual negotiations.” Politifact.com: “Clinton claimed that she ‘helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland.’ That’s the kind of thing that Mitchell, Hume or Trimble could accurately say. But based on our interviews and research, it’s a stretch for Clinton to say so. Although she played a role, especially with women in Northern Ireland, her statement leaves the impression that she was more involved than she was. We find her statement to be Half True.” “The road to peace was carefully documented, and she wasn’t on it,” says Brian Feeney, an author and former leading Belfast politician. “Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a ‘wee bit silly’ for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province. Washington Post fact checker: “Hillary is making a lot more of her Northern Ireland role on the campaign trail than she did in her memoir “Living History.” <…> her stories of bringing Protestant and Catholic women together have become more dramatic with each retelling. The claim that she brought Catholics and Protestants together “for the first time” seems dubious. This would not be the first time that she has mixed up her chronology.” http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/01/clinton_and_northern_ireland.html> , 1/10/08; AP, 3/8/08 <http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CLINTONS_EXPERIENCE?SITE=CAGRA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT> > http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/392/> ; FactCheck.org, 3/13/08 <http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/hillarys_adventures_abroad.html> ; Telegraph, 3/8/08 <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/08/wuspols108.xml> >

KOSOVO: Washington Post, On Clinton’s Role In Kosovo: “The Record shows That Took An Intelligent Interest In All These Issues, Addressing Conferences And Meeting With Victims Of War, But Did Not Get Involved In Diplomatic Negotiations In An Meaningful Way. Her Role Was More Symbolic Than Substantive.” The Clinton campaign has provided various news clips to support Hillary Clinton’s claim during last night’s debate about “negotiating with governments like Macedonia to open their border again, to let Kosovar refugees in.” The news articles make clear that Clinton visited Albanian refugee camps in Macedonia on May 14, 1999, during the NATO bombing war against Serbia. Macedonia had closed its borders the previous week, in order to stem the flow of Albanian refugees from Kosovo. The Macedonian government reopened the border on May 13, the day before Clinton toured the camps. According to this CNN report, only a few stragglers crossed the border. Clearly, Clinton’s visit to Macedonia helped focus even more international attention on the country and the refugee crisis that resulted from the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Albanians from Kosovo by the Serbian authorities. According to a May 16 Chicago Tribune report cited by the Clinton campaign, Clinton announced the “release of the first $ 2 million in a $ 21 million economic development package for Macedonia” at a meeting with Macedonian government leaders. The question is whether Clinton personally negotiated the deal with the Macedonian government–or U.S. diplomats used her forthcoming visit as an additional incentive to persuade the Macedonian authorities to re-open the border. The sequence of events–first the border reopening, followed by Clinton’s visit to the camps and her meeting with Macedonian government leaders–points to the second scenario…Her role was more symbolic than substantive. http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/01/democratic_debate_jan_30_2008.html> >

RWANDA: NY Times Rebuts Bill And Hillary Clinton’s Claims That Hillary Clinton Asserted Herself On Rwanda. During a brief question and answer period with the audience , the former president was asked about times during his presidency in which the Clinton’s disagreed and which he now acknowledges she was right. One instance, he said, was in not moving quickly to send U.S. troops to fight the genocide in Rwanda in 1994. ‘I think she would have clearly done that,’ he said, noting at the time he had concerns about military activities in Bosnia and that no one knew how bad the situation in Rwanda would turn out to be.” On This Week, George Stephanopoulos asked Hillary Clinton if she had urged Bill Clinton to intervene in Rwanda and she agreed with her husband’s remarks. The New York Times reported, “During those two terms in the White House, Mrs. Clinton did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president’s daily intelligence briefing. She did not assert herself on the crises in Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda.” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/26/us/politics/26clinton.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1198685533-gcihaa8xG62p8zYjBC/PhQ> , 12/26/07> http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/bill_clinton_wife_a_proven_age.html> , 12/10/07; ABC, This Week, 12/30/07>

FULLY VETTED?

Clinton Claims To Be Fully Vetted But Does Not Release Tax Returns And Cites Presidential Privilege On Information Related To Her White House Years, Drawing Criticism Even From Allies. Clinton’s “gates-drawn stance raised concerns that shadow her presidential bid today — that she reacts with a siege mentality under pressure, retreating behind a restrictive wall of presidential and attorney privilege. ‘There’s no question that her first instinct was to protect herself and the president,’ said former Clinton chief of staff Leon E. Panetta.” Roger Simon wrote, “Take the matter of her tax returns. Obama has released his, and Clinton won’t release hers, she says, until after she is the Democratic nominee. Why? She gives no reason. She says she files an ethics statement with the Senate, which is true, but so does Obama, and yet he also has released his tax returns. Clinton refuses to do so until after the Democratic convention. Does this make sense to anybody? If she is going to do it eventually, why not do it now, while Democrats are still voting on her? Keeping the returns secret just raises doubts and suspicions and kicks a hole in the case that she has been fully vetted.” The New York Times editorial board wrote, “Of the leading contenders, so far, only Senator Barack Obama has released his full income-tax returns — a level of disclosure once routine for candidates after the political corruption of Watergate. Release of the tax returns should not be made conditional on winning the nomination, as Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has made it.” http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-hillarydecisions27nov27,0,3096734.story?coll=la-home-center> ; Politico <http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=155F8D92-3048-5C12-0038BDAE28B8AD5D> , 12/14/08; Editorial, NYT, 2/15/08 <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/15/opinion/15fri1.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print> >

Hillary Clinton Won’t Release Her Earmark Requests, Says She’s Proud Of The Pork She’s Secured For New York. “Hillary Clinton, by contrast, often seems to operate by the maxim that silence is golden. When asked whether she would release a list of her earmarks, her spokesman dodged the question, while declaring that she is ‘proud of the investments in New York that she has secured.’ But for now, at least, not proud enough to let voters know what they are. This exercise in secrecy is part of a Clinton pattern that grows more worrisome all the time.” http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/chi-0316edit2mar16,0,3977339,print.story> >

15 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE?

Clinton Claims Of 35 Years Of Experience Omit 15 Years At Rose Law Firm, Repeatedly Emphasize Mere One Year At Children’s Defense Fund. “She routinely tells voters that she’s “been working to bring positive change to people’s lives for 35 years.” She told a voter in New Hampshire: “I’ve spent so much of my life in the nonprofit sector.” Speaking in South Carolina, Bill Clinton said his wife “could have taken a job with a firm … Instead she went to work with Marian Wright Edelman at the Children’s Defense Fund.” The overall portrait is of a lifelong, selfless do-gooder. The whole story is more complicated — and less flattering. Clinton worked at the Children’s Defense Fund for less than a year, and that’s the only full-time job in the nonprofit sector she’s ever had. She also worked briefly as a law professor. Clinton spent the bulk of her career — 15 of those 35 years — at one of Arkansas’ most prestigious corporate law firms, where she represented big companies and served on corporate boards. Neither she nor her surrogates, however, ever mention that on the campaign trail. Her campaign Web site biography devotes six paragraphs to her pro bono legal work for the poor but sums up the bulk of her experience in one sentence: “She also continued her legal career as a partner in a law firm.” http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/26377.html> , 2/3/08>
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Obama Supporters, feel free to use these talking points!
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Fyddlestyx Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
84. K & R
Excellent post!
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. 8 recs already
this must be a GREAT post!
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. thank you for helping to kick the thread!
:pals:
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
52. It is a very informative post. Perhaps you should take as much time as you need and try to read it.
n/t.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #52
111. well, it's not meant to be informative
and so it isn't. I did read the memo now so I can answer you intelligently.

The memo isn't information, it's propaganda, not that there's anything wrong with that. Of course all campaigns put out propaganda and anyone who goes to a political memo to be informed is a fool.

Notice in this discussion thread that few people if any have commented on the substance of the memo. That's because imo they haven't read it. I don't blame them because as I said the memo is just propaganda, just as worthless to those on the side of the propaganda as it is to the other side.

At the time I made my original comment the post had 8 recs and no replies. Now it has umpteen recs and no real replies and I doubt any of these is based on the substance of the memo.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #111
115. Feel free to enlighten us where you see errors.
Fact: Republicans will use this information against Hillary, should she ever become the candidate, which is unlikely. There is no comment, especially refutation. Hmmm.

My dictionary says that propaganda is spreading of facts, ideas, or information... So your problem is...?

--IMM
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #111
119. Your reply indicates that either you didn't read the OP very well, or you don't know how to read.
Edited on Sat Mar-22-08 10:56 AM by apocalypsehow
n/t.
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DemzRock Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. It always cracks me up when a lying politician calls another politician a liar... n/t
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. me, too, but
you are short one lying politician in this case.
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DemzRock Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Nope. BO has been caught in several lies already.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. HIs "camp" is really, really worried as evidenced by the mud they are
throwing at HRC lately. Look not at the mote in someone else's eye but the beam in your own.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
68. Bullshit! ..evidence like
Obama rolled out on hilary? Put up or shut up.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
67. It cracks me up when somebody posts
like they know what they're talking about.
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not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. Nice work...k&r #13
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 09:24 AM by not_too_L8
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. thanks
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. What do you call his promise to end the war in 2009?
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. This is about Clinton, not Obama. Don't have any defense for her multiple LIES?
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. It's impossible to take a callout from a liar seriously.
So, what about 2009?
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Trying to distract from the main issue.
Can you refute the case made by Obama with any facts?
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. The main issue is ending the war, not which of them is the greater liar.
And you know they are both liars.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #43
60. No, the main issue is nominating the best candidate.
And Hillary's overwhelming lies simply disqualify her from any further consideration.

She just lies about everything. She is dishonest to the core and cannot be trusted.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
64. You see the main issue
Should be who voted for the war. Then later claimed that she was duped.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #64
87. No, she claims Bush violated the trust Congress gave to the presidency.
In any event, I prefer that position to the hypocritical position of opposing the war during a state senatorial campaign, but unfailingly funding it when in the United States Senate.

In politics I can tolerate liars but not hypocrites.
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NickMorgan Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #87
103. whatevs
Hypocrisy? Opposing INVASION is not the same as deciding that, once we have already driven into the ditch, we need to spend the necessary money to get out of the ditch. Or, more literally, once the nation had committed to a hellish and futile death party in the Middle East, there's nothing contradictory about voting to spend whatever funds are necessary to prevent it from becoming an EVEN WORSE hell party on earth.

That's not even inconsistency, much less hypocrisy.

And as for 2009, which you keep bringing up, please provide links to evidence of: (1) a statement by Obama or his top surrogates; and (2) proof that the statement was false. And I promise, I'm open minded. If it turns out you're right, then I'll admit Obama also lied. I mean, I won't admit that he lied as much as Clinton lied, but at least I'll show you the respect to acknowledge you have a valid point.
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NickMorgan Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #43
102. Obama's a Liar? Prove it
I'm aware of many allegations of lies, usually tossed out by Clinton and Clinton supporters to change the subject. But when has he lied? Let's see links to solid evidence of lying -- speculation and rumor are just that, and can't form the basis for accusations of dishonesty on either side. Obama has just busted out the hard evidence. Where's the hard evidence of Obama lying at this level and with this kind of habitual consistency?

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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #39
110. Are we in 2010 yet? Oh, how could he have lied if he hasn't had a chance to fulfill it yet?
Plus, I don't want him to be hamstrung by a promise. He might have said he would pull troops out in 2009 but did he promise to do so? If conditions change drastically and troops are in danger, he isn't going to put them in harm's way to honor a pledge.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
45. What do you call his promise
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 04:22 PM by maddiejoan
not to run for President in 2008?
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
70. Are you actually...
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 06:41 PM by ExPatLeftist
...going to try to claim as lies the perennial denials of candidacy before the final big announcement? Everyone in the last several decades has done that. If that's the only "lie" you caught him in, then he is in fine shape.

Also: Anyone can and should run any time they want. There is no pecking order, there is no queue. IMO even the suggestion of anything less is unAmerican.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. It was his first
of many on the campaign trail.

BTW --Hillary said she would complete HER first Senate term --and guess what?

She did.
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #71
82. Wow, you can point to a promise that she kept
Now how about directly responding to the points in the OP rather than deflecting?
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NickMorgan Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #45
104. interesting
I was not aware he had made such a "promise." Did he really "promise" that? Or did he actually just say that he didn't intend to? Please provide a link to support your allegations of dishonesty.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #104
113. Here
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #113
116. You say he promised not to run. He didn't make any such promise.
How do we characterize your statement?

--IMM
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NickMorgan Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #113
120. nope
Sorry, that video contains no promises. Being uncertain of his intentions and readiness to run for president is hardly a lie if, at a later point, he decides he is ready and does want to run.

To lie means to knowingly make a false statement of fact. If I say at noon that I want steak for dinner, and then at 4 pm I decide, no, I want a sandwich, that is not a lie. It's called changing your mind.

If you knew that Obama made no such promise and yet you still accused him of lying, then I'm afraid the only lie here came from you. You should not accuse people of lying unless you are sure of it. Be more respectful of this community by spreading truth, not misinformation. As Democrats, we should be above misleading people.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. So, Obama has decided to go completely negative??
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 09:32 AM by niceypoo
Why doesn't he run on his record? Why doesnt he ever talk about his policy positions?

All He ever talks about is Hillary. I remember his supporters whining about Hillary's negative campaign, funny how the tables turn sometimes.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. it's not negative to call out hypocrisy
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
78. Is it negative to say a house is on fire? Sheesh...
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
101. It is hypocritical to criticize Senator Obama for 'going negative'
After the 'kitchen sink' strategy employed by the Clinton campaign in the past few weeks. To be honest, I am disappointed that the Obama campaign is 'going there,' but they certainly weren't the first or the nastiest. I do believe Senator Clinton's chickens might be coming home to roost now.
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NickMorgan Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
105. good point
That's a good point. But I think it's inaccurate to say he's gone "completely negative." This week he gave three huge speeches on what he believes and intends to do.

Don't forget, Clinton made a concerted decision to drag this campaign into negative land in the week preceding the debates in Texas in Ohio, and though Obama criticized her policy positions on NAFTA and health care, he largely assumed the moral high ground and continuously treated her with abiding respect and good will (in the Ohio debate, when asked why Clinton might not be qualified, he said Well, she is qualified, but I think I am the stronger candidate).

AFter the flap from Canada re NAFTA and Clinton's extremely negative campaigning in the days preceding March 4, Obama seemed to really take a big hit and many were calling for him fight back and get tough on her, which he began to do by questioning her claims os superior experience. then he questioned why she wouldn't release tax returns. and now, after Clinton has been pushing the Wright story and affirmatively taken advantage of Obama getting smeared by the ruthless and utterly contemptible right wing MadDog, Obama has to hit back. So he's making a full-on attack on her character, which, instead of a Clinton type attack based on some ambiguous thing his surrogate may have said to Canada re NAFTA (which it turns out her OWN people did the same thing) he's choosing an attack that is careful to stick close to the hard evidence and not to exaggerate the claims or base them on misleading details.

The truth is, Obama doesn't do well on the attack because his natural vibe really is one of conciliation, working together, and thinking positive. But you just can't keep that kind of tone when your opponent is throwing everything at you and taking every advantage, no matter how honorable. You have to answer those charges and you have to hit back or else it begins to look like he's just not tough enough to beat the Republicans. So he's got to call her out for being loose with the facts because that is precisely what her whole campaign has been about -- saying what is expedient and making truth come second.

At any rate, this nomination is already over, so before long we'll see Obama in a much better light. But it's important to keep the negativity in context. For Clinton, negativity is a sword. For Obama, it is a shield.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. That's a very good synopsis. I hope that the Obama campaign will strongly use these points.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. they just did in a media conference call
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. K & R
I think a person would have to be blind in one eye and not be able to see out of the other eye to not see what Hillary is doing. And it stinks to high heaven.
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chyjo Donating Member (615 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. breathtaking
In totality The Clinton campaign is truly even SLIMIER than the sum of their swamp parts.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. their campaign management has turned me off completely to hillary
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. I'm glad they point out that Hillary's "opposition" to NAFTA was about timing, not principle
It's not that she didn't like NAFTA, it was that she didn't want it coming before her health care work.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. exactly
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
17. K & R
~PEACE~
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
19. krb. Thanks, slinkerwink! eom
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks for posting this.
K & R :thumbsup:
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
22. Holy crap! K&R
:kick:
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. It's clearly time... K&R
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
25. Give as good as you get, O
:yourock:
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publicatlarge Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. This campaign memo reveals Obama's new strategy
- and he is rolling around in the mud with his 'politics as usual' chicanery. Gone are the days of his painting himself as above the fray.

This is 'kitchen sink' on steroids. He did not play the Wright issue well, and has lost his 'hope' and 'change' message.

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mhoran Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
51. Sure!
He should let the Hillary campaign lie and distort and spin with impunity, and never respond! Then we can call him weak and spineless and unfit for the presidency! Brilliant!
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
90. Didn't you hear his speech the other day?
He definitely has not lost his message 'hope' and 'change' at all.
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
106. These are ISSUES. There is nothing here not related to her record. n/t
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
27. Thanks for posting.
It's good to see all this in one place and I am glad Obama's campaign is
putting this to the press.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks for posting all those Obama lies about Clinton!
Kick!
:kick:
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. thank you for kicking the thread!
:pals: I was worried this was going to disappear off the page, but thank you.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Care to back up your claims with some FACTS?
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
88. Link?
:kick:
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
29. Finally, some truth
K&R
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. thanks!
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
31. Its about damned time ! K&R
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. Clinton's lie, and the "cult of clinton" doesn't care.
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
79. Scary how much like Bush Jr's supporters many of Hillary's supporters are.
And we used to disdain them for supporting Bush Jr despite the shit he pulled. Now we are seeing it in our own political party.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. damn straight
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. Kick.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
38. Sweet!
About time the free pass on her vettedness was taken away. GOBAMA!
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. Kicked
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DontTreadOnMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Oh Snap!
Has Hillary stepped down yet?
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
44. Face it. Her ratings will be along side Bush's ratings
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
46. This is the dude that isn't running in 2008?
right?
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northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
48. Don't forget her completely fabricated tale of being under sniper fire
when she landed in Tuzla, Bosnia in 1996. The Washington Post has exposed that little canard.
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
81. I understand she created nuclear physics, too.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
49. kicked and gave rec. #89. n/t
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
50. Hey, David Axelrod! Can I get a job?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
69. You did good, Stephanie!
:hi:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Please give him my number!
I like that guy's style! :hi:
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
53. Pleased to give Rec #100

As well as a tender :kick:
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
54. Rec #102 for the SOS from the Clintons
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
55. gulp!
thanks!:kick:
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
56. Rebuttal #1 - Election Liability... you posted...
A general election liability

Honesty is a crucial metric in this race because the Democratic nominee is going to be running against John McCain, who is viewed by voters as one of the most trustworthy politicians in America. In the same Gallup poll, McCain scored 67-27 on honesty (with Obama’s honesty rating at 63-29). After eight years of an untrustworthy President, can we really expect that a candidate who is viewed as so much more dishonest than McCain will somehow be able to beat him?


Dear MR. Obama.....

This is the United States of America... not the United States of Honesty Town. Big business trusts a liar and damn sure doesn't trust anyone the people trusts. If they did, they'd be poor like the people and therefore irrelevant. Senator Clinton may not be trusted by Americans to any great deal but American businesses are flocking to her banner because they know she is their friend... and a friend of business earns the respect of companies like Choicepoint and Diebold Election Systems. Sure, millions more people trust and believe in Bin Obama but their votes are counted or discounted under direction of these companies. Do you honestly believe anyone actually trusted Bush in 2004... ha ha ha... *wipe away tear*... so naive... Do you honestly think anyone trusted Bush? Hell no... he bought that election fair and square and honestly I don't think Obama has what it takes to decieve America into believing one person can actually overturn the oligarchy that rules this country. Hilary will settle Americans down... get them to shut up and allow business to slide the giant penis into the ass of America once again... Obama cannot sell out like that... it's not in his nature and therefore is the liability... it's not how the votes are cast MR Obama it's the companies that count and decide the outcome of election that ultimately decide our election. Will Obama lay down with a tube of anal-ease and offer himself up to the will of Wall Street? No, but Hilary will... Will Obama convince American's that NAFTA was really a bad idea and then offer to change the name to something like the HAPPY Trade Agreement which will make Americans feel better about losing their jobs and their health care? I don't think so... but Hilary will. Will Obama have intercourse with a mule in Tijuana for $40 a trick? I don't think so... but do we really know that Hilary will not? Honestly, MR. Obama, you Sir are not even in the frikkin Dictionary on any spell checker in the world... and Hilary is the liability? That weed you smoked must have been pretty damn good cause you're still acting high... You're the liability and it's not because you're Black... even though you are... it's because truthfully, your not white and that means you're different. Different is okay but different also flies planes into buildings and sets fire to shoes or brings toothpaste on an airplane. Don't speak to me about liability!!!! No go away before I taunt you a second time!!!
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. At first...
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 06:01 PM by Greyskye
At first I was all :wtf: and what a :dunce:. And I kept reading and my head was going :crazy: and :silly:. Then I'm :freak: and :shrug: thinking, what is this, a :puffpiece:, :wtf:. I strap on my :tinfoilhat: because of the coming :nuke:, then I get to the part where I'm thinking :yoiks:, "no you d'int!" :spank: :wow: . So I take a big healthy :beer: , scratch my head :dilemma: , grab some :popcorn: and take a seat over :hide: .
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Yeah... I do that sometimes... you should try sleeping with me...
honestly... I'm exceptional though a little on the smelly side... I think it's a gland thing.
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alteredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
91. You lost me at the part about the $40 trick with a mule in Tijuana........
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. See, it was a question, really...
I was wondering if you could really trust Obama to go to any length to worship the God of Money... even resorting to blowing a donkey or balling a goat in some sleazy Mexican whorehouse? Hilary, now that woman loves money... I'd bet she'd do it for cash if she got horny enough and needed $40 to make a phone call or catch a cab but honestly... it boils down to liability and....



Hold on a second... how is it my fault that you can't comprehend my point? You Obamaniacs say that if I "understood" Obama I'd fall all over myself but because he fails to make me read anything he says or watch anything he's written... now it's my fault that I don't get him? Just like you're saying it's my fault that you don't get Hilary? Are you crazy or do you just hate women?
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #56
117. Awesome!
:rofl:

--IMM
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. More "new politics" from the charlatan Barack Obama -- Nt
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Heathen57 Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
58. Kicked to keep this up on the main page
Clinton's flaws and lies exposed at long last.

:kick:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
59. woooooooowwwwwwweeeee! Get down!
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
63. K and R
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
65. Like they're just going to
roll over and pretend it hasn't been happening since Iowa or before.
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
66. K&R
Obama has released his taxes and financials. I wanna see Hillary's and until then all pissed-off Clinton supporters can take a hike
because until she comes clean she's just another disingenuous lying pol to me.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
72. Hillarat needs to quit now. She has no chance of winning. The only reason she is ...
still in the race is because the MSM needs bullshit to feed the talking heads. Even the talking heads know it is over. All she can do now is hurt and divide the party which IMO she doesn't give a flying fuck about. It's time for her to stop. Everyone who is supporting her on this board is damaging the democratic party and should be joining with the Obama supporters so we can win the GE. No amount of kool aid is going to change the chances of her winning. Obama has the popular vote and has the majority of the delegate votes. We don't need to wait for the fat cat super delegates. Get a damned grip and join in with us so we can stop the repukes from destroying what is left of this country and its constitution.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
73. Poll Alert !!!!!
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 07:54 PM by BecauseBushSaysSo
I am sitting here and watching KO and sometimes I switch to the dark side to see what Bill O is babbling about and he has a vote.
Do you think the Rev Wright story is important. I don't know about you but I think we all should be DittoHeads and vote at billoreilly.com Just hold your nose.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
75. K&R, and bookmarked.
Hillary's lies need to be exposed for all to see.
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trickyguy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
76. These are not Obama lies because I figured it our for myself .
It doesn't take a degree in political science to start to understand that Hillary Clinton has been
lying about a lot of stuff. And throwing insults at Obama in front of cameras. Maybe she doesn't realize
that we citizens at DU have some common sense.

And we can just look at what's posted - and compare what she said two, three, seven years ago and know she's
either doing a 180 or she's lying about what she believes in.

I have never liked nor trusted Hillary from the moment she started pushing her weight around in D.C.
after her husband became president.

Frankly, I think she's a snake. Sort of nice to look at but if you get on her wrong side....she's deadly.:evilfrown:
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. yeah, she's going to be the Lieberman of this race
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Duder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
80. Yep, that's Hillary
Three days after telling the Washington Post that Peter Paul made no contribution to her August 12, 2000 gala and that her campaign would not accept contributions from him, Hillary sent this letter:


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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
83. 0 calls Clinton a liar: 131 recs and counting. Hill says the obvious about O's inexperience: EVIL!!!
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. thank you for kicking the thread! I really appreciate it!
:pals:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
86. it`s always interesting when statements are either
proven or disproved by the facts. in this case hillary has fudged the truth to fit her purpose.
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Veracious Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
89. Clinton Supporters Its over and You know it.
Obama 08........Hillary's win at all cost strategy is hurting America.

Barack Obama will be the next President Of The United States.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
92. Talk about nuke 'em high. Great work. Devastating. K*R
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alteredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
93. one more kick
:kick:
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
94. She's a fraud.
Her resume is more padded than any other Democrat.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. I wouldn't hire her due to her resume padding
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Maryland Liberal Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
95. The details - in this case - are UNIMPORTANT
The important part is- HILLARY LIES - because - it keeps her out of Jail.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
98. So many lies you can't keep track... I thought I was looking at Bush's lies
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
99. So this is the positive campaign he speaks of.
a politics of hope. change, change we can believe in.
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #99
107. He has never taken issues off the table.
And these are not distortions of her record, so I 'm not really sure what you're complaining about. He has NEVER stated that he would not confront Hillary on the issues. The "same old politics" to which he refers are personal attacks, distortions of an opponent's record, and double speak. I have never heard him say that a discussion of the issues is off the table, and it would be foolish for anyone to presume that a primary would be possible without clearly addressing the issues.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
100. Hello, Kettle? This is the Pot...
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #100
108. Then it should be easy for you to compile a similar list. Let's see it. n/t
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
109. Article on Union Leader: Hillary's word: It's worth nothing
Hillary's word: It's worth nothing

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=0853268a-d982-4190-81e8-740ae942f510&headline=Hillary's+word%3A+It's+worth+nothing

Tuesday, Jan. 29, 2008

COURTING VOTERS in Iowa and New Hampshire, last August Sen. Hillary Clinton signed a pledge not to "campaign or participate" in the Michigan or Florida Democratic primaries. She participated in both primaries and is campaigning in Florida. Which proves, again, that Hillary Clinton is a liar.

Clinton kept her name on the Michigan ballot when others removed theirs, she campaigned this past weekend in Florida, and she is pushing to seat Michigan and Florida delegates at the Democratic National Convention. The party stripped those states of delegates as punishment for moving up their primary dates.

"I will try to persuade my delegates to seat the delegates from Michigan and Florida," Clinton said last week, after the New Hampshire primaries and Iowa caucuses were safely over.

Clinton coldly and knowingly lied to New Hampshire and Iowa. Her promise was not a vague statement. It was a signed pledge with a clear and unequivocal meaning.

She signed it thinking that keeping the other candidates out of Michigan and Florida was to her advantage, but knowing she would break it if that proved beneficial later on. It did, and she did.

New Hampshire voters, you were played for suckers.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #109
114. thank you!
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cseper Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
112. But, the fact is....
2 years on the national scene as not being enough experience for Commander in Chief! I started this primary campaign happy with all the candidates. I have seen the leading candidate demonized by Obama. He didn't even treat her as well as the Republicans do. Now when confronted about his judgment of going twenty years to a racist minister he eloquently changes the subject to the the need for better race relations. At the same time he outs his poor grandma as a bigot all for political purposes. Face it he is a well spoken, politician like the rest of them.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #112
118. Who do you think is the leading candidate?
--IMM
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
121. BAM! Time for some truth.
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