Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

NBC Poll: Nader may play a major role in deciding election

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:30 AM
Original message
NBC Poll: Nader may play a major role in deciding election
A new NBC News poll out today suggests that by a 50-33 percent margin the country is moving in the "wrong direction", George W. Bush is still narrowly leading John Kerry 46-42 percent with 5% for Ralph Nader, who according to Tim Russert on The Today Show this morning, is emerging as "the peace candidate" with fully 9% of the independent swing vote behind him.

By a 47-42 percent margin a plurality now believes that the removal of Saddam was not worth the costs either financially or in casualties.

http://www.msnbc.com/id/4907503 /

poll of 1,012 registered votes +/- 3%.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. So lemme get this straight
If only 33% of the country thinks we're heading in the right direction and 46% will vote for Bush, that means 13% thinks Bush is fucking up big time... but they don't care. Can anyone explain that to me?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. They think the country is not moving in the right direction
but that Kerry is not an improvement. According to Russert this morning Kerry has a big problem with voters accoring to this poll because they preceive him as someone who like to have both sides of an issue and his approval/disapproval rating is 38-38. So alot of people don't care for Bush but don't think Kerry is likely to improve the situation--this is what Kerry has to combat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harrison Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well, there are always those looking for the moral vs the
immoral. The choice is usually the immoral vs the less immoral. Now, if Nader and his followers are so fucking egotistical that they want to guarantee the loss of more Iraqi and American lives, then I guess there is no stopping them.

And while I know that Kerry is not going to up and leave Iraq at a moment's notice, at least he is trying to fashion of multination policy on this damn mess.

I can only hope that as the time draws nigh, Nader pulls out of the race.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tina H Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. For me, the question is *not* whether . . .
Kerry can be considered the lesser of two "evils." One of the major party candidates (usually the Democrat) can *always* be considered the lesser of two "evils."

The question for me is always the size of the gap between the two "evils." If the gap is big, then I vote for the lesser. If the gap is small, I either abstain or vote for a 3d party candidate that really does reflect my views.

Personally, I hope Nader and his bunch: (1) help convince Kerry to widen the gap between himself and the pResident; and then (2) drops out and endorses Kerry after he has helped guide Kerry closer to the place that Nader constituents want Kerry to be.

This strategy may work very well because Kerry has shown himself to be pliable and capable of changing with changing circumstances. However, unless and until Nader posts good numbers in polls, Kerry will probably move more center-ward than Nader-ward.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. Proof again that we are a nation of idiots
Edited on Thu May-06-04 08:51 AM by zulchzulu
Anyone who sees no difference between Bush and Kerry hopefully is too fucking stoned on Election Day to remember to vote.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. typical, perfect logic
it seems to be a math thing, as well as a democratic problem for those responsibility challenged types who think there is a difference between voting third party and not voting at all. Both of these results are the responsibility of a candidate who cannot entice voters to vote for them, no matter how many insist that they are obligated to do as they are told. If Kerry doesnt show some very serious opposition to Bushcorp policy and some respect for the anti-war concerns of MILLIONS, he will go down in flames against an unelected imperial tyrant. Its laughable to see over and over the claims that appealing to the MOR swing vote is the path to victory. Simply a lie that is being repeated towards truthdom. Once again it is the Democrats to lose, and if they continue making the traditional mistake people will stay home, either stoned or pissed off, or both.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Single issue stupidity and myopically keeping the eye off the ball
Why in hell would anyone but a half-witted knucklehead vote for Nader this time around. This purile pot party parlor talk that the "anti-war people" would rather vote for Nader than Kerry is solely based on the notion that no other issues matter or are any different between Kerry and Bush as well as are based on utter ignorance on not wanting to know Kerry's position on using the UN initially and to use war as a last resort.

It's either laziness, not wanting to get educated on the issues or just plain flat-out stupidity that would make someone even consider Nader as a viable solution this election year.

When I table for Kerry weekly, I run into an occasional Nader dimwit. I can tell you hands down that they are usually burnt-out putzes who hopefully don't own a calendar and have no idea when to vote in November.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. way to influence people and win enemies
Edited on Thu May-06-04 12:50 PM by tinanator
Are you sure you are working FOR Kerry? These highhanded bigotries and disrespect for people who have JUSTIFIABLY lost faith in the Democratic Parties: handholding of the Bush selection, Bush the 41st whitewashings of scandals so profoundly evil that his family should be disallowed from holding office, the march to Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows where to next? These people are not all less than yourself, most of them seem to be quite intelligent and sick of the corporatism that pulls the strings of both parties and demands these unjustifiable acts of aggression leading us back into yet another Vietnam body count nightmare. There really is only one point to the two party arrangement, and that is divide and conquer. As the two parties merge their policies it is only natural that free thinkers will seek democracy rather than homogenized plutocracy. The only real divide in this country is between the citizenry and the rulers. The citizenry has absolutely no power or say in the decision making process, that was made perfectly clear the last selection. The entire Nader hating campaign is as anti-democratic and Rovian as anything those hillbillies ever devised. You might reevaluate your feelings toward the democratic rights of your fellow citizens, and the response you engender when you bash with such fervor people who are primarily concerned with environmental and democratic issues that the Democratic Party largely abandoned in the 90's and during the "recount" of 2000. It is often said that Gore ran away from Clinton in 2000. Well I seem to remember Clinton putting Gore's environmental issues in a drawer myself, not once giving the VP an opportunity to live up to the eco-expectations that his position on the campaign promised voters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. There is NO POINT talking to a freakin' Naderhead at this point
Edited on Thu May-06-04 08:01 PM by zulchzulu
Either you get it or you don't.

No matter how much weed you Naderheads smoke, we can't change the clock back to March 2003.

Oh wait, did that blow your mind. Too bad.

If people want to drink St. Ralph's Kool-Aid, all I offer is pity.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zoeyfong Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. You're right, I *don't* get your Us vs. Them worldview.
Kerry is going to have to *earn* every vote he gets, and if you don't get that, get ready to lose. Contrary to what you think, nader voters are not ignorant stoners; nader is raising issues that the other parties refuse to, and the democratic party ought to consider trying to win left of center votes, before it goes after right of center votes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Like I said...
Edited on Thu May-06-04 09:57 PM by zulchzulu
If you think it's time for mealy-mouthed, whining parlor games when it comes to this election and can't seem to fathom the importance of getting every vote to go against Bush, then it is truly an absolute, utter complete waste of time.

If you really think it's time to guffaw and chortle about stuff you can't even begin to understand about the differences between Bush and Kerry (who are the only candidates you should be worrying about this election), then I hope you don't vote at all.

The only issue Nader is raising is how much of a pathetic hypocrite he is.

Nader's goal is to steal votes from Kerry which in turn gives more votes to Bush.

Nader is nothing more than an egomaniacal charlatan. My spit holds greater value on the sidewalk than in his pathetic face.

Even the Greens bid adieu to this clown of a man. He has poisoned what was a decent legacy up until 2000.

As for Kerry taking advice from a radical blowhard like Nader, that would be political suicide.

Nader's "ideas" are not "just left of center". They are possibly a shade higher in value to the indecipherable scribbles of a madman's urine-stained journal in a gutter.

America needs Nader like they need a nuke up their ass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Politicians give...
Edited on Thu May-06-04 02:19 PM by augie38
the American electorate too much credit in being smart. We are the dumbest... when we choose 2nd amendment rights and abortion issues over health care for all. Especially those struggling working stiffs who continue to support republicans, thinking that republicans, some how, will address their bread and butter issues. We are the dumbest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. Two things
First, Nader should withdraw for the good of the country. Regardless of who defeats him, the focus must be on defeating Bush. Whatever Kerry's shortcomings on this issue, it is hard to imagine him sending Americans into combat and using brazen lies as a justification for the sacrifice.

Second, Kerry must soften his "stay the course" rhetoric and suggest that he is at least open to withdrawing from Iraq. By the time he takes office in January, assuming he does, that may be the only viable course that can be taken.

Instead of trying to convince us how much like Bush he will be, Kerry should be demonstrating that he is worlds apart from Bush. Polls that show Americans are misinformed about the facts of the invasion also show that those who are informed prefer Kerry over Bush. It would seem to be a no-brainier that informing voters of the facts and drawing attention to the junta's lies in justifying this war is Kerry's best strategy.

As for any goals in the war, forget it. Democracy was never on the table in Iraq. Even a neoliberal dictatorship, which is what the junta really means by "democracy" and "sovereignty", is down the tubes now. Any credible Iraqi government will ask American troops to leave; that request should be honored. That may not necessarily be democracy, but it is at least sovereignty.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. only if it's close will he matter
fuck him. May Kerry run away with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. Well, I have a solution for this problem
Co-opt some of Nader's positions! Put in a universal health care plank, or living wage plank in the Democratic Party platform. Become more dovish on the Iraq war, rather than promising more troops and unwavering support for it. If Kerry would do these things, then I guarantee that the support for Nader would wither, and Kerry would win in the fall. People are wanting something to vote FOR, not just repeatedly being presented with having to vote against.

It is the fine art of compromise that is needed here. Sad to say, it seems to be a lost art to the Dems. One that will probably cost them the election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bmbmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. Nader is an honorable man, but he is Bush's last hope.
I expect he will withdraw at a later time. He will not doom us to another four years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. Nader is not an honorable man.
Anyone who spews lies like he does is not an honorable man. He is an egomaniacal idiot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nader has never approched 5% in any election
And he wont do it this year either. Any poll that shows Nader getting more than 3% is garbage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. They're really playing this crap up.
It's a GOP-created distraction from the FIXED ELECTIONS coming up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
19. I think some people just don't understand
what danger we are all in from the Bush regime. Maybe I'm just overly paranoid but my feeling is that if Bush wins, we may never get a chance to vote for another Kerry, let alone a Nader. How many more wars under a Bush regime? How many more people have to die?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
20. I hate being held hostage by the extreme left.
I really, really do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
22. The trouble is you can't convince a lot of needed voters w/o consessions
Kerry is going to lose a lot of his Democratic support if he picks a conservative VP or if he doesn't include universal health care and the end of NAFTA in the platform.

A couple of friends who had re-registered as Democrats for Dennis, just re-registered as Greens. A great many of the other Democrats we registered last fall are uncertain of how they will vote in November. Kerry can swing right and lose or stand up as the liberal we hope he is and win the election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Apr 20th 2014, 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC