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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 11:23 PM
Original message
Poll question: Isnt it Time For All of Us to Denounce these Appalling, anti-American Religious Remarks?
Edited on Wed Mar-19-08 11:34 PM by Leopolds Ghost
Jesus, 33

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

Jesus, 33

"...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle
than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)

The parallel versions appear in Matthew 19:23-24, Mark 10:24-25 and Luke 18:24-25.

The saying was a response to a young rich man who had asked Jesus what
he needed to do in order to inherit eternal life. Jesus replied that he should
keep the commandments, sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor,
and then follow Jesus. The young man was unwilling to do this. Jesus then spoke
this response, leaving his disciples astonished.

The Babylonian Talmud applies the aphorism "eye of a needle" to unthinkable thoughts.
To explain that dreams reveal the thoughts of a man's heart, the product of reason
rather than the absence of it, the rabbis say:

They (dreams) do not show a man a palm tree of gold,
nor an elephant going through the eye of a needle.



We couldn't destroy New Orleans' Public Housing, but God did (2005)

Louisiana Congressman Richard Baker (R-LA) said, after the hurricane,

"We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans.
We couldn't do it, but God did."


(a statement that was picked up and repeated by the press secretary
to TX Gov Rick Perry in Houston)



Desiderius Erasmus, d. 1536 -- Notorious Pacifist -- an Un-American Theology

In numerous works, such as Oration on Peace and Discord, Handbook of the Militant Christian, The Praise of Folly, Charon, On Mending the Peace of the Church he continually emphasizes the madness and futility of war, especially for those who claim to be Christians. In the Adages he quotes Pindar to the effect that war is sweet to those who have not tried it. A few quotations suffice to demonstrate the extent of his pacifist thought:

To me it does not even seem recommendable that we should now be preparing
war against the Turks. The Christian religion is in a bad way, if its
safety depends on this sort of defense. Nor is it consistent to make good
Christians under these auspices. What is taken by the sword is lost by the
sword. Are you anxious to win the Turks for Christ? Let us not display our
wealth, our armies, our strength. Let them see in us not only the name,
but the unmistakable marks of a Christian: a blameless life, the wish to
do good even to our enemies, a tolerance which will withstand all
injuries, contempt of money, heedlessness of glory, life held lightly;
let them hear that heavenly doctrine which is in accordance with this
kind of life. These are the best arms with which to defeat the Turks."

http://rossbender.org/turks.html


Martin Luther King, 1967

King called the United States "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today."

From Vietnam to South Africa to Latin America, King said, the U.S. was "on the wrong side of a world revolution." King questioned "our alliance with the landed gentry of Latin America," and asked why the U.S. was suppressing revolutions "of the shirtless and barefoot people" in the Third World, instead of supporting them.

In foreign policy, King also offered an economic critique, complaining about "capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the social betterment of the countries."

You haven't heard the "Beyond Vietnam" speech on network news retrospectives, but national media heard it loud and clear back in 1967 and loudly denounced it. Time magazine called it "demagogic slander that sounded like a script for Radio Hanoi." The Washington Post patronized that "King has diminished his usefulness to his cause, his country, his people."

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2269


Michael Sattler, Trial, 1527 -- Do Not Resist Saracen Invasion

State Christianity that endorses use of force is "Turkish in Spirit"

(Early Mennonite Prophet and co-founder of Anabaptism -- Amish, etc.)

Eighthly, if the Turks should come, we ought not to resist them. For it is written (Mt. 5:21) Thou shalt not kill. We must not defend ourselves against the Turks and others of our persecutors, but are to beseech God with earnest prayer to repel and resist them. But that I said that, if warring were right, I would rather take the field against so-called Christians who persecute, capture, and kill pious Christians than against the Turks was for the following reason. The Turk is a true Turk, knows nothing of the Christian faith, and is a Turk after the flesh. But you who would be Christians and who make your boast of Christ persecute the pious witnesses of Christ and are Turks after the spirit!
(Klassen, Walter. 270)

http://rossbender.org/turks.html


John Hagee -- Exterminate All the Brutes (2008)

McCain thoroughly rejected a radio talking head in public for his
statements about Barack Obama's middle name. But shortly afterwards,
he defended Hagee, appeared with him arm in arm and loudly asserted
that they shared the same values:

(But He didn't loudly proclaim it on carefully produced Cable TV, in a Black Accent!!!!!)

New Republic says:

Glenn Greenwald is so right it hurts.
Some key informatics from John Hagee, the wackjob evangelical preacher
who is backing John McCain's campaign from Texas:

Towelheads are coming: "Islam in general -- those who live by the Koran
have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews."


New Orleans is Sodom: "I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin
that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of
God for that."


Potter is satanic: "As millions of people anticipate the release
of the latest Harry Potter book and film, we're reminded once again of Satan's
ongoing attempt to deceive and destroy. The whole purpose of the Potter books
is to desensitize readers and introduce them to the occult."


("But let's face it, white Americans aren't afraid of such statements!
Are you going to stand up and defend Islam when your candidate is being attacked
for being un-American? Give me a break, we all know Hagee's statements are a non issue!"
-- "Liberal" commentator on MSNBC)


This is no worse than some of the inflammatory comments Farakkhan has dropped over the years--but given a minor toasting (as oposed to the full-panini-press Barack Obama got on Tuesday evening) on Hagee's comments, McCain said, "all I can tell you is that I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support."

Not a rejection or denouncement in sight.

The sad thing is McCain (denounced) "agents of intolerance"... but now
(McCain and the MSM) threatens a backslide into levels of intolerance
that just curdle the mind. --Dayo Olopade

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/0...


Martin Luther, Anti-Semitic side of (1543)

On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jden und ihren Lgen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lgen) is a 65,000-word treatise written by German Reformation leader Martin Luther in 1543.

In the treatise, Luther writes that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."(1) They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine,"(2) and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..."(3) He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,(4) afforded no legal protection,<5> and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.(6) He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "(w)e are at fault in not slaying them."(7)

The prevailing scholarly view(8) since the Second World War is that the treatise exercised a major and persistent influence on Germany's attitude toward its Jewish citizens in the centuries between the Reformation and the Holocaust. Four hundred years after it was written, the National Socialists displayed On the Jews and Their Lies during Nuremberg rallies, and the city of Nuremberg presented a first edition to Julius Streicher, editor of the Nazi newspaper Der Strmer, the newspaper describing it as the most radically antisemitic tract ever published.(9)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies


Hans Umlauft, Jews and Turks are more moral than Christians -- 1539

Therefore I believe that many children of Abraham are to be found among the heathen, carved in stone (Mt. 3 :9, Rom. 9:8). Similarly, this unpartisan God took pleasure in Adam, Abel, Enoch, Noah, Job, Abraham, who was a heathen before his circumcision, Naaman, Cyrus the Persian king, the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar, Nathanael, the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 2 :9), and Cornelius before and without the external circumcision in baptism We must listen to Christ when he says that many, who are today called Turks and heathen, will come from east and west and eat with Abraham in the kingdom of God. By contrast, the children of the kingdom, the so-called Christians and the Jews who presume to sit in the front and who believe that God belongs to them, will be thrust out. (Klassen, Walter. 295)

http://rossbender.org/turks.html

Sure, I am theologically Anabaptist,

but I grew up in a Lutheran church and still go there.

When will someone on DU ask me to denounce my Lutheran church?

Hell, Martin Luther King's namesake is Martin Luther...

this will not go away!

Which one is YOUR Favorite UN-AMERICAN Religious Statement?

Is it Un-American in a GOOD way or a BAD way?

And,

What must All of us as Democrats do to Dissassociate Ourselves From It?

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. (crickets) from the "Obama is infected by Wright's black religion!" crowd
Edited on Wed Mar-19-08 11:31 PM by Leopolds Ghost
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. damn fine!
Thank you
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. You're welcome! I'm getting tired of "Obama must denounce any religious belief that smacks anti-USA"
Their argument is fascistic.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well played, Sir.
:thumbsup: :kick:
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Jesus Plunging in Latest Poll as Disheartened White Males Reconsider their Opposition to Crucifixion
McCain visits Lutheran church and denounces Middle Eastern invaders.

News at 11.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. Didn't know that about Luther, thanks.
And they're complaining about Wright?!!
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. bump
Awaiting Hillary Dems to do the right thing and issue denunciations...

Gosh, could it be something about most of these statements being
uttered by white people, and thus excusable / forgivable?
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Where is the outrage?!
I remember Jesus said something about hypocrites, also.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Still no outrage... it seems skin color enables white commentators to cherrypick.
(I'm white, btw.)
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. How about Anti-Orthodox Zionist Jews who met with Arafat and denounced Israel
Edited on Thu Mar-20-08 04:58 PM by Leopolds Ghost
for "pretending to be an officially Jewish state?"

Ultra-orthodox Jews believe that in the absence of messianic
Temple Judaism, a religiously-based Jewish state has no right
to command the loyalties of Judaism worldwide. They are very
sincere in their beliefs, which are basically the Jewish
equivalent of Anabaptists such as the Amish or Old Order
Mennonites. (Interestingly, as an Anabaptist, I am essentially
Zionist but that does not mean I believe the modern state of Israel
should be a theocratic state. So in a way, I agree with them.)
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. Awaiting outrage n/t
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Can you feel the double standard, DU?
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kick
but you might want to distill it down a bit.

There's definitely a tl;dr effect going on. ^_^
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