for those of you who insist that there is no sexism in our society, look at obama's speech and, each

[niyad]

time the word "black" is used, substitute "women"

you might, then, have some small idea of the destructive force that was, is, and continues to be, sexism and patriarchy in this country.

[fascisthunter]

1. My God, you are stretching....

it really is shameful.

[niyad]

3. right on cue. heaven forfend we should look at sexism and the patriarchy as the

problems they are. race is all that matters.

I feel sorry for your obtuseness.

[EFerrari]

10. And I feel sorry that you have to drag sexism into this forum

so hamfistedly because it only erodes the meaning of the word.

[niyad]

16. this is a forum on politics, and patriarchy and sexism are all about politics. so sorry you can't

see the connection.

[EFerrari]

23. You haven't provided a connection. Feel sorry for yourself. n/t

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[niyad]

22. oh, how EVER will I bear up under your displeasure?

I am making a mockery? honstly, denial is NOT a river in egypt.

[fascisthunter]

29. now that was obtuse... and the word is spelled "Egypt"

it's a country and you are the one in denial. I have alerted on you for using sexism in a very low manner to win political points for your candidate. It's disgusting and debases everything actual feminists have been working on for years. You are a real piece of work.

[niyad]

27. remd I-95

[fascisthunter]

32. yuh sure... whatever the hell that means (nt)

[niyad]

37. you are so smart, and I am so stupid, surely you can figure it out?

[roguevalley]

60. both suck, dear, but this one is about virulent racism, which some of `

us are old enough to remember. start another thread about sexism or get Hillary to give a ground busting speech about it so we can laud her and what she says. Otherwise, you just look sad.

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. Why and please explain why?

[Texas Hill Country]

2. actually, it is true.

[gabeana]

4. Racism even more

during womens suffrage white women made black women march in the back of the parade lines so as not upset southern white women,

Is there more women governors or governors of color
that goes for senators as well


there is sexism of course but don't deny or deflate the harm of racism because it effects women of color twice

[Fresh_Start]

8. the question is no is there more....

the question is of proportionality.

Woman are 51% of the population.
Blacks are 11% of the population.
There should be more woman.
AND there should be more BLACKS in every level of government.

[gabeana]

28. you made my point --thanks

I don't even think you realized it, that is how low racism is under the radar

The reason we don't have more black politicians is becasue white people won't vote for them

Why should it matter if blacks are only 11% of the population thats overall, but how about in states where the pop is much larger than that. Besides there are a lot more multi-racial people in this country than before, again how many women of color, men of color are in elected office compared to white women?

Please don't take this as me saying you are racist because of course your not.
P

[Fresh_Start]

44. what percentage of black candidates are voted into office?

versus what percentage of white candidates are voted into office?
versus what percentage of female candidates are voted into office?
versus what percentage of hispanic candidates are voted into office?

I don't know the answers, maybe you do?

I can't say its because 'white people won't vote for them'.
I can't say its too few females because 'males won't vote for them' either.
Again I have no numbers to support or refute either one of them.

I do know statistically around the globe, females are always underrepresented in higher levels of government.
Whereas its pretty reliable that hispanic males are in highest levels of government in hispanic countries.
Ditto Asia, Africa, South America - its common (though not always true) for the major ethnic group to hold a high percent of government seats.

I challenge you to find 5 countries in the world, where women hold seats commensurate to their population proportions.

[Texas Hill Country]

31. The disproportionality is HUGE. AA's have SUBTANTIALLY better representation than women in Congress

there is approximately 1 AA Congressman/Senator for every 845,000 AA's in this country.


there is approximately 1 Woman for every 2,500,000 women in this country.


who is more under-represented?

[Texas Hill Country]

26. wow... you left out a few words, hard to translate... but i would like to point out that...

AA's got the vote before women did.... by about 30 years.

interesting, huh?

[gabeana]

40. Yes your link to support

plus why was there a need for the civil rights act of 1965?

[gorenobel]

71. Both problems need to be tackled

Racism still exists, as well as sexism. Not as badly as it was decades ago, but still destructive forces, as we have seen during these primaries.

[goldcanyonaz]

5. Yep, but we haven't come that far yet. Sexism is pretty popular around here, racism, not so much.

[LisaM]

6. I'm going to do that!

Thanks for the idea.

[EFerrari]

7. Who here has claimed there is no sexism in our society?

:crazy:

[gabeana]

14. If you don't get in line with Hillary here

its not because you just happen to think think she is not the right person for Job, no it's because you are a sexist, this has been played on Du before the 1st vote was cast in Jan. After all it was Obama who said vote for me because I'm black, wait no I think it was Hillary who implied vote for me because I'm a woman. With I'm your girl, thats right I'm sorry I got it wrong

[niyad]

18. this post isn't about hillary. it's about a society that is STILL sexist and patriarchal

a fact many would like to deny, saying that race only is the problem.

[EFerrari]

19. These wild and ungrounded claims of sexism hurt our movement.

I guess that makes me a sexist with a degree in Women's Studies. lol

[VolcanoJen]

9. Hillary should give a moving, earth-shattering speech about it, then.

She's uniquely qualified to speak up against this issue which seems to be holding so many people down, and sinking her candidacy.

What is she waiting for?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

12. It would violate her "no big speeches" policy.

[Yes We Did]

15. Naw... she just can't do it.

I doubt she has written any of her speeches herself. She didn't even write her own book. She had a ghost writer do it and then took credit... just like she does with everything else.

[OzarkDem]

34. I wish she would

but it appears she's trying to focus on issues like the economy, health care, education, the War, etc.

[VolcanoJen]

35. Is she not good at multi-tasking?

Is sexism not a Hillary issue the way it's clearly a DU issue?

[OzarkDem]

39. My guess, she wants to focus dialogue on the "crisis" issues

e.g. economy, war, etc. They are the "front burner" issues and I can understand why she'd focusing on them - they have a more direct impact on people's lives right now.

[VolcanoJen]

45. Well, it's a good idea.

She could use the practice. But it's a shame she can't work on issues and give speeches. The country needs leadership as much as it needs a wonk.

[OzarkDem]

53. We really have to get this election back to the issues, though

its the only way Dems will beat McCain.

[riverdeep]

65. Until she falls behind.

Then she has no problems bringing up her femaleness.

Look, you're absolutely right there's powerful forces working against women (although this is a strawman argument, since this wasn't ever really in question here). These forces have been there so long, we no longer even notice them-they're just built into the DNA of our society. But, it sounds like this is an automatic endorsement for Hillary because sexism exists. It doesn't work that way. Voting for someone because of their identity is a mistake, if other things disqualify them. Look at Marion Berry. The voters put him back in office after being caught on tape smoking crack-where he promptly screwed up again. They voted him in because he was Black, and refused to consider his problems as anything other than a creation of the media. Sound familiar?

[lob1]

11. I fully support women's rights

but I can't think of a single woman who was lynched because she was a woman.

[OzarkDem]

30. Domestic violence

is often a crime of sexism, of male partners seeking to show their dominance over someone physically weaker and whom they feel is inferior to them. You never see these same creeps beating up on other men...


http://www.ncadv.org/files/domesticviolencefacts.pdf

[Manifestor_of_Light]

70. There is sexism in domestic violence programs, too.

There are MEN who are beaten up by their women partners.

There are GAY MEN who are beaten up by their men partners.

Men who are physically abused are considered to be "wimpy" and "not manly enough to defend themselves".

There are NO shelters for battered men that I know of.

That is sexism in the other direction. There are plenty of women and gay men who have anger management problems and beat their partners. Yet society does nothing about that problem.

[niyad]

36. there are a lot of ways to kill people--learn the history. or, how about watching

"iron jawed angels" on the story of the fight for women's suffrage in this country.

and, as a companion, "shoulder to shoulder" (pbs) about the same fight in great britain.

[gabeana]

46. Since you watched that movie

how were the black women portrayed

[dcindian]

13. why stop there?

You can substitute immigrant, native, gay, Muslim or any number of those who America steps on daily. That was the whole beauty of the speech it was meant to stir a reaction and make us think in a multitude of ways to address such problems.

The whole stinking situation brought on by the white hysteria the MSM uses to cower us was only the surface of the speech, but when you think on a higher level it is easy to see Obama took us to a place where we need to be as democrats. He did not forget you or me or any of us he just asked us to think a bit. To study the problem from all angles, it was a life lesson for us we should take that lesson instead of bashing our heads against that same stupid rock.


That is why thinking on many different levels about a problem and then addressing them as Obama did is a lesson all of us Democrats need to learn.

[PerfectSage]

20. Well is you substitute the word "black" with "lack of charcter integrity"...

...then you'd have a speech about Hillary and Bill Clinton, the Bush's and the GOP.

[Vinca]

21. There's one thing in this society that reinforces sexism: whining.

Hillary is not at a disadvantage being a woman and running for president against a black guy with a name like Barack Hussein Obama. Sexism isn't people not wanting to vote for you and you happen to be a woman. I agree there is sexism in this country and if Senator Clinton wants to address it, I'd love to hear it. In the meantime, I hope you won't demean Obama's stance on racism.

[niyad]

24. goddess forfend we should bring up the subject

[niyad]

38. once again, for the completely clueless, this ISN"T ABOUT HILLARY. this is about

OUR society. so sorry that some of you have such a problem with this tiny little fact.

[Vinca]

55. Then aren't you in the wrong forum? GD would be more appropriate. nt

[Lilith Velkor]

61. If someone posted the same thing about racism, people here would freak the fuck out

And rightly so.

If Senator Clinton said anything about sexism, it'd be dismissed as "whining."

Look what happened when she objected to David Shuster's implication that her daughter is a whore.

Please open your eyes.

[JuniperLea]

67. Could you be any more sexist? eom

[OzarkDem]

25. Thanks for pointing it out

and yes, folks, sexism is harmful. It forces people to live in poverty, go without needed health care, lose opportunities to pursue their dreams and, in some cases, to become victims of violence.

[Mooney]

33. Who's saying there is no sexism in our society?

Even the most deluded ditto-head watching the 700 Club would never say that.

[niyad]

41. gee, read some of the replies here. this is an ongoing argument on DU.

[ecstatic]

66. The replies are not saying there is no sexism; but rather, they're challenging

the premise of your OP about substituting "woman" for "black."

[Mooney]

73. I see a lot of challenges to claims of sexism in this primary

but I don't see anyone saying sexism simply doesn't exist. Anyone who would say that it doesn't exist has either lived in a cave for their entire lives or is a fucking idiot.

[BlooInBloo]

42. Regardless of whether or not I agree with your conclusion...

.... People who think that grammatical similarity = socio-functional similarity are idiots.

[alcibiades_mystery]

43. Who thinks there's no sexism in our society

Are we forced to choose between using the word black and using the word women?

:shrug:

[spooky3]

47. at least one person, apparently

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5160958&mesg_id=5161172

[alcibiades_mystery]

74. Wow. One

Glad for the general declaration, then.

[niyad]

48. don't even try that little trick, because that isn't what is being said.

and just take a look at some of the responses here to see that there are many who would deny sexism exists, or, if it does, we shouldn't be talking about it, because OTHER issues are more important.

[Exilednight]

49. Let's see how well your idea of replacing words works.

Original:
I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton’s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

Your translation:
I am the son of a women man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton’s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a women American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.


Doesn't work.

[leftstreet]

50. When was the term "sexism" co-opted by women?

Sexism is discrimination based on gender.

[EFerrari]

56. LOL! Well done. n/t

[Sulawesi]

51. or jew, I agree...so how does that undercut what Obama says about race?

[stahbrett]

52. I tried - it doesn't make a lot of sense though:

I am the son of a women man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a women American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters.

At various stages in the campaign, some commentators have deemed me either "too women" or "not women enough." We saw racial tensions bubble to the surface during the week before the South Carolina primary. The press has scoured every exit poll for the latest evidence of racial polarization, not just in terms of white and women, but women and brown as well.

[Mike03]

54. Although the argument you've provided makes no sense whatsoever, I plead guilty to having made

that argument, and I agree with you that it was a stupid argument for me to make, and totally wrong. I was an idiot to suggest that the sexism and racism was a veneer imputed to the race by people who disagreed with eachother for reasons other than sex OR race.

So I agree with you, but were I you, I would find much better examples to prove your point.

[pointsoflight]

57. Ok, so what's your point?

Racism and sexism are both problems. Anyone who says otherwise is blind. But what's your point?

[Diane R]

58. Crap. I'm so tired of this. I'm a 58 yr old white women, an original feminist.

Hillary isn't losing because she's a woman. She losing because she's a bad candidate. She's losing because she contradicts herself daily. She's losing because she'll defy every rule, take every ethical shortcut, to win. She's losing because she has lined up corporate support rather than grassroots support. She's losing because no one ever knows which 'Hillary' will show up at any given time...'It's an honor' Hillary, or the 'Shame on you' Hillary. She's losing because we can't trust a word that comes out of her mouth, and because she exaggerates her experience, refuses to release tax returns and documents, and spends much of her time bashing one of the finest candidates this party has ever seen.

Hillary is NOT losing because the American public is sexist. Personally, I am represented by a woman State Senator, Lisa Brown, who is Majority Leader of the Senate in our state. I am represented by a horrible Republican Congresswoman, Cathy McMorris. I am represented by two very good women Senators, Murray and Cantwell. I am represented by a woman Governor, Christine Gregoire.

Hillary is losing because she can't get a person like me to vote for her. And, I assure you, I am not sexist.

[Forkboy]

59. Bravo!!!!!!!

Awesome post Diane!!!!! :applause:

[Upton]

62. Thank you, from a neighbor

unfortunately if you hadn't identified your gender, you would immediately be branded a sexist.

[niyad]

63. I am going to say the same thing I said to you in the other forum. THIS ISN'T ABOUT HILLARY

nowhere did I mention her. this is about a political and cultural fact of our entire society. please do not put words in my mouth, or read things I didn't say.

you were an original feminst? what have you done for your sisters lately?

[riverdeep]

68. Great post.

But the Hillary supporters use circular reasoning to charge sexism. If you don't support Hillary, REGARDLESS of your stated reasons, you really are not supporting her because of sexism. It may be subconscious sexism, but it's sexism nonetheless. I would love to ask them, what reason would you consider valid to not support her? I guess there aren't any. Because if you're not in love with her, you're a sexist-the only possible reason for not supporting Hillary.

[ecstatic]

64. Wrong site? Who on DU would insist that there is no sexism

in our society? :shrug:

[niyad]

69. read some of the responses here, and on anyt other thread where sexism

is mentioned.

[saltpoint]

75. If you take any public comments by Hillary Clinton and substitute all

the nouns with the phrase "Macaroni and cheese -- Christ, who needs it?" , you will have some idea of how the mind of Salvador Dali might have worked.