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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:25 PM
Original message
Hillary voted for war?
Here's what Bush said in 2002:

Q Mr. President, how important is it that that resolution give you an authorization of the use of force?

BUSH: That will be part of the resolution, the authorization to use force. If you want to keep the peace,
you've got to have the authorization to use force. But it's -- this will be -- this is a chance for Congress
to indicate support. It's a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration's ability to keep
the peace. That's what this is all about.

Okay, once again:

BUSH: It's a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration's ability to keep the peace.
That's what this is all about.

Remember? Bush said he wanted the authorization to use force so that he'd have a strong bargaining
chip at the United Nations--and that the U.N. would get new inspectors in, and that, maybe,
this would lead to Saddam disarming without a war.

That's why 77 senators voted for the resolution. As John Kerry said at the time,

"Let me be clear, the vote I will give to the President is for one reason and one reason only:
To disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, if we cannot accomplish that objective
through new, tough weapons inspections in joint concert with our allies."

And we did get new, tough weapons inspections in joint concert with our allies.
And then Bush blew it by invading anyway.

It wasn't just possible to support the resolution without supporting Bush's war
--avoiding war was the specific reason Bush gave to support the resolution.

There's nothing incoherent about Kerry's position. Bush blew it. The resolution had the effect
(getting inspectors back in) that Kerry had intended. He was right. W was wrong.

Oh, and when Obama says "Hillary voted for the war"--it's a lie.

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purji Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. she trusted Bush
which shows a lack of judgment.
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freesqueeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. She bought the lies
This is the reason she's not talking about McCain today.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. FOOLISH--have you not seen her speech today? her press releases?
She bought the lies

This is the reason she's not talking about McCain today.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:29 PM
Original message
"...bipartisan support for this resolution makes its success in the United Nations
more likely, and therfore war, less likely." HRC

It's clear enough.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. "success in the United Nations more likely"
:wtf: At the time I was hoping that the Security Council would stop Bush by voting down his resolution (which Negroponte said would not authorize war without another vote). The bipartisan support and "success" at the UN only served to give Bush political cover at home for the war he was determined to start. That's a really stupid quote, trying to rationalise a stupid vote and encourage others to make the same mistake. And this is the experience and judgement that makes her "ready from day one"? :rofl: :cry: :rofl: :cry:

I be just laughing if so many people were not gullible enough to believe and support her.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Everybody knew it was a resolution to go to war, and to say otherwise is revisionist history.
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NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Exactly.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. how in the hell can it be revisionist if you got the words spoken
at the time, i e kerry and the other 77......Obama did not vote against the war. His entire campaign is built around the notion that he was bravely against the war - yet he never cast that vote.

Where was Obama's big anti-war speech in 2003? Where was Obama's big anti-war speech in 2004, at Kerry's convention? Where was Obama's big anti-war speech in 2005? Where was Obama's big anti-war speech in 2006?
Where was Obama's anti-war filibuster in 2007? Was stopping the war worth standing up, Barack?
Perhaps what concerns many of you obamabots, "If he's got more than a 2002 speech - where is it?"



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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. This isn't about Obama
This is about Hillary. She knew that there was a possibility for the president to bring us to war and she gave him authorization anyways. It is a big question mark of her judgment. To paint the IWR vote as anything other than a vote for war is dishonest at best. Hillary tried to cloak her comments in her speech in 2002 for political gain, but anybody and everybody knew that the IWR was a vote for war...
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. she knew what it was for and this is well documented. feeble pretending wont work too well
this might pass on other sites but not here.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Anyone with half a brain, OR who was not whoring for their
political viability, knew Iraq was a helpless backwater that was no threat to the U.S., and should have voted NO. PERIOD.

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. According to you ,Kerry, Biden, Edwards and Hillary are nitwits.
:eyes:
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. YUP......they let the yellow-bellied draft-dodging repuke cowards
question their patriotism and they all caved like a bunch of chickenshits.

Iraq was under a 12 year embargo, had no fly zones covered north and south, had eye-in-the-sky satellites watching every move, and had no WMDs. Saddam and Iraq were no threat, and everyone knew it, including the weapons inspectors that Bush did not listen to.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. it didn't even take half a brain to know what the
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 01:03 PM by Carolina
IRAQ WAR RESOLUTION or resolution to use force against Iraq meant. All the revisionists can spin like tops but here at DU, we were appalled back in 2002 because WE KNEW exactly what an 'aye' vote meant.

And HRC, Kerry, Edwards, Biden and Dodd were all cowardly calculating whores and that's why they are LOSERS
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. That's funny! I have a whole educated brain, and I did not know this was
a farce until the weapons inspections stopped, and the drums of war started beating. This was, of course, after the Senator voted for the IWR. At that time most people on DU were listening to Scott ritter and, at that time, I knew there were no wmds in Iraq. Given that, the rest must also be a farce. We saw it clearly here on DU, but many, many people have never even heard of DU, and would be suspicious if they had. Of course, I did not believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, but I knew that Bill Clinton dealt with the Iraq crisis on a daily basis, so I felt it was quite possible that there were wmds in Iraq, and that this was dangerous, so it wasn't so far fetched that Iraq could be involved. I very soon changed my mind on that issue, and the rest is history.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. The biological/chemical weapons that Reagan & Rummy the Dummy
gave Saddam in the 1980s to fight Iran with were deadly as you know when unleashed on the Kurds. However, the issue of 'shelf life' of these types of WMDs did not arise until after Dumbya invaded Iraq, and should have been revealed earlier. The fact is that Sarin gas and the bio-weapons degrade in just a matter of a few years, which makes them ineffective. Some government chemist should have stepped up to the plate and revealed this instead of us finding out after the war began. Obviously we were all hoodwinked by a corrupt Bush junta. The only information I had was my own background as a biologist/chemist. Didn't mean to demean your brain. I just revile Bush so much I get pissed easy. I would make a lousy political spokes person.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hillary voted for peace!
because Bush said so !!!!

Worst voted for peace argument ever.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. She voted against the Levine amendment which would have
made it more difficult to go to war.

Thus she voted TWICE to go to war.

BUT, and this is more important, she has never apologized.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. plus she didn't even start opposing it until
2006 AFTER Dems won Congress, with the Dean strategy I might add.

Then, and only then, to maintain her political viability for this POTUS run, did she became anti-war.

An apology now is too little, too late. There are no do-overs for death, destruction and everything else that has been lost, including large chunks of the treasury.
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peoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Good try.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. In 1998 paul wolfowitz and others approached Pres........................
Clinton about colonizing the middle east. They had a document called (PNAC) The Project For a New American Century. That is why we are in Iraq. I knew that if Bush got in ti office that we would end up in Iraq. 9/11 was used as an excuse to do what they wanted to do in the first place and that is to go after Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, and others. The only reason we went to Afghanistan was to lay an oil pipe line. That was the first peace of legislation that Karzai passed.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. If she didn't know this vote was for war, then she's dumber than I thought.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. My Congresswoman a great american Barbara Lee!
Voted against the war in Iraq. So why did Hillary vote for it. Congresswoan Lee knew what Bush intended to do.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Hillary looked at Gulf War I and believed it would be the same thing.......
this was a political ploy to garner support among the moderate hawkish-doves, and doveish-hawks.

What she failed to recognized was that we had a different set of objectives in Gulf War I. The first was about giving Kuwait back its autonomy, and restoring the rightful government. We did it quickly before the government was in exile for a long period of time and the internal politics got convoluted. This war was about removing a government and replacing it with a new one.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. avoiding the war was the specific reason that Bush gave
in one press conference. Anybody who would believe that after Bush had spent months pushing for a war and mobilizing troops on the Iraq border, is really quite gullible. And yes I include Kerry and Edwards in that statement, neither of whom was my first (Clark) or second (Dean) choice in 2004.

More to the point though, when Obama and I were on the street in February saying "don't start this war" where was Hillary? She was on CNN saying "Saddam is NOT co-operating with the inspectors". She was meeting with NOW to defend her IWR vote and to say "It is up to Saddam to prevent this war by disarming or abdicating". When Bush actually started the war, the great fighter Hillary bravely stood up and said "we all have to support the troops now and hope for victory". She might as well have been part of a ventriloquist act with her sitting on Bush's lap.
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Well said! And she has continued the ventriloquist act
with regard to Cheney's and Chimp's statements on Iran.

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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. hmmm. So, what was the name of that bill again?
:shrug:
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. K, why didn't she just said Bush frickin liedvia the NIE?!?! Instead she says "I didnt read it"?!?!?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. She voted to give bush a blank check to go to war. Period.
Disgusting to try and play it any other way. It's a lie to say she voted for inspections. She's the one who lies about it over and over. And she has blood on her hands.
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O.M.B.inOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. To trust George W. Bush demonstrates poor judgment.
W. had already proven that he is a liar. Congress could have made a resolution to demonstrate that it was willing to use force if Iraq failed to comply with UN resolutions. Congress could have moved to revoke Bush's authority when Iraq did comply. 9/11 was a chance to reexamine our relationship with the world, but virtually all of Congress fearfully let the Bush Administration (and Republican media) define the American mood and the definition of Unity. Working for Change for her career? Blowing with the winds of change, perhaps.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. YES, Obam lied!!



....Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Hillary voted for war?
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
5122280, Hillary voted for war?
Posted by BenDavid on Mon Mar-17-08 12:25 PM

Here's what Bush said in 2002:

Q Mr. President, how important is it that that resolution give you an authorization of the use of force?

BUSH: That will be part of the resolution, the authorization to use force. If you want to keep the peace,
you've got to have the authorization to use force. But it's -- this will be -- this is a chance for Congress
to indicate support. It's a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration's ability to keep
the peace. That's what this is all about.

Okay, once again:

BUSH: It's a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration's ability to keep the peace.
That's what this is all about.

Remember? Bush said he wanted the authorization to use force so that he'd have a strong bargaining
chip at the United Nations--and that the U.N. would get new inspectors in, and that, maybe,
this would lead to Saddam disarming without a war.

That's why 77 senators voted for the resolution. As John Kerry said at the time,

"Let me be clear, the vote I will give to the President is for one reason and one reason only:
To disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, if we cannot accomplish that objective
through new, tough weapons inspections in joint concert with our allies."

And we did get new, tough weapons inspections in joint concert with our allies.
And then Bush blew it by invading anyway.

It wasn't just possible to support the resolution without supporting Bush's war
--avoiding war was the specific reason Bush gave to support the resolution.

There's nothing incoherent about Kerry's position. Bush blew it. The resolution had the effect
(getting inspectors back in) that Kerry had intended. He was right. W was wrong.

Oh, and when Obama says "Hillary voted for the war"--it's a lie.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. No Hillary lied if Congresswoman Lee voted against the war then Hillary knew what the hell..........
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 01:06 PM by ej510
she was doing. She was doing it because at the time the republicans wre using the term unpatrotic. And she voted so she would not look unamerican. Just as most of those in congress did. Hillary is not above the fray.
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Lautremont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. So what's your opinion of senators who voted against the resolution?
Do you think they're a bunch of untrusting, cynical cranks who should have simply accepted El Pretzeldente when he explained his purely peaceable aims? Because if you think Clinton did the right thing, you must think that those who saw through Bush's incredible bullshit did the wrong thing.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. AIPAC and PNAC
'nuf said.

She voted for war and you're damned delusional.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
31. K, you can say it was a mistake...what about the vote for Iran!??!?!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. Some of the experience she has includes being a Director for LaFarge
the French based corporation that included a covert US component (Kennametal) that armed Saddam Hussein's Iraq with things like chemical weapon raw materials, military computers, shell casings, solid fuel for rockets, etc.-remember IRAQGATE?

"Iraqgate--A Case Study of a Big Story With Little Impact" by David Shaw (10-27-1997 LA Times)
http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/food/la-me...

"Whatever Happened to IRAQGATE" by Kenneth R. Timmerman (8-12-1997 Gulf War Veterans Resource Web repost)
http://www.gulfweb.org/doc_show.cfm?ID=527

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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
35. Nevermind ...
STUPID.
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