The Clinton campaign appears to be trying to undermine the authority of the DNC.

[madfloridian]

These two campaigns are using vastly different methods and tools. One is using the old 18 state strategy, where only a few states count. The other is using a lot of components of the DNC's 50 State plan.

One is trying to abide by the rules of the committee which as traditionally governed party primaries and elections. The other has set up a "shadow DNC" that bypasses the traditional party committee.

Here is what the Obama campaign is doing:

Dave Boundy, the DNC's political director, says that while Clinton has used voter files from a private vendor, Obama has mostly purchased the files from state parties. Under the agreement with those parties, Boundy added, Obama will update the files to show which voters responded to his outreach efforts. That should help state parties and the eventual nominee target their own turnout campaigns this fall.

That will benefit the national party, and it will benefit the states. Clinton is using a private vendor.

Ari Berman at The Nation discusses the primaries

Dean has remained fastidiously neutral and low-key in this presidential cycle. Yet a number of his top supporters believe the Clinton-Obama contest has become a referendum on the kind of grassroots party building and citizen empowerment Dean pioneered as a presidential candidate and continued as DNC chair."

...."Howard Dean and Bill Clinton were both pragmatic, moderate governors of rural states who shared an affinity for balanced budgets and free trade. But ever since Dean became a presidential candidate, his relationship with the Clintons has been rocky. His campaign was a striking repudiation of Clintonian centrism, which had urged Democrats to support the Iraq War and throw piles of money at TV ads in a few key swing states every two to four years rather than systematically invest in long-term party building, from the local level up. The Clintons even urged their old friend Gen. Wesley Clark to run against Dean. When Dean entered the race for DNC chair in January 2005, Bill Clinton asked McAuliffe to consider staying on. When he declined, Governors Bill Richardson and Ed Rendell were floated as possible replacements. In the end, the Clintons remained officially neutral, and Ickes, a key Clinton ambassador to the party's liberal wing, endorsed Dean for chair, giving his candidacy a huge boost. But the brief honeymoon didn't hold.

..."In his final years as DNC chair, McAuliffe had developed a list of Democratic donors and fundraisers. When Dean came in, state party chairs, who found McAuliffe's list ill suited to their needs, asked Dean to build a national voter database. He hired new consultants and spent $10 million expanding the voter file. The move angered McAuliffe, and Ickes launched his own database, which was widely viewed as a buttress to Clinton's presidential campaign and a challenge to Dean."

The way the states of Florida and Michigan have played out to have such a major role in disrupting the primary season, in hurting the fundraising at the DNC, and in the anger erupting from people who are beginning to tie things together....the way it happened was viewed at first as only two states wanting their votes to count.

Now it is beginning to be viewed as perhaps an orchestrated effort with the media on board with the state parties. That is putting it tactfully.

On a number of occasions during this cycle, the Clinton campaign has questioned the DNC's authority. The first split came during the Nevada caucuses, when Clinton allies challenged the DNC over the validity of caucus sites that they thought favored Obama. The courts ruled in the DNC's favor, but the showdown in Nevada looked like small potatoes compared with the growing debate over whether to seat the Michigan and Florida delegates. The Clinton campaign's PR blitz in favor of seating them was a clear affront to Dean's leadership. "The DNC rule is the rule, and it's not going to change just because Clinton says we're going to change it," says one Dean confidant.

The "shadow" DNC...its true face is emerging the last week.

A few months earlier, The New Republic had reported that Clinton's camp was "laying the groundwork to circumvent the DNC in the event that Clinton wins the nomination." This shadow DNC had a number of integral parts: adviser Harold Ickes would develop state-of-the-art technology to help Clinton reach prospective voters; EMILY's List and Clinton's allies in organized labor would launch an unprecedented effort to turn out supporters, especially women voters; former DNC chair Terry McAuliffe would raise untold sums from wealthy donors and the business community; and communications honcho Howard Wolfson would direct an unrelenting war room. Ever since 1992 the Clintons had used the DNC as an outpost for raising money from big donors, and funding candidates had taken precedence over nurturing progressive organizers. That model would continue into '08. Dean could remain at the DNC as a figurehead but only if he stayed in line.

The biggest indicator yet that the Clinton campaign does not intend to follow the DNC are the statements she made in recent interviews.

The answer from the Obama campaign is always "we intend to follow the rules set out by the DNC."

This may be something happening that I mentioned once a long time ago. I once said that there are already three parties. I said the Democratic Leadership Council was the third. Looks like there may have been some truth to that.

[midnight armadillo]

1. Big surprise.

It has become apparent that Maureen Dowd was right all along...the Clintons care only for their own advancement, the American people and the Democratic party be damned.

[hueyshort]

6. The Clintons aren't the only citizens who

care about their advancement.
Those of us who work for a living care very much that our President
is a tireless worker, as opposed to a figurehead to appease the
guilt of elitists.

[babylonsister]

9. Which figurehead is appeasing the guilt of elitists?

How do you define an elitist? A college kid? A 52-year old mid-income white woman? How exactly are you convincing yourself of this?

[roguevalley]

15. Dean is the best thing to happen to the DNC and he has helped

make my state competitive. Fuck the elitist swine that want to keep the 15 state strategy and fuck terry mccauliffe.

[NoFederales]

45. I agree about Dean--the 50 State Strategy is an inclusive attempt

to put progressive politics back at the base of public participation. This is a no-no to the elitist political aristocracy who are trying desperately to Kill citizen input. This elitist oligarchy transcends Party affiliation, though I believe it is strongest in the Republican neoconservative groups, there are as strong Democratic Party elements which some on this board would call DLC members. I believe the Clintons to be part of the elitist group, perfectly synchronized with corporate goals for political dominion in permanently changing our American Republic.

I wish Obama would mention the 50 State Strategy as an all inclusive method for citizen participation every time the Clinton campaign starts spewing their "large-state" meme.

NoFederales

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

62. You said it! Cute dog by the way.

[MercutioATC]

12. Stalin was a "tireless worker" too...

I don't question Clinton's drive or willingness to work hard to get what she wants.

It's her goals and methods that trouble me.

[sudopod]

36. Kim Jong Il reportedly only sleeps 4 hours a night

He's workin hard for the people, you know. :p

[madfloridian]

13. "elitists"?

That is a talking point straight from the right wing.

Democrats never used to call each other things like that.

That is one of Wolfson's methods...make the supporters of Obama appear to be elitists.

Heck, why not? They did it to Dean in 2004 and it worked then.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

55. Your words to me: "homophobic, atavistic, narrow minded blame freak "

I would hope some would not find that acceptable....but you just never know.

It is a personal attack on me.

[madfloridian]

57. I guess it is ok to call people names like that now.

Used to be calling someone by that name who is not one would not be allowed.

[madfloridian]

58. Well, I guess I must get used to being called a homophobe.

And I guess you will do it in every thread from here on.

Because I questioned what the Blade and blog were doing....I am now a homophobe.

Well, it is unfortunate that is not breaking the rules at DU now. It really is.

If it continues, if you continue to call me one throughout the boards, then I will have to keep pointing out what you are doing.

I was hoping someone cared enough to defend me....but they don't.

You win.

[madfloridian]

63. Yep, madfloridian, just get used to it.

There are no rules here now about calling people names like that.

[tammywammy]

65. It's gone now

I alerted as well.

[madfloridian]

67. Thank you so very much.

I have never been called that in my life. Hugs back to you.

[tammywammy]

64. madfloridian is a respected DUer that's been here for years

You shouldn't attack members for being "homophobic, atavistic, narrow minded blame freak" when they're obviously not.

[Demeter]

47. The Clintons Went After Howard Dean From the First Primary He Entered

Grass roots populism scared them to death--a real populist like Dean or Obama would destroy Hillary's "fake populist" campaign.

It is just desserts for the Clintons that Obama came along, with Dean at the helm of the party.

[FARAFIELD]

8. State of the ART?

what ca-ca, if they are so state of the art why arent more people voting for them and why arent they winning and why cant they learn how to win a caucus (other than Nevada)

[krkaufman]

32. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day; or once if on military time.

Maureen's not what I would call a source of objective opinion.

[hueyshort]

2. DNC is undermining the Clintons

FL, MI etc.

[Hawkeye-X]

5. You continue to ignore the story about FL and MI?

And you blame DNC for it? Even *I* know you haven't read any of madfloridan's journals - that ignorant response shows me all I need to know about you.

Hawkeye-X

[FARAFIELD]

7. What a laugh

Undermining, they set rules and we accept them, then after she gets more votes (simply because she left her name on) she wants them to count. You cant split hairs, voters were told they wouldnt be choosing delegates so their was no reason to vote. End of story. Either revote or dont count them. An

[Little Star]

10. Bingo.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. Except the "b," "i" and "g" are missing. Iow: N-O.

[sudopod]

37. Where are you from? Soviet Russia?

</ Yakov >

[Iceburg]

43. Dean and the DNC are undermining more than the Clintons

Watch Dean toss the GLBT aside with Gonzales-like memory recall.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. Thanks for having a memory!

He refused to go back and correct it too. Refused.

[L0oniX]

50. Oh Please ...Hillary is so bad for our party that the repukes are voting for her.

She should be kicked out of the party. Just Google "Republicans vote for Clinton" and go figure.

[BrklynGreenDog]

60. Obama is recruiting Republicans and they are voting for him.

The have a highly public, and possibly illegal, campaign in PA and SD to get Republicans and Independents to change their registration so they can vote AGAINST HRC. They are also trying to change the rules for SD primary to be open so they don't have to have the 'stigma' of having to register Dem.

My mom is a poll worker in a NJ town with very few Dems. The precinct was flooded with people who had changed in the last 30-days or were undeclared and declared Dem. that day. She queried some and they were definitely receiving calls, though they would not say from whom.

All primaries (there should not be any caucuses) should be closed and no registration changes accepted if the current declared party has already chosen a candidate (

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

66. At least it's good for something.

[Hawkeye-X]

3. someone needs to bonk Emily's List and tell them what's going on

and how badly they are being used...

Hawkeye-X

[KaptBunnyPants]

16. You think they don't know?

[davidinalameda]

4. appears?

you're too kind

they are trying to blame the actions of the state parties for not following the rules on the national party for setting the rules

[madfloridian]

24. I know. I really was trying to say it nicely.

But I am angry about it...so much so I have to watch my tongue.

[madfloridian]

11. "Howard Wolfson would direct an unrelenting war room"

That part especially rings true.

[sudopod]

38. Why does everything have to be a fucking war? nt

[me b zola]

17. K&R

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. Hunter S Thompson on Clintons - "He would stab his friends in the back."

"Nixon stabbed his Enemies in the back, but Clinton did it to his Friends.
His lust to inflict Punishment surpassed even Nixon's"

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/graffiti/hunter.htm
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/11/3/154919/096


"I don't think it is a two-party system. And I think the reason Clinton was re-elected is that he understands the same thing. He took the crime issue away from the Republicans, and now he's taking the tax issue away. He's proposing a lower capital-gains tax than the Republicans already had. So now the Democrats are champions of big business. He's an extremely skilled fucking politician. "


"Well, the things that Clinton has been accused of are prima facie worse than what Nixon was run out of office for. Nixon was never even accused of things like Clinton is being accused of now. Bringing the Chinese into the political process, selling out to the Indonesians, selling the Lincoln bedroom at night, dropping his pants, trying to hustle little girls in Little Rock. God, what a degenerate town that is. Phew."

[madfloridian]

35. I would say Hunter was not fond of Bill.

[olkaz]

61. Although they did have some interesting correspondence.

I believe in one of his books, he shows the letters. Been a while though.

God, Thompson wrote great letters.

[KittyWampus]

19. Clintonite McAuliffe was head of the DNC when the rules pertaining to MCI/FL were established

and he himself threatened states with same penalty Dean enforces.

All McAuliffe did as head of the DNC was update the data base. And that was all about Money to channel to Democrats who mainly swore loyalty to the Clintons/existed within the already defined Democratic core states.

[madfloridian]

23. Yes, and he appointed the committee that made the rules

that he is now advocating breaking.

Terry McAuliffe wants to change horses in the middle of the stream.

[madfloridian]

20. "It'll be over by February 5." from The Nation link.

"While the Obama campaign prepared for the long haul, Clinton poured most of her resources into a few key early states, expecting to have the nomination wrapped up by Super Tuesday. "It's not a very long run," Clinton predicted in late December. "It'll be over by February 5."

[PerfectSage]

21. This really is the central issue of this campaign

Do you want a Democratic party with a strong grassroots organization or not?

It's also an organizational culture issue: decentralized or centralized decision making and authority.
Everything I've read about organizational culture says decentralized is superior. Decentrailed organizational culture is much more adaptable and motivational.

Empowering people is also in accord with progressive values.

This is what I most admire about Obama. His strong grassroots campaign.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:FVnij7FcChUJ:webuse...

[madfloridian]

22. Yes. And Obama is concerned about down ticket races as well.

He helped Foster take Hastert's seat.

Dean's goal was to rebuild the "farm team" of the Democratic party. He said there would no one to pick from to run if we kept concentrating on the same tired strategy.

[madfloridian]

25. I found the ad Obama made for Foster in IL.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I59wuHGUJe0

Good one.

[polichick]

26. What was their motto again?? Oh yeah...

WIN AT ALL COSTS!

[madfloridian]

29. In it to win it.

...

[madfloridian]

27. Hillary just shot down the "cut in half" proposal. FL running out of options.

Just saw this McClatchy article.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/nationalpolitics/167352...

"Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, a Clinton ally who backs voting by mail but acknowledges its lack of popularity, has floated a second compromise: Strip Florida of half its delegates and assign the remaining ones to the two candidates based on the Jan. 29 presidential primary, which favored Clinton. A spokesman for Nelson said the idea has morphed into giving each of Florida's delegates a half vote. But over the weekend, Clinton's campaign tossed cold water on the proposal, which would cut her delegate haul in half.

"The 2.5 million people in Michigan and Florida who voted deserve to be counted," Clinton said Saturday, signaling her support for a redo in Michigan, which like Florida violated national party rules by holding an early primary. "If it were my preference, we'd count their votes, but if not, then they should have the opportunity to have a full-fledged primary waged for them and revote."

One person, one vote. Clinton spokesman Phil Singer has told reporters that the campaign believes in the "bedrock principle" of one person, one vote.

"There's a solemn obligation on all the people involved in this process ... to ensure that the votes that have been cast are counted and the people who participated are allowed to have their voices heard," Singer said.

[madfloridian]

31. Nelson proposes, Hillary shoots it down. What a pair.

Bill Nelson is in hot water here for his pushiness.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[Scurrilous]

28. K & R

[KittyWampus]

30. This is what the Clintons do. Destroy Democratic infrastructure and principles to advance themselves

they are into Power.

[madfloridian]

33. They set it up not to need the party structure.

I really do believe they and others in the DLC have been effectively 3rd party for years now.

[madfloridian]

34. Kick

.

[Swamp Rat]

39. The DLC = PNAC.... Created to destroy the Democratic Party from within.

Clinton is a DLC Team Leader... do the math.

[ima_sinnic]

40. I have come to despise that TRAITOR with every fiber of my being

she is just a Lieberman-Miller clone with tits.

Anybody who thinks she gives a rat's ass about the country, about the party, or about themselves is a total fool.

[L0oniX]

49. Yep ...The republicans are voting for her ...that's how she won Ohio.

Just Google "republicans vote for Clinton" you'll see what I mean.

[ima_sinnic]

51. yeah, I know--but for what it's worth, should be careful what they wish for

it would be a bitter and ironic victory. It would almost make it bearable, thinking of those a-holes slapping themselves in the forehead with regret --DUH--you voted for her, now live with it

hey fweeps, how ya gonna like it when Hillary uses those FISA powers that your buddy Bush created to listen in on your insane ramblings against her? HAHAHAHA!

[BrklynGreenDog]

69. Quite the oppistie is happening... Obama camp is recruiting Republicans

They have a very public campaign to do so in PA and SD, even publicized on this site. I posted more info above.

If the above post refers to the McCain supporting NY Times, I am very doubtful of the basis for the story, and it reads with a very heavy slant.

Why doesn't the Obama campaign release figures on just how many non-Democrats they've gotten to vote in the 'Red' states they are so proud of 'winning'?

[jlake]

41. GO HILLARY!

[Eurobabe]

42. Gee, ya think?

I hate the Clintons and their shenanigans.

Hey Bill, give me back that Library donation you fleeced me for!

[barack the house]

44. Stay strong DNC our soldiers suffer far worse.

[paulk]

46. the DNC is not some monolithic organization

it's "authority" is subject to the will of it's members, which include Hillary Clinton and her supporters.

There are millions of us, and our voices have a right to be heard.

[L0oniX]

48. Hillary Clinton undermines the Democratic party ...the republicans are voting for her.

Republicans switch to vote for Clinton to help McCain
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?%2F...

Many voting for Clinton to boost GOP
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/17/m... /

Republicans Turning Out in Droves to Vote for Clinton
http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/03/republicans_turni...

[biglefthander]

54. "appears to be trying?"

without a full delegate seating from MI and FL this thing is over for Hill. No deal, no delegates.

DLC = Democratic Neocons.

Hillary supporters should join the rest of the party on the high road and encourage her to drop out for the good of the party.

[paparush]

56. The Precious! She must has it!!!

[madfloridian]

76. Yep

[rocktivity]

59. TRANSLATION: The DLC is trying to ANNHILIATE the DNC.

You're welcome.


rocknation

[tammywammy]

68. Another good post madfloridian

Too late to recommend.

[madfloridian]

70. Thanks....and thanks for your kind help earlier.

I will remember.

[tammywammy]

71. You've really educated me on the delegate situtation in Florida

That I won't forget. I've throughly enjoyed your threads these past few months.

[Oilwellian]

72. I trust Dean implicitly

Have faith Madfloridian...he's got our backs.

[meow mix]

73. this is why she cant be on the ticket. the clintons need to be neutered.

for good.

[madfloridian]

74. Hillary, changing the rules daily.

Kick for Governor Dean whom she is trying to destroy.

[madfloridian]

75. And another threat to the DNC from a Florida party leader.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...