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Honestly, how does anyone know Obama doesn't believe some of what Wright is saying?

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Herman Munster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:22 PM
Original message
Honestly, how does anyone know Obama doesn't believe some of what Wright is saying?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:25 PM by Herman Munster
Even if he doesn't believe it all, he takes it in. It's a viewpoint he looks at when making decisions.

And that will be how republicans will frame it to destroy him.

Obama's campaign isn't about his experience or accomplishments.

It's about his judgment.

Jeremiah Wright is going to be a big problem for Obama because it cuts at the whole core of his campaign.

Why has Obama had a 20 year friendship with Wright where he has referred to him as his spiritual mentor and advisor? This is not a rogue pastor saying racist things. This is someone who has had a deep impact on Obama's life. This was the person Obama says brought him to Christ.

He was the minister at Obama's marriage. He baptized his two daughters. He was the inspiration behind the title of one of his books and Obama praised him glowingly in passages in his books..

Why did Obama stay with the church after Wright gave Louis Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award?

http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_wright_farrakhan/2...

When Minister Farrakhan speaks, black America listens, Wright said. His depth on analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening. He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest.

Hailing Farrakhans integrity and honesty, Wright said, His love for Africa and African-American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change, and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose.


Is it really believable that in the span of 20 years, he never heard Wright say these controversial statements? That doesn't pass the straight face test. Why didn't he leave the church earlier?

Why did he give that church $22,500 as recently as 2006? To me you are a fool if you give that kind of money to a church and not know what is going on during Sunday sermons.

In April 2007, Wright told the NY Times that he warned Obama that he may have to disassociate himself from him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.h...

Mr. Wright, who has long prided himself on criticizing the establishment, said he knew that he may not play well in Mr. Obamas audition for the ultimate establishment job.

If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me, Mr. Wright said with a shrug. I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.


When Obama was set to announce his run for President back in January 2007, Obama had asked him to have a role in his announcement ceremony for President. But at the last minute, Obama changed his mind. He said Wright got kind of "rough" in his sermons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.h...

After all, back in January, Mr. Obama had asked Mr. Wright if he would begin the event by delivering a public invocation.

But Mr. Wright said Mr. Obama called him the night before the Feb. 10 announcement and rescinded the invitation to give the invocation.

Fifteen minutes before Shabbos I get a call from Barack, Mr. Wright said in an interview on Monday, recalling that he was at an interfaith conference at the time. One of his members had talked him into uninviting me, Mr. Wright said, referring to Mr. Obamas campaign advisers.


According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what weve decided is that its best for you not to be out there in public.

When you link Obama's preacher to Michelle Obama saying this is the first time she is proud of America, and Obama not putting his hand on his heart during the national anthem or wearing a flag pin, people will see a pattern. Obama had to have known Wright visited Muammar Gaddafi in Libya with Louis Farrakahan in 1984. He had to have known the church he was joining was deemed as radical.

People may say it's crazy and bullshit but let's just remember back to 4 years ago.

The republicans turned a war hero into a traitor to America. Remember the ad that destroyed John Kerry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phqOuEhg9yE

Wright's comments will make this and the Willie Horton ads that took out Dukakis look like nothing. And it's gone viral now. It's all over youtube and talk radio. It doesn't matter if the mainstream media ignores the story. Rush and Hannity and O'Reilly devoted their entire programs Thursday and Friday to this. The meme will be that Obama is un-american and his radical liberal views have been indoctrinated into his and his wife's mind for 20 years by his spiritual advisor Jeremiah Wright. He will be called dangerous to America.

And given the Elliot Spitzer incident where he in fact busted prostitution rings as attorney general while going on to use prostitution rings himself and hid his double life to everyone.

How can any of us know what Obama does or doesn't believe about America?

Politicians lie.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's not going to be 2004. Attacks on Patriotism will only go so far.
The big issues will be things like the Economy and Iraq.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. You think?
The war was raging in Iraq in 2004. The election was fought in Vietnam.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Give. me. a. break.
Quit beating a dead horse.
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Your posts are informative
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:27 PM by eileen_d
They are literally like watching GOP attack ad brainstorming sessions.
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alteredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. I know!
In an attempt to prove his twisted points, Hermie even provides links to Newsmax articles!

:)
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
46. sad to say...there is really no difference between the repukes and what we do to our own
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:12 PM by earthlover
The only difference i see is that Democrats eating their own will only give the Republicans later more credibility if they try to make the same arguements.

Thanks herman from President Mccain...
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Because when you examine Obama's books, speeches, legislative record, etc, it doesn't jive...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:25 PM by Drachasor
....with the anger that Wright so clearly was caught up in. Proposing he is lying about all this is basically saying he is some sort of Manchurian candidate, who is so skillful in hiding what he actually believes that it never shows up ANYWHERE in any statement that he makes.

That said, I am sure he understands and is sympathetic towards where Wright is coming from; but I believe that's how he tries to be about everyone.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Give it a rest Herman.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. How can we believe or not believe what we think is on
HC tax returns?

What about her Fellowship Religious Group?

What about her love of McCain?

HC lives in a glass house and we are waiting to find out her real story.
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. will you give it up already.
90% of the MSM is removing this story from its front pages already
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. Are you serious?
you actually have doubts about Obama's belief in America? This is getting old and sounding very right wing.
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. " And that will be how republicans will frame it to destroy him. "
And you're happily helping them along, eh? :evilfrown:
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hillary was involved with black nationalists and the black panther party in college
how are we to know she doesn't still believe in some of their views?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well, if she spend 20 years with a black panther party, I might
have had my doubts.
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wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. You win
Obama is clearly a racist, who when elected will push legislation for reverse Jim Crow Laws, make whites sit at the back of the bus, create separate restrooms for "pale" people, and ensure that those uppity white folk have limited access to government.

Dumbass.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Thank You. nt
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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. God bless you. n/t
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. Unless Obama was there on a day where he said "God Dam America" then
they won't have anything concrete, short and catchy to attach him to.

I personally think that because Obama was running for President part of the time he was going to this church, he would have left at the first instance of something controversial. The fact that he didn't suggests that the Rev. Wright only rarely says such inflammatory stuff.

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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. A better question is why McSame doesn't distance himself from Hagee
and Parsley, 2 bigoted jerk offs.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. Exactly which of Rev. Wright's beliefs...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:31 PM by Eric J in MN
...would cause Obama to be a bad president if he becomes president?

(assuming the two men share that belief)
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malik flavors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. Most progressives believe alot of what Wright said. Obama's 1/2 white so he's certainly not racist
if that's what you're asking.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. You think black people can't be racist?
Wright is a deeply conservative preacher.

It's not (always) the ideas he espouses but the tone and the gratuitous cruelty.
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malik flavors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. Um, ofcourse they can, but it's less likely when they're mother is white. Duh.
And you'd be pretty foolish to think he's a racist, since there's nothing to support such an outrageous claim.

Yep, Obama is racist against his mother and his grandparents that raised him, and hell, that whole side of his family. Right?
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. I would assume he does
Some of them are fairly reasonable if rather cruelly and violently expressed.

He has certainly adopted some of the preachy tone - thankfully not the ranting - so that his pronouncements are made to sound as if they come from god himself.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. I how do we know you're not a republican operative?
Your posts dont tell us you're not, so.........

:shrug:
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. I Believe Wright's Anti-War Setiment
probably did have an effect on Obama. I believe Obama when he says since Wright comes from a generation of blacks who fought hard to obtain civil rights is part of who he is. Obama, does not harbor the anger, he never experienced it, and that might be because he's half white.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. His very presence in the church for 20 years shows he agrees....
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:35 PM by BlackVelvet04
and of course he knew what Wright was preaching. Wright is his personal mentor and has been for many years.

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wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Absolutely
Obama can't wait to get elected President and round all the Whitey's up into camps.

Maybe he'll ship all us white people back to Europe where we belong! YES HE WILL!


Do you understand how stupid you all sound?
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. LOL
:rofl:
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. do you understand how stupid you guys sound
when you say that Obama doesn't agree with Wright? Of course he does....he chose the man as his personal mentor for 20 years.

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wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. So then he's all for racism right?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:48 PM by wileedog
He wants to put whitey down. Maybe pass legislation so we can't get cabs. I'm pretty sure he will forbid white folks from playing golf. For sure I better not ask a black girl out, I'll get pummeled by Obama's special police.

Asinine fear mongering and divisiveness. Obama clearly agrees no more with these views than the average Catholic with their child fondling priest. (apologies Catholics, just trying to make a point). Its you and the media that want to generalize a 20 year relationship into a 5 minute sound bite.

Moronic, obtuse and stupid.

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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. I didn't say anything about legislation, now did I?
Or special police?

People dont' ask someone they disagree with to be their personal mentor for 20 years. Now you can try and spin that any way you want but you just look idiotic.

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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Because god knows everyone who attends Mass every Sunday of their adult lives
believes EVERYTHING they hear the priests say. That's why there are NO pro-choice Catholics in the world.

It's also why there are no Jews who have ever eaten bacon.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
53. Yep....
if the priest is also their personal mentor.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Did Jimmy Carter's lifetime presence in a segregated, racist church in Plains, GA ...
mean he believed in segregation? No. He was the only one in that church who voted to allow black members. Everyone else voted for segregation. Yet Jimmy Carter did not leave that church. He taught Sunday School there. It took him until just a few years ago to finally leave the Southern Baptist Convention.

Your argument makes no sense.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
52. Wright was Obama's personal mentor.......
he KNEW what Wright was preaching and he agrees.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. In Obama's defense on this one....
Even as an ardent, hardcore defender of Sen. Clinton's, I will come to Obama's defense on this one.

I do not believe congregants should be held responsible for what their pastor espouses from the pulpit.

You are not going to agree 100% of the time with what your pastor says. If you do, that's a problem, because it means more than likely you are following man instead of following the Bible.

I've always believed that one of the reasons it is so important to read the Bible for yourself, is so that you can know when your pastor is way off base, and you won't be sitting there saying yea and amen to everything.

As for the issue of whether Obama should have left his church--well, I think that's a question only he can answer. No pastor and no church is perfect, and I don't believe in just hopping from church to church. So the question then becomes: what types of imperfections in the church are you willing to tolerate? When is the point that you believe you need to find a new church home?

That's a very personal decision.

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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Well said!
If I could recommend a subthread, I'd rec this! :toast:
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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Thank you for posting this.
That's a very fair-minded thing to say.

I'm an atheist, but the whole notion of judging the candidates based on things in their religious lives makes me very uncomfortable. I didn't even like it when it was happening to Mitt Romney.
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
51. kicking
:kick:

for this comment!
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
25. Fifteen minutes before Shabbos? Sounds like Black Hebrews
You should hear 'em on Flatbush Avenue ... not knowing I'm in their audience, shouting that they're the real lost tribes and all white Jews are devils. Great fun in my hometown - you can catch their program on public access.

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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. "Real Jews Are Black" was a classic show.
There's nothing like those BCAT production values.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. "he was at an interfaith conference at the time"
Rev. Wright doesn't usually refer to Friday before sundown as before the start of Shabbos, as far as I know.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
26. Let's talk about health care, education, Iraq and the economy.
Any takers?
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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
27. Honestly, how does anyone know Obama DOES?
You don't. None of us do.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
30. You are a repub operative - trying to sway dem voters.
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thevoiceofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
38. Bullshit, Herman
99% of us believe what Wright is saying.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
39. Honestly, how does anyone know Herman Munster doesn't believe some of what David Duke is saying?
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
41.  We have murders and traitors in the White House now and they act on their belief.
George Bush is reported to have said the Constitution is only a piece of paper in my book that is "Un-American".

I have yet to meet any politician I am willing to trust.

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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
42. I bet the Black Panthers have a button they push
on Inauguration Day, he will then go into Manchurian mode and speak of the white devil.
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #42
61. ...And Race War...
...according to one particularly mentally unstrung long-timer around here.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. The freepers are getting the racial division they've been looking for
and some of us are falling for it hook line and sinker.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
43. Herman, you do a good job of changing me to an Obama supporter
as I can't stand the bigoted smears coming from the anti-Obama camp.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
44. You look at his life and actions, in private and public
You ask yourself, could Barack Obama really believe in black separatism, as Pastor Wright has been presumed to advocate (heavy on the presumed)? Well, we know he has many white friends; he has worked and socialized in white society, he lived when young with his white family.

Does Barack Obama adhere to his church's idea about shunning the "black bourgeoisie"? Um, I don't think he would have bought a large, expensive home if he believed that. Note, however, he bought a large, expensive home, after he made a lot of money on his book, not in the hip or chi-chi neighborhoods of Chicago (the Gold Coast, Lincoln Park) but on the South Side, which has a mixture of university intellectuals and lower income black folk.

In the Illinois Legislature, did he do anything over the course of his eight-year career that would lead any of us to believe that he was unpatriotic, radical, white-hating, or any of the other ridiculous things that have been attributed to Pastor Wright? Believe me, the papers here would tell you. The voters would tell you.

As an instructor at the University of Chicago Law School on constitutional law, did any of his students detect a disdain for our Constitution or our country?

You'd have to believe he is the Manchurian candidate of all Manchurian candidates if you think he could be "living amongst us" these last twenty years secretly plotting a nefarious anti-American, anti-white agenda.

Sorry, this is nuts. WYSIWYG: Look at what this man has done, and therein you will see what he believes.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
45. Because it doesn't make sense that he would share those views
]As I wrote in my blog post this morning, I don't for one second believe Barack Obama shares the anger or resentment towards whites that is evident in his pastor's statements. He has no reason to. He may have struggled with his racial identity growing up, but his life story is an American success story, the "skinny kid with the funny name" who has gone from a rocky childhood to a serious contender for president of the United States. His father grew up poor in Kenya and was able to come to the United States and get an education due to the generousity of the United States government. That is the story Obama told when I went to see him speak at American University last month, and everything I have heard him say, as well as what he wrote in his books, conveys nothing but pride and gratitude for this country.

I think it's possible Michelle might share some of those views, since she had a more traditional upbringing in inner city Chicago. But she is not running for president.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
48. "hope". The fact is we can't read Obama's mind. We can only look at his actions
As another poster said, part of being everything to everyone is that everyone "knows" what you "really" think.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
49. Excuse me..........
You must be blind, this is a free speech country and people cna say what they want. You can agree or disagree. That is the real question. You must disagree like Obama!
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
50. I'm sorry.........
I didn't look to see you were Herman Munster. Now that I have seen that......Let's all do the "monster mash"... Hillary will love it. Thanks Herman.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
56. Careful, or Fox News will sue you for copywrite infringement
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
57. I assume he does
And most of it is just fine. But the tone and the cruelty and the off the wall stuff is crazy.
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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:27 AM
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59. Apparently they all have you on iggy now Herman..
But if that was true, there would be crickets on this thread ;)
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:29 AM
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60. How do we know you're really Herman Munster?
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