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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:19 PM
Original message
She has lost more ground.
The pledged delegate lead is now 160.

Her lead among super delegates has dropped from 80 to 37 in the last 30 days

Sha has lost the last three elections including Iowa today.

Since Super Tuesday she has lost 15 out of 17 with her only two wins being Ohio and Rhode Island.

Over 55% of her votes came from just 6 out of 42 states and she lost two of those (Texas and Illinois)

There are 10 elections left but only 8 of them are actual states.


And yet there are some supporters here who claim that she has the momentum and that it is her's to lose. That Obama should quit the race or simply accept the vice presidential nomination because of Resko or Wright.

She is going to lose the pleged delegate race and probably the Popular vote race. She has already lost the "won states race". What exactly is she going to win beyond the adoration of her core support?


And you have the audacity to call Obama followers cult-like?
You have the audacity to say that WE are delusional?

I am not gloating at all. I am just wondering when you folks are going to come to your senses.

I have never suggester that Hillary should get out of the race. I have never suggested that her supporters should give up.

I would never say that.


But some of you are in abject denial about where this primary is.



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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. either way
the DLC will destroy obama and we will get to chose between mccain and hrc. or obama wins.
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Al From and his corporatist friends can go to hell n/t
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. IF Hillary loses this nomination, I would look for the DLC to create a 3rd party after this election
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Whem/if Obama ever wins a must win large state other than his home state - he wins my vote
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Why?
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. He won Texas
He won Virginia
He won Wisconsin
He won Maryland
He won Georgia
He won Washington
He won Colorado

He tied in Missouri

He will probably win North Carolina

We will see what happens in Florida and Michigan.

Hillary has won Ohio
Hillary has won California


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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Let's please get this straight....
He won the Taxas Caucus and she won the Texas primary....

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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. And he got more delegates; therefore, he 'won' in meaningful terms.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:30 PM by Spider Jerusalem
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. He wone more delegates in the state. That is afterall the thing that you
count at the convention
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ampad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. I bet you
That Hillary would trade that "perceived" win in Texas for the delegates Obama won in Texas because contrary to popular belief she knows delegates count. I know it makes her followers feel so much better knowing she won the perception of a win but as most people have been screaming for the last month or so, it all comes down to the delegates. Now that the NYT has come out with a piece stating that most superdelegates will probably follow the person with the most delegates and the pop vote there is no way around this spin on big states and such. They know what is up but let them keep thinking whatever, we know it makes them feel better.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. He wone more delegates in the state. That is afterall the thing that you
count at the convention
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. That's right.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:33 PM by Kittycat
He has the dedicated supporters. She had Rush Republicans.

ETA - but it's the delegates that matter.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. Are all the results of the Texas caucus in?
Last time I checked, only about 45% of precincts had reported, and the full results weren't expected for another 10 days or so.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
37. LOL....
...Obama won because these are NOT separate actions but but both are part and parcel of how TX chooses it delegates to the Dem Convention. The one who got the most delegates wins the state. And why? It is because the NUMBER OF DELEGATES is what matters at the convention. Did you manage to somehow miss how the nominee is chosen?

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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
43. Which of those do you think had more crossover Rethugs voting just to tilt it to Clinton?
Answer: the primary.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
48. Thanks, Perky. Bookmarked, K&R
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Look, I happen have a life outside of DU....
I am an accountant and am very very busy at this time of year...

I looked at the results on CNN and it was clear to me that Obama won the caucus and Clinton won the primary...

Which is what I stated...

So Obama got more delegates than Clinton...

But Clinton still got more votes than Obama...

Whether or not republicans crossed over to vote in the primary...

So really, it still is a true statement...

I am really really glad that there are so many people here who are just so wrapped up in every freaking detail about the election process in every state, every county, and every precinct....

Me, well, I use to be when I was young and didn't have a whole lot of else going on in my life...

But now, all I can say, Buddy, is thanks for being such a....

Well, I'll just let you fill it in, bucko...
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. You must not have heard Rendell saying Obama would beat McCain in PA, hmm?
And as to those other 'must-win' large states...a lot of them are safe states for ANY Democrat. Not just Hillary. Nice try, though.
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Does PA qualify? NC? Or is it just the ones that are already past?
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. I will guarantee California for Obama...in the GE
is that big enough for you?

Duke
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. Same here from this Californian....
...Calif will go BLUE in Novembers. McCain has less than a snowball's chance in hell to take the state!
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
42. And I will guarantee New York for Obama, and a strong showing Texas.
Edited on Sun Mar-16-08 10:37 AM by Exilednight
Edit: in the GE that is. I seriously think he could possibly win Texas. All polls show him in a dead heat against McCain.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Done!
VA, TX, GA, WI, MN, MO, and WA
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
39. Definition of a must-win state: any state that Hillary has won and Obama has lost.
Must-win states can only be determined following a primary or caucus.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Time to change her name to History Clinton. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Suicide bomber! Good God, man, please don't alert my mama.

She'll be greatly upset. And my cell hasn't even gotten the "go" signal.

:sarcasm:
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. How dare you point out all those facts about the front runner!
We must use the media to spin our way out of this by using the lessons Karl Rove taught us, and smearing anyone on our way.

*cough* *sarcasm*

:spank:
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usrbs Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. I admit it's a long shot now
But if FL and MI revote (FL should, at least), and she wins big there and in PA and gets the majority of the popular vote, I think she can make a legitimate claim to the super-delegates. And there's no rule that they have to vote according to the number of delegates, especially if the popular vote goes to HRC.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. That is her only shot probably but it is a long shot.
I suspect that if Florida is re-votes she wins, but I also suspect that He wins MI. she might win ten delegates in PA but that is going to be offset by North Carolina and Oregon. She is not going to close the delegate gap substantially in the 555 that are left in pledged delegates even if they get split

.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
41. If...if...if...
...if...

IMO, your post pretty much admits that at best she has a far outside chance. Wouldn't be better for the party and our chances in November if she dropped out so that we can get onto the real task? Beating the shit out of that POS McCain come November.
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usrbs Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Why should the better candidate drop out when there's still a chance?
Edited on Sun Mar-16-08 01:25 PM by usrbs
If the shoe was on the other foot I'm sure you would be urging a fight to to the end.
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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
44. FL and MI re-votes are going to hurt Clinton not help her.
Why?
1. As soon as either state gets a re-vote plan in place, those delegates and votes go poof, they are no longer counted, and thus Hillary falls back even further in the delegate and popular vote measures, until at least June. Ouch.
2. Obama wasn't on the ballot in MI, so it's very likely he'll do better than the 40% or so that uncommitted got. Turnout was low because MI voters thought it didn't count.
3. The original FL vote had more than two candidates on the ballot. Hillary's vote take there is probably topped out, but Obama's will surely rise without the presence of Edwards, et. al. on the ballot.

Re-votes in MI and FL are the final nail in the coffin for Hillary I'm afraid.

:dem:
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usrbs Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Maybe so, maybe not. Let's see. n/t
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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. Sure. Let's see. Or you could at least make an effort to refute my
points in some manner, rather than just waving your magic wand.

Anyway, looks like FL is now a moot point.

:dem:
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
:kick:
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'm on your side, but maybe it's better to just lay low for now
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:34 PM by Mike03
and not gloat about this.

My philosophy is to be gracious, hunker down, be respectful of the opinions of others, and not make annoying, insensitive posts.

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TexasLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. yup
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks for a sane and optimistic post...
Appreciate ya Perky simply telling it like it is.

I've been very surprised at the number of Obama supporters (???) who just kicked into panic mode over those goofy Wright tapes. Every candidacy has ups and downs - Obama's ups far out pace his downs.

What little reactionary mo Hillary's campaign thinks it will gain from this - will fade within a week.

In any case, Obama is in the drivers seat - and plans to stay there.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hillary is behind, but this primary is going to have to play out so
everyone can vote. I don't understand people that call for either candidate to drop out.






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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's the diabolical reverse psychology propaganda designed to demoralize.
It's like the oldest trick in the book.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. Yes.. "But someday you and me PinkIe... we will takeofver the world!
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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. True Democrats don't believe in math!
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R
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InAbLuEsTaTe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hillary's lost by every measure.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. But Obama only wins by rigging the vote!
That's how he won Ohio and Florida! Sieres! :o
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wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
32. Reality kick n/t
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
34. So this leaves us with...Edwards?
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. LOL sure Perry, I love the way you keep your head in the sand.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
45. K & R
:thumbsup:
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