A Little Even-Handedness (In Hopes That It Doesn't Offend)

[NanceGreggs]

A Little Even-Handedness (in Hopes That it Doesn’t Offend)

While I appreciate that tensions are at an all-time high around here these days, perhaps a little overall perspective might be in order – or might be shot down in flames, as the case may be.

There have been endless posts about how Obama doesn’t know what he’s up against when it comes to the inevitable Republican propaganda catapult being hauled out, readied for battle, and aimed in his direction.

The truth is that every time he’s been hit, he has not only survived, he has come out ahead of the game.

By the same token, Hillary came into the game having to face years of pent-up hatred from the RW, as a living symbol of everything despised by their ilk: from being the wife of the man who had the audacity to successfully challenge the inevitability of a George H.W. Bush presidency to being a woman who didn’t know her place – which, in GOP terms, lies somewhere between barefoot-and-pregnant and being seen but never, ever, under any circumstances, heard.

The inconvenient truth is that the GOP started preparing the onslaught of lies and innuendo to be aimed at Hillary years ago. They didn’t foresee (just as many Democrats did not foresee) that Barack Obama would come out of nowhere and become the front-runner.

No doubt they are busily working overtime to correct that oversight even as we speak. But to say that Hillary has been ‘completely vetted’, and there is nothing left for the Right to throw at her is, at best, naïve – and, at worst, delusional; almost as delusional as thinking that Obama is the darling of the MSM, and faces smooth sailing' from here on in.

But the real lesson to be learned here is that the Democrats have, for far too long, made their decision of who to run based solely on what nastiness the GOP might have up their sleeves, ready to unleash on some poor, unsuspecting candidate.

This was the point of my most recent post: if Christ himself was to try and run on the Democratic ticket, so-called cooler heads would prevail by declaring him too vulnerable to swiftboating to be a viable candidate.

I don’t pretend to be privy to the inner workings of the GOP. However, I would bet everything I own on the fact that while they consider who would be best to rally their base, and hopefully appeal to Independents and Undecideds, the Republican powers-that-be rarely waste their time considering what the Democrats will think of their choice, what the Liberals will come up with to undermine their candidate, what the other side will dig up that is unsavory, unpalatable – or out-and-out untrue.

Although I have never been a Hillary supporter in terms of the presidential candidacy race, I give her credit for many things – and for one thing above all. Knowing she is universally hated by Republicans, having been warned that they would say or do anything to stop her, having no doubt been advised that her chances of surviving the never-ending mud-slinging that she would meet upon announcing her candidacy were slim at best, she said, “Fuck it, boys, I’m going in.”

At the same time, Obama was surely warned, repeatedly so, that being a black man – and a young, fight-the-status-quo man at that – would be the end of a promising career that could have flourished if only he’d waited, if only he’d not been so anxious to rock the boat. Again, like Hillary, he said, “Fuck it, guys, I’m going in.”

By my count, that’s two candidates who are willing to take-on the mealy-mouthed-but-safe establishment; by my count, that’s two Democrats willing to not only step up to the plate, but more than willing and able to hit one out of the ballpark for all Americans.

Yesterday’s new is that Hillary’s campaign has been tombstoned by the remarks of Geraldine Ferraro. Today’s news is that Obama’s campaign is over due to remarks by his church’s pastor.

The truth is that neither of these things is equivalent to a yawn, no less certain death. Tomorrow’s headlines will bring bad tidings to one campaign or the other – and so the pattern will continue, for weeks, if not months, to come.

While the vitriol between the two “camps” – Obama supporters v Hillary supporters – rages on here and elsewhere, while those of us cocooned in our comfortable little website world might want to believe that our party is irretrievably divided, that cries of I will NEVER vote for that man/woman are actually reflective of the voters-at-large, the truth is that in the end, we Democrats will come together, we will unite, we will prevail.

May the best man or woman win – and if we, as individuals, have even half the chutzpah these two candidates have shown, the battle of (D) v (R) has already been won.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Once again, NanceGreggs speaks the truth.

Brava!

[DesertFlower]

2. well said. nt

[wellstone dem]

3. I wish I could write like you.

thanks for speaking the truth.

[ladym55]

4. We need more posts like this one

and fewer posts where we trash each other. Maybe we should focus our attention again on the issues that are before us and on the Republican candidate who is in love with war and permanent tax cuts.

[panader0]

5. The voice comes from a cool head

Thanks Nance.

[Me.]

6. Taking The Higher Road

Thanks

[Laurab]

7. Excellent. K&R n/t

[myrna minx]

8. Yet another fantastic post, Nance.

[Little Star]

9. k&r

[JohnnyLib2]

10. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Recommended, with a thumbs up to both of 'em.

[Champion Jack]

11. K&R Nice work

[merci_me]

12. What I tell my friends............

Neither of the remaining candidates were my first choice, or second or third or even fourth. Each time as my choice didn't run, ran and withdrew, and withdrew and withdrew, I adjusted. Now, I'm supporting Hillary, but if necessary, I can adjust again. BECAUSE we need a Democratic cabinet, Democratic presidential advisers, and a Democratic president nominating the next 8 years of Supreme Court nominees.

If you don't like our nominee and you live in a state (and I do) that has the ballot option of marking your ballot just once, for the straight Democratic ticket, take a deep breath and vote once, for the entire ticket, top to bottom. It's a good thing!

[cbayer]

13. Wow.

[Johnny__Motown]

14. I agree, both of these stories will be old news in a week, two at the most, and we have 6 before PA

[Muttocracy]

16. yeah, I bet most of us couldn't remember what the hot topic

of the week was for each week so far. And most Americans are not paying as much attention as we are!

[Johnny__Motown]

20. I still don't think that a pastor's comments are as bad as Hillary's McCain "endorsement"

and that is already old news. (until the Repugs bring it back in he fall that is)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsYWiywdCA&feature=rela...


just a reminder, I still am pissed about it.

[Muttocracy]

21. I wasn't considering that one a scandal of the week, I agree it's much bigger than that nt

[verges]

26. Johnny Motown

I agree completely. If the MI/FL debacle hadn't already turned me away from Clinton, that certainly would have done the trick. I too, am still pissed about it!

[George II]

75. ...drifting off track now, the post was about UNITY, not whose comments are worse..

[NickMorgan]

15. Three Cheers for Democratic Unity!!

Very well written.

[Olney Blue]

17. Excellent, Nance. Thanks.

[TheDoorbellRang]

18. Thanks for the fresh air!

Whenever we're in danger of drowning in our own GD-P morass of mudslinging, you post something that reminds us to swim back to the surface and gulp down some oxygen. Brain cells everywhere thank you!

[hisownpetard]

19. K&R. Thanks for this important post.

[varelse]

22. Thank you

Especially for bringing this point up

But the real lesson to be learned here is that the Democrats have, for far too long, made their decision of who to run based solely on what nastiness the GOP might have up their sleeves, ready to unleash on some poor, unsuspecting candidate.

I'd add that Dems have played too "nice" for too long and it's past time for them to play rough - against the candidates from the opposing party, not their own.

[mrbluto]

23. Counting problem.

By my count, that’s two candidates who are willing to take-on the mealy-mouthed-but-safe establishment;

If by "take on" you mean hire and appoint to their administration then I agree.

If you mean "oppose effectively" then I think you're going to get a lesson in number theory.

If neither of these folk are calling for Bush's impeachment then I really have to wonder where their hearts are.

Are they just playing along until they get their chance to change the system from the inside? Perhaps, but I wouldn't bet on it.

NanceGreggs - do you really think either of these candidates are anything other than mild centrists who will wind up being the fall guy for Republican excess? Unless something radical happens from the outside then either of these two are going to be merely a temporary and mild relief from BushCo before the Repubs install their next american quisling.

Hillary or Obama?

Neither.

Neither is what I suggest.

Let's have a REAL convention and allow the delegates hash it out and pick somebody better.

[NanceGreggs]

27. "Let's have a REAL convention and allow the delegates ...

... to hash it out and pick somebody better."

The American voters have spoken, and continue to speak.

Have you considered that if you think there's somebody better, you could be WRONG, and millions of Americans could be right?

[mrbluto]

43. Considered

Have I considered I could be wrong?

Heh.

I do so as a matter of mental hygiene.

I'm the one handing you a bar of mental soap on occasion.

I think your assumption that I hadn't consider the possibility of being in error more telling about you than about me.

Is that what often happens to you? Is that your experience? You find out that you hadn't considered the possibility that you are in error?

Nevermind - I don't expect an answer Nance.

I'll point out what was the essential underlying question in my post for you and your readers:

What is so magical about votes, or millions of Americans voting a particular way?

I'll tell you: consent.

It's all about consent - not the actual considered will of the citizens - consent.

The primary system, the electoral system, and the medium in which dialog occurs in this country are so damaged and twisted that it hasn't reflected the considered opinion of it's citizens in quite some time. From gerrymandering to hanging chads it's been decades. If I take the temperatures of millions of people with a busted thermometer can I arrive at any diagnosis? No.

The electoral system is a busted thermometer.

So why does it persist? Functionless things tend to fade away. If it persists then what's it's function?

The manufacture of consent.

Not to get all Chomsky on yer ass, but that's the remaining function.

People often say "If you didn't vote then you have no right to complain about who gets elected."

It's the exact opposite. At some level voting indicates that you accept the way you get "governed". It indicates consent. Once you give consent at some level you give permission and accept responsibility for everything this government does. It's not for nothing that even repressive regimes have elections. Your vote is a permission slip, a waiver of responsibility for those weilding government power.

The system that accepts and packages those votes and then labels it "The will of the people" is doing one main thing:

Manufacturing consent.

The American electoral system manufactures consent - and little else.

Get ready to ignore this Nance: I think you're part of that process here on the web.



Remember to ignore, misconstrue, & dodge when you answer, you know: SOP, standard operating procedure.

[NanceGreggs]

47. The only "process" I am part of on the web ...

... is posting my opinion, my view of things, my musings - the same as millions of people who do so, here and elsewhere, every day.

I am not an elected official, nor am I an official spokesperson for anyone or any thing.

In short, I post as I deem fit, and people are free to read it or not, comment on it or not, debate it or agree with it as is their wont.

In other words, I don't OWE you, or anyone else, a response or an explanation. Therefore, "dodging" a question I have no obligation to answer in the first instance doesn't come into play.

I've said what I've said in my OP, and you can take it or leave it. It's of no consequence to me, one way or the other.

[mrbluto]

57. Of no consequence....again a dodge.

You know what's depressing - you volunteer to assist in the manufacture of consent. You don't even get paid.

And again you dodge the real substance.

I must remember in the future to have only one point per post so you don't cherry pick.

Alas I have little time to await your response, I have homework due tomorrow.

[NanceGreggs]

60. Mmm hmm, yeah, okay ...

... why don't you go do your homework?

[mrbluto]

88. How telling.

Just like some jockish bully in junior highschool you're taking a jab at me for going off to my homework?

Did you watch any of those eighties John Hughes teen movies? Nance, it's not intended that you identify with the jerks.

Man, it's people like you that made it so Ducky didn't get the girl in Pretty in Pink!

(He did in the original book)

[mrbluto]

24. Ditto-heads

Nance - you got 'em.

Dittoheads.

Doesn't it disturb you that the first 7-10 people to respond to your post are so....I'm not sure how to phrase it.

But it's like I'm at an Ed McMahon impersonator's convention. (Like when Hartman used to parody him: "Yes sir, you are correct sir")

It's a little Colbert-ish ("Nance - is she good? OR GREAT?")

It'd worry me.

They say this stuff even while you suggest that most of the people on this forum (including them? or except for them?) are disconnected from reality:

...those of us cocooned in our comfortable little website world might want to believe that our party is irretrievably divided...

Maybe if we combine the two I'll agree: They think you're the best thing since sliced bread AND they're disconnected from reality. (right along with you)

OK - I'm willing to go with that. It all makes sense now.

[NanceGreggs]

28. No, it doesn't disturb me in the least ...

... that millions of American voters are behind Obama and/or Hillary - most of whom will undoubtedly get behind either one when all is said and done.

Apparently the "dittoheads" are those who keep insisting that neither candidate is worth voting for - and fortunatley for all of us, they are in the vast minority.

[mrbluto]

41. Another dodge.

I wasn't suggesting that those who support Clinton or Obama have dittoheads in my post - I was pointing out that you do.

Then I asked you what your stance on that was.

Then you chose to answer some other question. One I didn't pose. How convenient.

Very Donna Perino-ish of you.

i.e.: a dodge.

Keep it up and, though you'll never publicly admit it, you'll know you have no right to complain when government officials dodge the questions put to them.

Perhaps you're warming up for a position as professional obfuscater Whitehouse press secretary.

----

Oh. and regarding "vast minorities": At one point it was only a "vast minority" that had an unfavorable opinion of Bush Jr. or openly opposed the Iraq war - or thought the earth orbited the sun.

Is whether or not an opinion is in the minority how you wish to judge these things?

Never mind - of course you'll never answer that, or any other substantive question.

When you assume you're dealing with a "vast minority" it seems only real reason you find it fortunate is that it's easy to ignore and evade a minority rather than consider the issues.

I expect you to let this drop here and console yourself with your "popularity".

Face it - you probably relish the fact that you have dittoheads.

cya

[NanceGreggs]

42. I answered the question I thought you'd posed ...

As for responding to THIS post, I would - if I had any idea what it is you're talking about. Which I don't.

[mrbluto]

44. I have no doubt.

That you answered the question you interpreted.

And yet again you slip past without offering any substantive response.

[NanceGreggs]

45. As I thought I'd clearly stated ...

... I don't understand what question you're asking - or even if you're asking one at all.

[mrbluto]

46. Does it disturb you that you have dittoheads?

Much like Rush Limbaugh.

Your platform may be entirely different or opposed to Rush's, but there forms and tone are nearly identical.

You ask me if I ever considered that I may be wrong about my opinions.

I do.

And one of the signs is when everyone starts agreeing with me.

Especially if they do so in a sycophantic mode.

[NanceGreggs]

50. Are you saying that any group pf people ...

... who agree with a certain opinion or view are "dittoheads"? I'm still trying to understand exactly what it is you're getting at.

[helderheid]

53. I believe that's what he's saying. Apparently it should disturb you that people agree with you much

of the time.

[NanceGreggs]

54. Thanks, "dittohead"!

I think we should all go out of our way to NOT agree on anything from here on out. That way, nobody can be called a "dittohead", ever.

[helderheid]

56. Works for me! I mean, no it doesn't!!!

[NanceGreggs]

58. I concur! No, I don't!

[helderheid]

61. I don't know what to say!! ACK! Read my sig line!

[NanceGreggs]

62. Priceless!!!!!

Now STOP agreeing with me - or with ANYONE ELSE!

[helderheid]

63. I will if I want to! Or not! Emm.. OUCH my brain hurts!!!!

[NanceGreggs]

64. My brain is hurting, too!

Must be all of that "consent manufacturing" I've been doing here on the internetz. Who knew that posting on DU gave me such unfettered power!!!

(Oh, and sorry for agreeing with you. I'm gonna try to watch that from now on!)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

73. K & R. Your OP is brilliant, a shining light.

And, your shining light continues its brilliance in your exchange with this poster.

[jettison]

78. mr. bluto

The OP creates a topic about taking the highroad and unity, and you proceed to attempt to smash it all to bits. Basically, you continue status quo, just like the majority of the board, just looking for someone/something to criticize. Anyone can be a critic. How about you post something that others could actually accept and get behind?

I'm sure that this irony is lost on you. Either way, I know that you won't be answering because, like a good boy, you're doing your homework.

[mrbluto]

86. Actually, being a true critic is rare.

And we could use more.

We don't have problems because we have debates - we have debates because we have problems.

Or at least that's the way it should be in the Democratic Party.

Seeing so many slavishly complementary posts reminds me too much of a cult of personality.

When I sense a cult of personality I reach for my pen. (which I'm told is mightier than the sword)

If more people had done that over the past nine years we would have been a whole lot better off.

I regret not doing it more often.

p.s.: You're actually taking a jab at me because I had to go and write a paper? Do you listen to yourself? You sound just like a jockish bully in some schoolyard. How's that for irony?

[Me.]

30. Pish

Tosh

[George II]

76. Sometimes I think it's good to be disconnected from reality about certain things.

[psychmommy]

25. thanks nance for being the grown up.

i know it is hard but, thanks for being a voice of reason and solidarity.

[sorrybushisfromtexas]

29. Great Post

levelheaded, truthful, no flaming,

Whoever wins the nomination, we will have to get behind.

Stop standing in circles, and shooting inward.

It hurts.

[bigbrother05]

31. Thanks again

[Scurrilous]

32. Kick

[intaglio]

33. Again an excellent OP, Nance!

I just hope that Dean, Gore and others are getting their people to search for dirt on McCain that the eventual nominee can use

[bklyncowgirl]

34. Nance, I keep warning you, this is GDP you're not allowed to make sense.

Seriously, lady, you should take a time out. This is the slime and vitriol section.

[K Gardner]

35. "Fuck it, guys, I'm going in!" LOL, Nance. I can almost hear him saying that. K&R

[Political Heretic]

36. One thing I can say that has nothing to do with being an Obama supporter:

I am sick to death of people cower in front of the GOP and demand that we let them dictate our candidates, rather than WINNING by the strength, vision, and persuasiveness of our message.

Let's not try to be more wrong because powerful people have been wrong for a long time and have convinced a lot of Americans to be wrong too. Let's be right, and not be scared into cowardice, and get Americans back on track again.

Let's CHOOSE whoever we choose because we're CONVINCED they are the best choice for the country in 2008 and nothing else.

[Patsy Stone]

37. What I've discovered:

When one leaves the house and steps away from the computer, it's great to be a Democrat.

Here's to our two great candidates! Either one of whom will move this country forward and work to right the wrongs of the power hungry loonies currently holding America hostage for personal gains.

[11 Bravo]

38. In 6 years at DU I have never bookmarked a post. Until now.

K&R

[acmavm]

39. Very nice, very fair. Well done. (Too damn bad I can't stand either one of

'em. I'd be even more congratulatory on the rational tone of this thread.)

[question everything]

40. Teflon Obama, like his idol - Ronald Reagan

When people are awe struck, nothing can change their mind. They even drink kool-aid because this is what their object of adulation tells them.

I don't know how many people here remember the Reagan years. We have here young people who can only complain about the years of Clinton, the years of fresh air of economic expansion for everyone, of moving from huge deficit to surplus. There are young women here who cannot even imagine that as recently as the early 70s, they could not establish credit under their own name, or purchase a home without a man co-signing.

And there are people here who have never watched frustrated reporters commented how nothing that they reported about Reagan's mishandling could get the voters' attention.

[KaptBunnyPants]

48. Will Christ protect your children?

I heard he once let a guy hit him in the face and just turned his cheek. How can this wimp protect us from AL QUEDA??!!?

[NanceGreggs]

52. And don't you just know ...

... that's exactly the kind of TV ad we'd be inundated with if Christ actually ran for the presidency as a Dem?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

49. I love your writing.

Thoughtful, rhythmic and concise. Great stuff!

[helderheid]

51. You. Are. The. Best.

[blues90]

55. you have a lot more faith in the american people than I

Do you actually think that this wedge that has been driven so deep will let up as the next several months go by ? It gets driven deeper by the day as the media plays with peoples minds endlessly .

This country needs a blood transfusion .

[JerseygirlCT]

59. YES. To a very large extent all of this *stuff* is only as important

as we allow it to be.

That's the part we just don't seem to get, time after time.

We've got the numbers. We've got the ideas.

They've got us, by the throat. Because we keep allowing it! We need to just stop. Stop playing their games, stop allowing the fight to happen on their chosen turf. Stop playing nicey-nice when they attack. Stop ceding things like fiscal responsibility and justice to these clowns who really have shown beyond the vaguest shadow of any doubt that they have nothing to do with either idea.

I also completely agree with you that the right wing has been planning on Clinton as their opponent for years and years now. We've been watching that played out - if anyone has been paying attention, it's very clear. The pundits, the GOP operatives, the GOP politicians - they think they're all ready for Hillary, and they're really not at all happy that all that work might be for naught. But they move fast, especially their dirty tricks teams, so never fear, they'll find things to throw at Obama anyway.

Great post - thanks!

[IndependentDem]

65. K&R-- well said truthful post, thank you for something nice to read for a change

i just hope that you are right about all dems uniting behind the nominee whoever it ends up being. neither of them are perfect, but they are both amazing people that are much better than the republican alternative. thanks again for some GD.P goodness!

[Umbram]

66. Kick. nt.

[List left]

67. Well said

Even handedness should never offend!

[Apollo11]

68. Proud to recommend (#60)

[greyghost]

69. Call me a Ditto-head, but worth a bookmark to me.

[Utopian Leftist]

70. Americans

The American public is not as stupid as the media makes it out to be. The thinking segment of the population will not be cowed into rejecting Obama based on the words of his pastor just as they will not discount Clinton based on the stance of Ferraro. Both candidates have overcome harsher criticism.

Another excellent post.

[mckara]

71. Oh, Please...

Hillary was the one who came to this campaign without adequate preparation, and that was why she lost the nomination! If the Clinton campaign was so much smarter than Obama's campaign, then they might actually be ahead in delegates, popular vote, something?

Oh yes, Clinton did display more arrogance than Obama, and proved that she was out of touch with the American electorate.
Let's face it, if Clinton cannot persuade a majority of democrats that she deserves the nomination, she sure as hell cannot expect the electorate as a whole to select her as president.

While we are at it, who the hell are you to say that "Obama doesn’t know what he’s up against when it comes to the inevitable Republican propaganda catapult being hauled out, readied for battle, and aimed in his direction"?

Obama proved that he had a plan to win the nomination and he will be ready for the republicans as soon as Clinton concedes that she was BEATEN in the trenches by Obama, and thereby LOST the nomination. Obama does not need YOU or other Clinton supporters to tell him how to win elections. If you knew anything about elections, Clinton would have won!

Time for you, and Clinton, to step to the rear and let the WINNERS lead the way!

[Utopian Leftist]

79. Clinton Supporter?

Who are you calling a Clinton supporter? Because I didn't get that at all from the OP.

[NanceGreggs]

80. Hmmmm ...

Quote from my OP: "There have been endless posts about how Obama doesn’t know what he’s up against when it comes to the inevitable Republican propaganda catapult being hauled out, readied for battle, and aimed in his direction. The truth is that every time he’s been hit, he has not only survived, he has come out ahead of the game."

Always a good idea to actually READ an OP before commenting on it.

[mckara]

83. Yes, You're Right!

I should have finished the article!
Tamen,I stand by my remarks, because we can no longer consider Clinton a legitimate candidate. There is no way for Clinton to garnish the votes necessary for nomination. None of us should dignify her candidacy any longer. At this point, Clinton is only in the race to stroke her ego! Similar to Mike Huckleberry!
As for you, I apologize for calling you a Clinton supporter. I hadn't realized that was an insult, and it did misrepresent your position in the article! Instead, please accept my hugs and kisses!!!!!

[NanceGreggs]

85. Thanks, mckara ...

... and no need to embarrassed - I've often mis-read or misinterpreted other posters here.

But please let's understand each other. I do not consider being called a "Hillary supporter" an insult - simply a misrepresentation of my support for Obama.

[mrbluto]

87. You've misunderstood the subtext.

From what I can tell Nance supports Obama and just wishes there wasn't all this "delay" with the voting and campaigning and what not.

That, or she wishes all this messy process stuff was over already.

[NM Independent]

72. I would agree with you completely

and tell you that you kick ass, but I'm afwaid I'll be called a dittohead, so I won't. Sorry.

Wait, I already did. Eh, screw it.

[ekwhite]

81. Ditto NT

[George II]

74. (in Hopes That it Doesn’t Offend) With all of your posts, I don't think you've EVER offended anyone.

Regardless of the side of an issue anyone is on here, you have always put things in their proper perspective.

[MasonJar]

77. Thank you, Nance/ keep these reminders front and center. I stopped

visiting GDP and so I am no longer upset by the division which is so prevalent there. However, I hope that we dems have a long enough memory to come together to stop the GOPer continuation of atrocities and crimes and lies and wars and destructions and all the etcs. We must come together or there is no chance for our country which is trying to take the whole world down with it through PUG policies. Here is to the candidate the dems choose. I back you, whoever you are!!!!!!!!!

[Kurovski]

82. K&R. (nt)

[Kat45]

84. Kick