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Harry Reid belonged to a church that didn't allow blacks full membership, is he unfit to lead?

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:21 PM
Original message
Harry Reid belonged to a church that didn't allow blacks full membership, is he unfit to lead?
Keep it up folks. I'll take YOUR hero and make them into a villain. Harry Reid is just an example. I do not think he is unfit for office because of this.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, he is. Mostly because Harry Reid is a spineless nitwit - but his church doesn't help his case.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Mo Udall too?
:shrug:

how about Jim Matheson D-UT member of the House of Representatives?
how about Tom Udall D-NM also member of House of Representatives?

what about all the people who belong to churches that supported slavery years ago?
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. What about people who TODAY choose which church to attend based on CURRENT
teachings and the sermons delivered each Sunday?
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. okay, how many objectionable sermons did Rev. Otis Moss give?
I mean that's Obama's current pastor.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That would only work to Obama's benefit if he switched churches &
Wright was not a part of his campaign.... Obama clearly endorsed Mr. Wright's views.

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
41. Go jump in a lake
:rofl:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. again, current pastor is Otis Moss, what does he teach?
do tell.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Obama sat through 17 years of Mr. Wright and calls him his "moral compass"
I am sure that his current pastor is equally as racist.... won't be long until the tapes surface.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. prove it
you know nothing.

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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
44. You're look really silly right about now......
Obama chose Wright to be his personal mentor for 20 years.

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Was Wright considered a racist for these 20 years?
Newsweek and the Chicago Tribune both have said that after looking into Trinity United Church of Christ that the church is not racist and not anti-white.

YOU saw some video clips lasting probably not much over a minute in aggregate and have made a conclusion about 20 years.

Now who is being silly? :spank:
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. and you have proof he didn't preach these kinds of sermons
15 years ago? How about 10 years ago? Whose looking silly now? You assume a lot.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. You must assume UFO's exist
because there is no proof that they don't. :eyes:
----------------------------------------------------

Negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:

* "X is true because there is no proof that X is false."

It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:

* "A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".

(source: wikipedia "negative proof/logical fallacy)
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I would think you could find some of his older sermons....
give it your best shot.

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. here's one of his older sermons
The full text of Jeremiah Wright's "Audacity To Hope" sermon in 1990:

Several years ago while I was in Richmond, the Lord allowed me to be in that city during the week of the annual convocation at Virginia Union University School of Theology. There I heard the preaching and teaching of Reverend Frederick G. Sampson of Detroit, Michigan. In one of his lectures, Dr. Sampson spoke of a painting I remembered studying in humanities courses back in the late '50s. In Dr. Sampson's powerful description of the picture, he spoke of it being a study in contradictions, because the title and the details on the canvas seem to be in direct opposition.

The painting's title is "Hope." It shows a woman sitting on top of the world, playing a harp. What more enviable position could one ever hope to achieve than being on top of the world with everyone dancing to your music?

As you look closer, the illusion of power gives way to the reality of pain. The world on which this woman sits, our world, is torn by war, destroyed by hate, decimated by despair, and devastated by distrust. The world on which she sits seems on the brink of destruction. Famine ravages millions of inhabitants in one hemisphere, while feasting and gluttony are enjoyed by inhabitants of another hemisphere. This world is a ticking time bomb, with apartheid in one hemisphere and apathy in the other. Scientists tell us there are enough nuclear warheads to wipe out all forms of life except cockroaches. That is the world on which the woman sits in Watt's painting.

Our world cares more about bombs for the enemy than about bread for the hungry. This world is still more concerned about the color of skin than it is about the content of charactera world more finicky about what's on the outside of your head than about the quality of your education or what's inside your head. That is the world on which this woman sits.

You and I think of being on top of the world as being in heaven. When you look at the woman in Watt's painting, you discover this woman is in hell. She is wearing rags. Her Georgefredericwattshope tattered clothes look as if the woman herself has come through Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Her head is bandaged, and blood seeps through the bandages. Scars and cuts are visible on her face, her arms, and her legs.

I. Illusion of Power vs. Reality of Pain

A closer look reveals all the harp strings but one are broken or ripped out. Even the instrument has been damaged by what she has been through, and she is the classic example of quiet despair. Yet the artist dares to entitle the painting Hope. The illusion of powersitting on top of the worldgives way to the reality of pain.

And isn't it that way with many of us? We give the illusion of being in an enviable position on top of the world. Look closer, and our lives reveal the reality of pain too deep for the tongue to tell. For the woman in the painting, what looks like being in heaven is actually an existence in a quiet hell.

I've been a pastor for seventeen years. I've seen too many of these cases not to know what I'm talking about. I've seen married couples where the husband has a girlfriend in addition to his wife. It's something nobody talks about. The wife smiles and pretends not to hear the whispers and the gossip. She has the legal papers but knows he would rather try to buy Fort Knox than divorce her. That's a living hell.

I've seen married couples where the wife had discovered that somebody else cares for her as a person and not just as cook, maid jitney service, and call girl all wrapped into one. But there's the scandal: What would folks say? What about the children? That's a living hell.

I've seen divorcees whose dreams have been blown to bits, families broken up beyond repair, and lives somehow slipping through their fingers. They've lost control. That's a living hell.

I've seen college students who give the illusion of being on top of the worlddesigner clothes, all the sex that they want, all the cocaine or marijuana or drugs, all the trappings of having it all together on the outsidebut empty and shallow and hurting and lonely and afraid on the inside. Many times what looks good on the outsidethe illusion of being in power, of sitting on top of the worldwith a closer look is actually existence in a quiet hell.

That is exactly where Hannah is in 1 Samuel 1 :1-18. Hannah is top dog in this three-way relationship between herself, Elkanah, and Peninnah. Her husband loves Hannah more than he loves his other wife and their children. Elkanah tells Hannah he loves her. A lot of husbands don't do that. He shows Hannah that he loves her, and many husbands never get around to doing that. In fact, it is his attention and devotion to Hannah that causes Peninnah to be so angry and to stay on Hannah's case constantly. Jealous! Jealousy will get hold of you, and you can't let it go because it won't let you go. Peninnah stayed on Hannah, like we say, "as white on rice." She constantly picked at Hannah, making her cry, taking her appetite away.

At first glance Hannah's position seems enviable. She had all the rights and none of the responsibilitiesno diapers to change, no beds to sit beside at night, no noses to wipe, nothing else to wipe either, no babies draining you of your milk and demanding feeding. Hannah was top dog. No baby portions to fix at meal times. Her man loved her; everybody knew he loved her. He loved her more than anything or anybody. That's why Peninnah hated her so much.

Now, except for the second-wife bit, which was legal back then, Hannah was sitting on top of the world, until you look closer. When you look closer, what looked like being in heaven was actually existing in a quiet hell.

Hannah had the pain of a bitter woman to contend with, for verse 7 says that nonstop, Peninnah stayed with her. Hannah suffered the pain of living with a bitter woman. And she suffered another painthe pain of a barren womb. You will remember the story of the widow in 2 Kings 4 who had no child. The story of a woman with no children was a story of deep pathos and despair in biblical days.

Do you remember the story of Sarah and what she did in Genesis 16 because of her barren wombbefore the three heavenly visitors stopped by their tent? Do you remember the story of Elizabeth and her husband in Luke I? Back in Bible days, the story of a woman with a barren womb was a story of deep pathos. And Hannah was afflicted with the pain of a bitter woman on the one hand and the pain of a barren womb on the other.

Hannah's world was flawed, flaky. Her garments of respectability were tattered and torn, and her heart was bruised and bleeding from the constant attacks of a jealous woman. The scars and scratches on her psyche are almost visible as you look at this passage, where she cries, refusing to eat anything. Just like the woman in Watt's painting, what looks like being in heaven is actually existence in a quiet hell.

Now I want to share briefly with you about Hannahthe lady and the Lord. While I do so, I want you to be thinking about where you live and your own particular pain predicament. Think about it for a moment.

Dr. Sampson said he wanted to quarrel with the artist for having the gall to name that painting Hope when all he could see in the picture was hella quiet desperation. But then Dr. Sampson said he noticed that he had been looking only at the horizontal dimensions and relationships and how this woman was hooked up with that world on which she sat. He had failed to take into account her vertical relationships. He had not looked above her head. And when he looked over her head, he found some small notes of music moving joyfully and playfully toward heaven.
II. The Audacity to Hope

Then, Dr. Sampson began to understand why the artist titled the painting "Hope." In spite of being in a world torn by war, in spite of being on a world destroyed by hate and decimated by distrust, in spite of being on a world where famine and greed are uneasy bed partners, in spite of being on a world where apartheid and apathy feed the fires of racism and hatred, in spite of being on a world where nuclear nightmare draws closer with each second, in spite of being on a ticking time bomb, with her clothes in rags, her body scarred and bruised and bleeding, her harp all but destroyed and with only one string left, she had the audacity to make music and praise God. The vertical dimension balanced out what was going on in the horizontal dimension.

And that is what the audacity to hope will do for you. The apostle Paul said the same thing. "You have troubles? Glory in your trouble. We glory in tribulation." That's the horizontal dimension. We glory in tribulation because, he says, "Tribulation works patience. And patience works experience. And experience works hope. (That's the vertical dimension.) And hope makes us not ashamed." The vertical dimension balances out what is going on in the horizontal dimension. That is the real story here in the first chapter of 1 Samuel. Not the condition of Hannah's body, but the condition of Hannah's soulher vertical dimension. She had the audacity to keep on hoping and praying when there was no visible sign on the horizontal level that what she was praying for, hoping for, and waiting for would ever be answered in the affirmative.

What Hannah wanted most out of life had been denied to her. Think about that. Yet in spite of that, she kept on hoping. The gloating of Peninnah did not make her bitter. She kept on hoping. When the family made its pilgrimage to the sanctuary at Shiloh, she renewed her petition there, pouring out her heart to God. She may have been barren, but that's a horizontal dimension. She was fertile in her spirit, her vertical dimension. She prayed and she prayed and she prayed and she kept on praying year after year. With no answer, she kept on praying. She prayed so fervently in this passage that Eli thought she had to be drunk. There was no visible sign on the horizontal level to indicate to Hannah that her praying would ever be answered. Yet, she kept on praying.

And Paul said something about that, too. No visible sign? He says, "Hope is what saves us, for we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope. For what a man sees, why does he have hope for it? But if we hope for that which we see not (no visible sign), then do we with patience wait for it."

That's almost an echo of what the prophet Isaiah said: "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength." The vertical dimension balances out what is going on in the horizontal dimension.

There may not be any visible sign of a change in your individual situation, whatever your private hell is. But that's just the horizontal level. Keep the vertical level intact, like Hannah. You may, like the African slaves, be able to sing, "Over my head I hear music in the air. Over my head I hear music in the air. Over my head I hear music in the air. There must be a God somewhere."

Keep the vertical dimension intact like Hannah. Have the audacity to hope for that child of yours. Have the audacity to hope for that home of yours. Have the audacity to hope for that church of yours. Whatever it is you've been praying for, keep on praying, and you may find, like my grandmother sings, "There's a bright side somewhere; there is a bright side somewhere. Don't you rest until you find it, for there is a bright side somewhere."
III. Persistence of Hope

The real lesson Hannah gives us from this chapterthe most important word God would have us hearis how to hope when the love of God is not plainly evident. It's easy to hope when there are evidences all around of how good God is. But to have the audacity to hope when that love is not evidentyou don't know where that somewhere is that my grandmother sang about, or if there will ever be that brighter daythat is a true test of a Hannah-type faith. To take the one string you have left and to have the audacity to hopemake music and praise God on and with whatever it is you've got left, even though you can't see what God is going to dothat's the real word God will have us hear from this passage and from Watt's painting.

There's a true-life illustration that demonstrates the principles portrayed so powerfully in this periscope. And I close with it. My mom and my dad used to sing a song that I've not been able to find in any of the published hymnals. It's an old song out of the black religious tradition called "Thank you, Jesus." It's a very simple song. Some of you have heard it. It's simply goes, "Thank you Jesus. I thank you Jesus. I thank you Jesus. I thank you Lord." To me they always sang that song at the strangest timeswhen the money got low, or when the food was running out. When I was getting in trouble, they would start singing that song. And I never understood it, because as a child it seemed to me they were thanking God that we didn't have any money, or thanking God that we had no food, or thanking God that I was making a fool out of myself as a kid.
Conclusion: Hope is What Saves Us

But I was only looking at the horizontal level. I did not understand nor could I see back then the vertical hookup that my mother and my father had. I did not know then that they were thanking him in advance for all they dared to hope he would do one day to their son, in their son, and through their son. That's why they prayed. That's why they hoped. That's why they kept on praying with no visible sign on the horizon. And I thank God I had praying parents, because now some thirty-five years later, when I look at what God has done in my life, I understand clearly why Hannah had the audacity to hope. Why my parents had the audacity to hope.

And that's why I say to you, hope is what saves us. Keep on hoping; keep on praying. God does hear and answer prayer.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. No he is not
But not because he is a Mormon, but because he is a pussy who rolls over for Bush every time.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. so fitness depends on who you are and what you do, not those you associate with?
i'm learning. :think:
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. That is the greatest post I've ever read...
from someone on my Ignore list.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. God hates Rush
:rofl:
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Hillary appeared on the 700 Club
That is - the very same 700 Club featuring Pat Robertson who claimed 911 was retribution by God for homosexuality and plenty of other intellectual gems. This was a very well known fact before Hillary decided to appear, yet she appeared anyway. Apparently, she didn't care much about being associated with someone with that sort of message.

This guilt be association crap that people are trying to pull is a very slippery slope.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #26
45. pat Robertson hasn't been her personal mentor for 20 years...n/t
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
51. Would it be possible to not use that particular word as an insult???
Because it's an insult to women to call a man that.

It's an insult to both sexes to call anybody that, actually.
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FARAFIELD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. YES,
he is NOT fit, he sucks in fact, worst DEM senate leader ever, eck
I still dont know why Hillary didnt take him on, she could have had the job
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. but is he unfit because of his church membership?
that's my question.
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FARAFIELD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. because he is a mormon?
No, but talk about something that wont hold up. Romney was the worst nominee the republican had because a lot of bible belters think the mormons are a cult.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. yeah, i had a problem with that too
Romney was a bad candidate, but not because he was Mormon. :banghead:
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Try Mine:
George Washington
(alternately, Abraham Lincoln?)
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Lincoln was never a regular church goer
so I don't think that applies in his case. Neither were most of the founding fathers for that matter.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. You BET! Harry is CAVING every chance he gets...but then there's
"CASINO's" in Las Vegas... he does have his OWN Constituents to answer to. They are the ones who gave him his Seat...and his VAULTED POSTION in the US SENATE!

Harry didn't just roll out from under the "Turnip Truck!" :rofl: "Harry the Boxer"...he always knew how to "throw a fight."
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:39 PM
Original message
Is Harry Reid someone's hero? Good luck with that.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. It honestly depends
Was he a member back when it was excluding blacks? Did he work to change that policy? Without answers to those questions I can't answer yours.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. yes he was since graduating from college
full membership was not available to males until 1978, almost two decades later.

again, the question is, does his church membership make him unfit for office?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. If he made no effort to change it
then, I would have difficulty voting for him. I have Mormon relatives but they joined very shortly before the Mormon's changed.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:54 PM
Original message
how do you "change" it? in case you didn't notice, it's not a Democracy.
:eyes:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. actually, it is
at least on the local level. Mormon churches don't have pastors but allow males to take turns at being the pastor. Did Reid use his turn to advocate for a change in the racial policy? The Mormon equivalent of a Bishop (the Presdient of a stake) is voted on at biannual meetings where any Mormon in good standing can vote. Did Reid refuse to vote for racists for stake President?
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. you mean vote for someone publicly stating the Church was wrong on this issue?
You're saying it works like that... :eyes:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. the change had to come from somewhere
In most Protestant faiths these policies are debated at conventions, I admit to not knowing the extent to which stakes debate issues.
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Not the Only One Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. I have way more problems with the Mormons than with Rev. Wright, that's for sure.
I'm not that old and the Mormons were officially racist as recently as after I was born-- so it's not ancient history to me.

Christopher Hitchens: Mitt Romney needs to answer questions about his Mormon faith. Why Romney needs to talk about his faith.

This country is selectively prejudiced regarding religion. The media will go after Wright, but they will give others a free pass.
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:44 PM
Original message
He is unfit to lead but not for that reason.
It's because he is a failure as a leader.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. no offense to harry reid,
but i think the mormon belief was that blacks could only get to heaven as slaves. i know that's changed, but still it was the original belief.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. i think it was wrong too, but does membership in that church make one unfit to lead?
:shrug:
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. not in my opinion.
i don't care if the person practices voodoo -- which is BTW a religion.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. i don't either
:hi:
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. like i said not in my opinion. nt
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Uhm, "get to heaven as slaves", "original belief"? wrong. wrong. wrong.
*Shakes head.*

Original belief was that blacks were equals.
Brigham Young changed it, later so they could only get into Telestial and Terrestial Heaven, but as free men.
It was changed back to the original belief in 1978.

http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blackmormon/homepage.html
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. thanks for that info. nt
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes - Harry Reid is unfit to lead.
But not because of his religion.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. If true (in the present tense) ... absolutely unfit to lead. /nt
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
27. Another Obama supporter who rejects Obama's own words for unity.
It is a shame.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
28. My dad's a racist....
Does that make me a racist? Of course not. I deplore his views but I also love him and willingly associate with him and try to change his views.
These sermons are old. Does anyone know if Obama talked to him about the rhetoric since then? Its possible.
I don't believe in guilt by association UNLESS I heard a version of those views coming from Obama's mouth.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yep! Does he still belong?
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
36. there's a big difference too
I don't know the history of Mormonism, but did they have a legit reason to not allow blacks into the church, or was it just racism?

People may not like what Wright had to say, but do black people of his generation have a legitimate reason to think badly of some white people?

I think so.
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Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
38. yup for sure
but not for that reason, he is a gutless piece of dreck
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
39. Yeah, he's unfit. Mostly because he's worthless though.
When is the last time he actually won something important?
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
42. I think he's wrong for attending that church....
but was the pastor his PERSONAL mentor for 20 years?
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hifalutin Donating Member (370 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. 20 years,
that's what it all boils down to.

Obama sat and listened to this racist, bigoted bullcrap for 20 years. And no, it's not cherry picking from the sermons, in Chicago, Wright is famous for his rhetoric.
Michelle did not help matters with her 'proud to be an American' remarks either.
However, does this reflect their personal views?
One wonders just how much influence this bigotry has had (deep down inside) and not for public discourse.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
43. That doctrine changed about thirty years ago.
So this is a false analogy, one of the many posted on this subject in the past few days.

If only fallacious logic and sophomoric mockery could win elections....
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
49. Yes
Next question
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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
56. He's unfit to lead, but it has nothing to do with his church. n/t
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
57. My goodness...
If we didn't have any leaders that belonged to clubs etc., that at one time, or still do deny membership to certain people, half the Senate would be gone.
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