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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:37 PM
Original message
Rev. Wright is Right!

I asked some legitimate questionsabout Reverend Wright. It would seem that there is very little Wright has said that the majority of DU doesn't agree with. What he's apparently done wrong was use 'inflammatory' language.

Now, as has been made quite plain in these last few weeks, DU is really not a bastion of decorous speech. Has Wright used 'inappropriate' language? Well, not by DU's standards. Certainly by campaign standards Wright was out of line. He should not have crossed the line into promoting a political candidate. In that, he's joined the ranks of over-the-top pastors who've stumped for Republicans. The difference? Rarely have any of those pro-Republican preachers faced consequences for their outrageous rhetoric.

Oh, and heres another important difference; Wrights rhetoric is reality based.

The three pertinent questions that I asked were;

-"Does Jeremiah Wright have cause to speak with such anger?

-"Is there any point of substance that he is dead wrong on?"

-"When he said "God Damn America", was it because of her people or because of her actions?"


The answers to these questions reveal something fundamental not only about Rev. Wright, but about the stark inability of Americans to engage in introspection. Americans are far more inclined to respond to style rather than substance. Substance can be very uncomfortable, and Americans hate being uncomfortable.

Its comfortable, for instance, for an American to hear someone explain how our foreign policy is making us insecure and respond by saying, Youre blaming America!

To avoid facing simple yet uncomfortable truths, we will focus on sound-bytes, indulge in soothing rhetoric, and pick up on any offensive word or phrase that gives us an excuse to ignore a profound yet difficult message.

Through the magic of the media, we are managing to miss an enormous opportunity to break out of the superficial world of packaged opinions sold back to us as though they were our own. We are missing an opportunity to have a real conversation about American principles and history because we have been forcibly focused on the use of Bad Words and angry inflection. We are deliberately being led off the trail of substance which could otherwise have brought us to a state of introspection

But instead of talking about the substance of Wrights speech, we wind up talking about the style of it.

Substance, in this case, scares us as Americans. Whats truly disappointing though is that this is Democratic Underground where the issues Wright has spoken on are discussed daily. Sheesh!

We all know that Wright went over a political line, but hes said nothing that is substantively wrong at least not that Ive heard yet, and Ive been asking around.

Now we have a candidate who, as a close personal acquaintance of Wrights, we can assume is aware of the serious issues that America is facing that Wright has discussed.

Perhaps now is a good time to talk about how those issues relate to the candidate. Perhaps it is a good time to look at how Barack Obama views the substance of Wrights speech and not the style.

I dont think thats too much to expect of a board like DU.
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Madam Mossfern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. What about his claims about
the US developing AIDS to infect Black people?
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If you look hard enough..everyone has made problematic comments in their lives...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 06:45 PM by tokenlib
So he made a few gaffs...

This self-righteous, my country is right even when wrong crap that is fueling this symbolic "burning at the stake" is cynical beyond belief. A lot of what he is being attacked for are true statements--even if we don't like to hear them.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. What do you think of this? (I Googled.)
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. So he believes in a crack-pot conspiracy theory or two....
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 06:50 PM by tokenlib
...so do a lot of "respectable" people. This is overblown inflated garbage..to pick at this man and to do the guilt by association thing.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Wright isn't even mentioned in that article.
What's your point?
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. My point is that the idea is out there...
and it's not provably false. I recall an article along those lines from Rolling Stone in the early 90's, I believe. Conspiracy theories aren't necessarily wrong. It certainly doesn't make Rev. Wright a racist to believe such a thing.

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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Oh, I agree.
It doesn't make someone a conspiracy nut to say "I don't know". Wright may believe it, but I don't consider that a substantive or approachable issue.

His opinions on how black people have been treated, and how America has been abused by our 'white' leaders are verifiably well-founded and very meaningful to our future. We need to get these issues dealt with or suffer the consequences of ignoring the infection.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Here is the problem...
If the government didn't participate in study's like the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment maybe blacks would not be so untrusting of the government.

http://www.tuskegee.edu/Global/Story.asp?s=1207586

Or the Killing of American Indians by Small Pox
http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/amherst/lord_jeff....


Then maybe minorities in this country wouldn't believe that it's possible for the American Government to poisen it's citizens. Just Sayin...

It's completely possible...
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
61. What about the majority of Americans who believe Jesus exists?
That's a far more dangerous lunacy, yet I don't see people worried about THAT myth.

Selective outrage is hypocritical.

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Madam Mossfern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. That statement is just out of line
and I'm not Christian.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #61
63. There is no independent confirmation of Jesus' life outside the Bible.
No independent records. No records that are contemporaneous with his life.

They could have taken all the characteristics of Mithra or Apollo and changed the name. We don't know.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree - people are in denial and don't want to see how right Wright is...
Just posted this on another thread:

As an Obama supporter, here's what I hoped he'd say...

"Like most people, sometimes I agree with my minister, sometimes I don't - and it's pretty obvious that we have different speaking styles. If you want to know what I think about a specific statement Rev. Wright made, please ask."


imo it was a mistake to denounce without saying which specific statements he meant ~ it's no surprise that some black ministers are offended. Much of the problem is one of style, not content.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'm not in denial...
and I do see how right he is. And yes, I'm an Obamite.
:)
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Glad to know it! :)
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. yes, he is. That doesn't matter to some people who refuse to
face the facts though.

I appreciate that Obama didn't side-step the issue. And he didn't let a long time go by before addressing it. He also didn't try and deflect the criticizm off onto the opposing candidate.

He is being true to his desire to be the change this country needs.

America should not be above criticizm, especially from within. It is the only way we can ever hope to become the country we like to 'think' we are.


peace~
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. You're too late, your candidate already said he wasn't right
and didn't agree with his statements.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Except he didn't say WHICH statements - yet, anyway.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Ummm... that doesn't make any real sense.
How is it 'too late' to acknowledge that Wright speaks truth to many issues? Has Obama distancing himself somehow changed everything Wright said?

My point in the OP was that we've been led away from the substance of Wright's speech. Is that how you would have it?

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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. the statement "God damn America" is absolute nonsense to an atheist
so why the big deal about making references to a non-existent supreme deity?

If Rev. Wright said it in another way, i.e., "God-damned Americans", that he was in some way expressing his hatred toward the average US citizen, then maybe some of the vitriol against him might have been justified.

OTOH if he was denouncing American or Yanqui imperialism, which is de rigueur in current South American political speeches, it should not have raised many heads, even here. I concur whole-heartedly with that statement.

I think I'll have a good, old fashioned American flag-burning party tonight.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Yes, you're right.
It's just as meaningless as saying "God bless America."
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. "Truth Time: Wright Is Right" posted at TPM Cafe by DF 3-15-2008 (via CommonDreams)
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Updated linky
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yes, that will make a dandy slogan for the GE.
:silly:
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. What does that have to do with anything?
Who's saying that?

Ummm... no one.

Get with the program.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. k&r
:popcorn:

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. Wright may be spot on, but let's see if Obama can sell that to the American public. (eom)
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Most won't think beyond the style - that's probably why Barack handled it the way he did. nt
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Pennsylvania will be the litmus test. (eom)
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Well, our suburban Philly Obama office was packed with volunteers today!
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Obama volunteers vs. pissed off voters. We'll see who gets to April 22
"firstest with the mostest".
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Who are the pissed off voters?
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Voters who are offended by "God damn America" and negative refernces to whites.
This IS a thread about Rev. Wright isn't it?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Just checking, since everybody's pissed about the war and the economy...
I haven't met a voter (outside this board) who's upset about Rev. Wright.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Just checking, Hillary is far more capable of handling the economy and the issue of Iraq.(eom)
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. You mean the same Iraq that she foolishly enabled Bush to invade???
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:13 PM by polichick
The same war that created the deficit we're now stuck with???
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Realize this is a Rev. Wright thread, but you Obama folk just keep
singing that same ol'"fooled in Iraq" tune just like your "Johnny-One-Note" candidate.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Lol - a natural progression of our conversation...
I'm sure it's a sore spot ~ but then it SHOULD be!
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. "sore spot"
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:31 PM by oasis
Hillary said this long before primary season "Those who can't get over the decision I made on IWR have many other candidates to choose from".

Not a "sore spot" for me. Not being a one issue voter, I've moved on.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Yes, a litmus test for America n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. I don't think he should or should have to.
It's enough to know that Obama is aware. I doubt he's going to run on any of Wright's positions.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I wish he hadn't condemned Wright's statements without being specific about which ones.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. True, Obama's not "going to run on any of Wright's positions"
His problem will be running away from Wright's positions until November.

Can he?
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. He's made a fairly clean break.
I'd be surprised if anyone but right wing nuts are talking about Wright in a month.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. The seed has been planted. I'll be an orchard come November. (eom)
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Please do explain how.
I really would like to know how this isn't going to fizzle.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. how about us?
Where do we stand?

We put too much burden on Obama. He already has the burden of being forced to appear non-threatening to white voters. He already has to work twice as hard, as all Black people do, for the same recognition or success. I was surprised and disappointed to see so many agree with the right wingers that Wright's comments were "hateful" and "racist" - thereby buying into the "reverse racism" idiocy - and then deny that this could be damaging in the general, and then to sit back hoping that the candidate would work himself out of this - as though the only job Obama supporters had to do was to bash Clinton supporters. Obama is an exceptionally brilliant man, and may just work himself out of this. But it is disappointing to see how few of us have his back on this.

I agree that the right wing will use this, and I agree that it could be damaging, and I agree that some Obama supporters have been naive about this.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. K and R
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FyurFly Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
28. Wright is an anti-American bigot n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Bullshit.
He has every right to criticize how this country has treated people of different races and cultures, that makes him no more 'anti-American' than someone who criticises the administration.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Spot on Dr. E.
This country has had a long history of mistreating minorities, even as late as last year..remember the gay bashing going on in the Republican party going even so far as to want to change the constitution to promote prejudice against gays.
Give me Obama over ANY republican, and I consider Hillary republican light.
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FyurFly Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Good luck in the G/E n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Thanks.
I'm sure you're really just trying to be a shithead, but far be it from me to treat you as such.

Instead, let's think about this.

Should Barack Obama get the nomination, which he has all but won by now, a storm will sweep Republicans from power like hay in a tornado. I'm quite convinced, and with good and obvious reason, that the right is terrified of an Obama candidacy. They know that most of their typical memes will not work on him.

Think... when the right wing blowhards are desperate enough to tell their listeners to go out and vote for Clinton, then you know there's nothing in their playbook to deal with Obama.

Obama has dealt with this issue in a timely fashion. No attempt to bring it up around the GE will look like anything but this . The only real problem will be the ads of Hillary Clinton saying that McCain has more experience than Obama.

So does he need luck to win? No. But thanks anyway.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Where's the beef?
Define "anti-American."

Where's the evidence that Rev. Wright is "anti-American?"

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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. Preachers don't have to wave the flag, and often have a responsibility not to
Read the bible a bit. The part Wright referred to as he spoke "God Damn America" was the books of the prophets, where the wrath of god was called down upon the wicked actions of Israel, unless it repented. Understand the context, and he is even more correct.
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
43. Wright's substance & style are not persuasive
That's the thing that really bugs me. Seriously, if a big story broke tomorrow that he was getting paid by McCain, Fox News, or Richard Mellon Scaife, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Sure, this sermon had his congregation on their feet cheering. It may have many others in America cheering. But winning elections is all about convincing the independents, the undecideds, and the new voters, to support your candidate. Did he convince ANYONE who wasn't already supporting Obama to support him? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Yeah, that's pretty much understood.
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Frumious B Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
49. I agree with the substance of much of what Wright says in the clips.
His presentation is way over the top, but Wright strikes me as a basically decent and honorable person and I think Obama showed a lot of character in that he made a point to stick up for the man while distancing himself from his statements.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
52. It's the gratuitous cruelty that makes the difference for me
In his Hillary rants and Natalie Holloway rant for example. These point s/ rants can be shouted and sermonized without the cruelty.
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
53. He's wrong on substance and style. Unequivocably wrong. Also, the campaign trail and the WH is not
DU. The incendiary language and over the top accusations are not appropriate for a campaign and he is part of BOs campaign. It's as simple as that.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #53
59. Great, then you can tell us what he said that was 'wrong on substance'.
Anytime....


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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
55. He admires Farrakhan. The Trumpeteer Award for 2007
Trumpet Gala 2007

The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan received the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. Lifetime Achievement Trumpeteer Award at the 2007 Trumpet Gala held on November 2, at the Hyatt Regency Chicago.

And Mr. Farrakhan is the cover story of the November/December 2007 issue of Wrights Trinity United Church Of Christs magazine, which is run by Mr. Wrights daughter:
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #55
60. Obviously he gave him the award for being a racist asshole and nothing else...
Which makes him a racist asshole, and therefore Obama a racist asshole, and therefore Obama's supporters racist assholes.

:eyes:

The question is; "Does Wright share Farrakhan's racism?"

I've seen no evidence of that.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
56. I called Obama's campaign headquarters today with an idea
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:48 PM by George Oilwellian
The guy I spoke to liked it so much, he was very excited and anxious to get my message to the campaign managers and he assured me they will get my message.

The next step they need to take is put MORE focus on the church. I know that sounds odd but hear me out. Listening to the sound bites of a few fiery sermons in no way gives the American public a well rounded view of the entire church. Obama needs to come out and talk more about what else the church offers to the community. If you look hereyou'll find a huge list of various services & activities the church offers. Their community outreach is superb and Obama helped Pastor Wright create some of those outreach programs. Just look at the list...this church caters to every segment of their community, and most importantly they do a lot of work with families living in poverty and help them become educated hence more self-sufficient. Having worked for Head Start for several years, I'm keenly aware of how important support systems are to young single mothers. I'd love to see their internal statistics on success stories and it would be fabulous to interview one of those young mothers that got an education and is now self-sufficient. I kept those statistics on our Head Start parents and we had great success in getting mothers to go back to school and learn a trade. They couldn't have done that without other support systems.

Now imagine the public learning about a church that helps people overcome poverty and live as productive members of society. Isn't that what we want for each other as a nation? I think going this direction would be a way for Americans to learn of all the good that pastor Wright has done in his community for the past 40 years. He and Obama worked together to help build that support system that people living in poverty need. It would totally diffuse the fiery sermons and get people to thinking about the substance you mention. It will get people to think about Obama's history as a community organizer. He's been far too humble about what he actually did when in that position. It's time he shines a light on that part of his life.

Another interesting factoid I mentioned, Oprah was a member of that church as well and who better to shine a light on the congregation? It would certainly tame the angry clerics who are angry with Obama and shine a light on all of the good work they ALL do.

Whaddya think? :D

PS: Celestial choirs will be singing! :rofl:
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