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There's a golden opportunity staring Hillary right in the face but, of course, she will miss it

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:50 PM
Original message
There's a golden opportunity staring Hillary right in the face but, of course, she will miss it
She should denounce Pastorgate.

Oh yes she should.

Save Obama while he's twisting in the wind, you ask. Why on earth would she do that?

Keep in mind, I am certain that Hillary will play it safe and she won't do the obvious, so I'll go ahead and spill the beans: Denouncing Pastorgate right now would go far to rescuing her with Obama's supporters, particularly the black vote. It would show guts about something larger than herself, principle and leadership. Of course, it could also help secure the nomination for Obama.

So, you see, there's absolutely no risk she will do it.

She'll sit tight, hoping this sinks Obama. The only problem with that is, if it does, the nomination won't be worth having. A great many of Obama's supporters, who make up half the party now, will be deflated to the point where she would either have to spend most of the fall reviving them or resign herself to underperforming with key segments of the base.

She'll lose in Novmember massively if Pastorgate turns out to be her path to the nomination.

On the other hand, she could do something semi-bold, lament the media's obsession with fringe issues at a time when our financial system is on the verge of collapsing, scream from the highest media mountaintop that we have problems and we need solutions, call bullshit on the politics of personal destruction and make many people who have given up on her think again.

Such a maneuver would also buy her some much needed time for releasing her tax returns.

Alright, forget the last part.

Denounce Pastorgate now, Hillary, and you just might have a shot at not only the nomination, but the presidency as well.

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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I completely agree with you
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Denounce what? The tapes exist.
She can't put this back in the bottle. I don't understand the suggestion?
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Denounce the use of them against Obama.
Wright is not Obama. Obama clearly doesn't spew those few inflammatory comments that Wright did, and clearly doesn't believe them.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. She can say I know Obama doesn't hate white people so what's the point?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 06:13 PM by BeyondGeography
Just as Obama saluted the Clintons for their commitment to racial equality and equal rights when race card politics threatened to overtake the campaign back in January.

This is really easy.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. LOL - only took Obama a week to sort of stop what he started
:rofl:

That is really, really funny.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. See, I knew I could count on you
:thumbsup:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. but Obama didn't salute them nor does he believe that .....his pastor even said "the.....
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 06:32 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
Clinton's rode us black people like Bill rode Monica" as humped the lectern while he was saying it.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. She could say, "I'm proud of my country, and don't mind singing God Bless America...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 06:29 PM by smalll
Senator Obama agrees with me, as far as I know." :evilgrin:
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. A far more likely outcome
Unfortunately (for her).
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. A far more likely outcome
Unfortunately (for her).
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
54. The good news is that voters
are figuring this out without hilary and she gets demerits for instigating the whole thing.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. OK--OOPS you missed his polls diving today
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree too- as a Hillary supporter.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Don't hold your breath.
She has done so very little right this campaign.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. indeed
and it might not help him all that much

she'd get credit for taking the high road, but the media would not lay off

she would actually show that she might be worthy after all
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why the hell should she?
I don't hear any outrage from the Obama campaign about the C.U.N.T. website? Have you?

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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I am outraged by it.
I've never been to it, but read about it in the Nation. It is disgusting and should be shut down.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. oh geez, is there one?
agggghh
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Is that a real website?
:wow:
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Not familiar with it. I am sure Obama would denounce it if it became a major issue
Talking about it now would just bring attention to it.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Holy Christ!
There is a website with that acronym?
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Yes.....it's been on the news
Republican consultant Roger Stone, who recently established the anti-Hillary Clinton group Citizens United Not Timid -- which emphasizes its acronym on its website and on T-shirts by bolding the first letter in each word of its name and purports to "educate the American public about what Hillary Clinton really is" -- appeared on MSNBC's Tucker.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Disgusting.
nt.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I hadn't heard of this
sounds disgusting for sure. :-(
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. It's been on the news and posted here many times.....
I didn't hear any outrage from anyone but the Clinton supporters.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Trust me, I have NEVER heard of this before
how disgusting. I hate that word, it is vile and if I had seen it I would have said something.

So I'm saying it now. That is a horrible thing to do to anyone. :mad: :nuke:
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. I'm a Obama supporter and I do denounce, renounce this kind
of thing..but what do you expect from a repub???they are vile..
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. I have never heard of it either
Needless to say, I can't even imagine what kind of hateful idiot would start or visit such a site.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
56. I haven't been here as much
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:58 PM by Raine
or keeping up with current events cause my father died last week. I just been in and out here some to take my mind off of that. I guess I missed the threads on it. Just the name alone is about as repulsive as it gets, truly sick.
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cloudythescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Unlike the ZILLION DU threads and SPECIAL SECTION at RealClearPolitics on 'pastorgate', I'd never...
even heard of the C.U.N.T. Website until now. In fact, if Obama were to highlight it at this point, when it is known apparently to the cognoscenti, would probably be widely condemned for highlighting something that should have been ignored (something like affirmation by negation).
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. I hadn't heard of that website....Disgusting
But what does this have to do with Obama, and Her taking the high road?
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. I disagree
and btw why do a lot of white Obama DUers seem to think that we support what Wright said simply becasue he is a "black" pastor?

Its not Clintons job to defend Obama, he needs to do it himself. Ive been burned enough by democrats selecting candidates who are too weak to defend themselves against smears (see Kerry) to think Obama has done enough to diffuse this topic. I wish he came out against Wright BEFORE the story became this big.

For what its worth I voted for Obama in the TX primary and like 90% of blacks I will vote for the Dem nominee in the GE regardless of who it is.


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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. She should come forward . . . but she won't, even to save her own
skin if she happens to be the nominee. If Obama is drummed out, there will be bitter, bitter feelings that will keep people home in November.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. "The scorpion wants to cross a river, but does not see any way across. . .
The scorpion wants to cross a river, but does not see any way across.

She sees a frog sitting by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river, and asks the frog for help getting across the stream.

The frog responds How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?". "Because," the scorpion replies, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for I cannot swim!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and then kill me?" said the frog. "Because once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!" replies the scorpion.

So the frog agrees to take the scorpion across the river.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back. "You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we will both die! Why did you do that?" The scorpion shrugged, I could not help myself. It is my nature."

They then both sink into the muddy waters of the river and drown.

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
44. Perfect analogy !
of what is happening with the Party. Can you say President McCain?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. WTF should she come forward to defend Obama?
Did Obama came forward and said Ferraro isn't Hillary?
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. It's called political gain
She could benefit enormously by taking an unexpected stand on Pastorgate; he had no upside in defending Ferraro.

Sometimes you need to take the baseball cap off and just watch the game.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. Democrats have no higher morals than Republicans
That's all this primary has shown me and that bell can't be unrung. My loyalty to the Democratic Party is just about done. I'm undecided between forgetting the "democratic" process altogether and registering as an Independent in protest of the Clinton wing. I can't take much more of this shit.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. The Obama supporters are the ones who said
Obama didn't need Hillary...she was a liability. My, how that can come back to bite you in the ass. let him defend himself.
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yes, you're either with us or against us, right? It's all black and white.
Are you excited to watch FOX tonight and watch them smear Barack?
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. I knew he was a fake before any of this came out.....
I said on this very forum his relationship with this church would bite him in the ass....but NOOOOOOOOO Obama supporters knew better.

Obama supporters repeatedly stated "he's the teflon candidate" "Wright is no problem" yada yada yada. No amount of begging, pleading or reasoning got through....nope Obama supporters knew better. They said they didn't need Hillary or her supporters....Hillary was a liability. Now, they want Hillary and her supporters to defend Obama and bail him out? What a bunch of hypocrites.


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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Are you freakin kidding me? What planet do you live on?
Planet ignore.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. What are you babbling about? n/t
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. The Obama supporters hypocrisy is stunning. If he can't defend himself
then maybe he's not cut out to be president.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. He has done so.
He has come forward, and gave interviews, and denounced this rhetoric. It appears by another thread, McCain has done the same. Hillary now stands to lose what by not coming forward?
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. Fuck McCain, he's playing nice and waiting for the 527's to do the job.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 06:44 PM by golddigger
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
29. I agree fully ........nt
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
40. Just like he denounced Bill Clinton being called a racist? Or came running to help Hillary during
the Ferraro flap.

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. On the first point, yes, in fact
Obama Tries to Stop the Silliness

==Asked whether he believed either Mrs. Clinton or former President Bill Clinton had shown racial insensitivity in recent days, he said: I dont want to rehash that. I think that Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have historically and consistently been on the right side of civil rights issues. I think they care about the African-American community and that they care about all Americans and they want to see equal rights and justice in this country.==

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/obama-tri...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. oh yeah--the guy who raises above the fray-AFTER his surrogates are out
there doing the damage.

what is BO doing as they call bill and hillary racists?
NOTHING
SILENCE
then he spouts his little---of course they are not!!
get a grip!! HIS SILENCE WAS THE PROBLEM
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. In fact, they were stirring the pot, and the proof is they can barely get 10% of the black vote
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:17 PM by BeyondGeography
anymore.

If you think that Hillary as nominee will have no worries about November because black voters will have no other choice if she manages to saunter in on the heels of Pastorgate, you're wrong. Severe damage has been done by the Clintons, and there's a chance to begin making amends right now. But, as I said in the OP, she won't, which is another reason why she's a disaster.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. YOUR premise is wrong. It was BO surrogates who toxified the stew
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
47. HRC should denounce Pastergate because its SMART POLITICS
It creates goodwill in those currently leaning towards Obama, but who are diesturbed by recent events, and in all Democrats worried about the impact of all of this in the General Election.

She is unlike to lose votes from those offended by Wrights remarks, or those who doubt Obama's electability. She will gain and consolidate votes with Democrats worried about the tone of the contest, and it's impact on the General Election. It will also defuse charges that she is running only on personal ambition without concern about the welfare of the Democratic Party.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
48. Very tough to do what you say.
For one thing, would Obama or his supporters want her to do it? If it failed to help Obama, there would be claims that she "made it fail on purpose." Second, she has to try to help Obama without lying. If she says that, for example, she thinks Obama should not be punished for what Wright said, that could be true. If she says it is reasonable that Obama went to church with Wright for 20 years and didn't know anything about the controversy, it's probably not true. It would make her look like a liar or naive and would hurt her without helping Obama.

We are likely going to see the issue raised for Obama (and probably tossed into Hillary's lap too) at the PA debate. It is a month away, though, so the issue might fade completely by then.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I think it would be best for her and for the party, especially if she pulls this out
She's going to need every Democratic vote she can get, and this is something she could point to help unify the party. She's much more dependent on Democrats than Obama for votes, and beating a black man because of the church he goes to is a disaster for us all if it happens.

I don't really understand the "fail on purpose" point."

She could cut off the second line of questioning simply by saying it doesn't matter to her what Obama's pastor said, she knows Barack doesn't harbor hatred toward whites and she's not running against Rev. Wright.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. If she could pull it off, I am sure she would.
I'm betting the Clinton campaign and Hillary see the option you are talking about. But it would be a very difficult thing for her to do. I'm not saying she couldn't do it. I think she probably will do it to some degree.

But if she looks like she is trying to capitalize on Barack's misfortune or even if Barack's supporters think it looks like that, she will get vilified. If Obama's campaign goes into a complete tailspin and crashes afterward, Hillary would be accused of making things worse. If she just stands back and Obama crashes on his own, it won't be a good reason for her to win, but at least she doesn't risk taking blame from Obama supporters--not the cool-headed ones anyway.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. She's not to blame for this, that's why all options are on the table
Villifying her for standing up for Obama when it was potentially costly for her would only be held against her by the chronically unfair (which, of course, might be about 75% of the people on the board...).
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
52. Let's get something perfectly clear......
HILLARY AIN'T HIS MOMMA. This is HIS problem and is his mess to clean up.

Remember, obama supporters think Hillary's a liability to Obama.

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. It will be her mess to clean up if she's the nominee...the seeds of harmony don't sprout overnight
Try thinking about it for just one or two seconds, you'll get it.

Then again, maybe you won't.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
53. Absolutely correct.
It's called 'circling the wagons' to protect the party.
And of course she won't do it. She wants to win the nomination at all costs... even if that means the Dems lose in Nov.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
59. This is the2nd post I have today with this silliness!! Where was BO when
his surrogates were calling bill and hillary racists??

He sat on his duff in silence.

you people need to get out more and see the hell is going on
and put a cap on you self -rightousness!
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
62. We'll win without you
and the Republicrats being registered in PA right now.

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