Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

obama's mistakes last night:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:38 PM
Original message
obama's mistakes last night:
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:40 PM by niyad
having seen the comments here on DU, after being out of touch for several days, I made a point of reading some of wright's sermons and comments. the "chickens coming home to roost" had several very large kernels of truth in it. some of the rest was quite inflammatory, and offensive (hillary may not have ever been called ******, but she endured the sexism so many women of our years have, and continue to do, a fact he didn't find worth mentioning)

however, obama's comments, at least the ones on KO's program, were very worrisome. the very FIRST thing was his sidestepping of the direct question of "did you fire him, or did he step aside?" talk about mealy-mouthed "it was obvious he needed to step out of the spotlight" ugh. then his disingenuous comments about how wright NEVER preached anything like those comments when he was in the pews. please, that is not even credible, and, at least jonathan alter pointed that out, along with commenting that wright is known for this type of sermon.

this incident is very disturbing on many levels. I have had issue with more than a few of obama's remarks and attitudes, and this is simply confirmation of that.

the other jonathan comment that interested me was his saying that a candidate shouldn't be judged by the remarks of associates. if that is true for obama, it needs to be true for everyone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. There's no doubt he lied about not hearing these comments before
In his own book he quotes Wright as sermonizing about "White man's greed."

His own book betrays him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. that whole "lack of judgment" thing again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. Pretty much.
Actually, wasn't it "repeated" lapses in judgment? (I think those were the words Barack used.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. "White man's greed" wasn't one of the remarks in the news recently.
Obama didn't say that he's never heard Rev. Wright say anything controversial, just that he didn't hear the remarks in the news until recently.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
writes3000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. For the last time, you are hearing what you want to hear.
Obama NEVER said that Wright didn't make pointed remarks about race.

He said he hadn't heard THESE remarks before. "God damn America"...."Hillary hasn't ever been called (the N word)"

Those are the remarks he was saying he hadn't heard.

Please do not try to reframe his statements to mean something he obviously didn't mean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. No, it's what they want others to hear.
That is not an innocent mistake. This conflation is purposeful.

:hippie:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. let's nitpick about which hateful words he heard and which
he didn't. Obviously he KNEW the kind of things Wright said and if you believe he hasn't heard any of those words you are BEYOND naive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. BO heard them---and you are too wrapped up in him to listen to anyone!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. The did-you-fire-him question is unfair.
A politician doesn't want to say "I fired him" and embarass the guy who left, nor does he want to say, "It was entirely his own decision" and look dishonest or like the resignation doesn't reflect disagreement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
easy_b94 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. U just want to take a good man down...do u :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. looking at the truth is a problem for you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Humiliating someone who resigned by publicly announcing...
...he was forced to, would generally be a problem for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. oh please, all he had to say was that wright realized it was an
appropriate thing to do. no disgrace to anyone there.

his answer was evasive, and politic. pointing that out is simply stating a fact. and, guess what, most of us here very clearly understand what was said by wright, and what obama said. we don't need you to misinterpret them for us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. So Obama should have been evasive, but with different wording?
If he had said "wright realized it was an appropriate thing to do," that wouldn't be answering whose decision it was, either.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Obama PROFOUNDLY DISAGREES with those comments
I thought that most of his supporters here agreed with Reverend Wright.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. I wonder why Obama lied about hearing those things?
When so many on DU thought they were the greatest truths they had ever heard?

Why did Obama dismiss them?

The particular statements that have been pulled out of Rev. Wrights sermons are ones that I profoundly disagree with, Obama said, adding that he has never been at Trinity when Wright made similar remarks.


Is Obama politics as usual?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. This concerns me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. who is that a photo of? NT
NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
easy_b94 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. evil white man
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. Tim Gunn
of Project Runway a great show.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Thanks for the laugh!
The photo's name is "concern troll?"

Who's trolling?

I'm confused, but the photo is hilarious!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thank you... and...
(hillary may not have ever been called ******, but she endured the sexism so many women of our years have, and continue to do, a fact he didn't find worth mentioning)

She may not have been called a ****** but she gets called a B**** every single minute of every day, even by the democrats that are supposed to be her allies, friends and supporters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I am also really proud of her....
for staying out of this Jeremiah Wright mess!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/15/clinton...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. it truly pisses me off that racism can be discussed with reference to obama,
but we are not supposed to mention the sexism that is still the bedrock of this society.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. there's1 Black congressperson for every 845,000 AA's, there's 1 congresswoman for every 2.5m women
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 04:36 PM by Texas Hill Country
1/845,000

1/2,500,000

so, who's under represented?


it is my sincere belief that women are the bottom of the minority pile, and it isnt even recognized. I find that incredibly sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. thanks for that!-- makes it so clear, doesn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Even a lot of progressive men
miss this important fact of everyday life for women all over the world. It's so prevalent, even a lot of women don't like or trust other women. The indoctrination is pervasive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. Yeah, that part was BS
Wright dismisses what women go through just for being women. I'm sure Hillary as a young girl or woman experienced men yelling out insults or lascivious comments to her as they drove by. That is a pretty common experience of women. And I'd say there are a lot more rapes that happen nowadays than lynchings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. Barrie 'I actually received a quarter of a million dollars from Rezko' Obama
made some 'mistakes'?? Wow, and here I thought he could walk on water.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. One would certainly get that idea
listenting to all the kool-aid drinkers here on DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. A Pearl of a Post Found in the DU Abyss
K&R

:thumbsup:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is a Rovian wet dream. Obama caught lying directly into the
camera,"then his disingenuous comments about how Wright NEVER preached anything like those comments when he was in the pews."

Those comments are going to bite him in the ass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
23. I know last night was supposed to be Obama's big damage control..
But I think he blew it. He came across as evasive, defensive and sometimes very unsure of himself. The people at the RNC were probably cheering and throwing confetti.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I'm sure they were. They had the swift boat ad of this campaign
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 03:29 PM by greyghost
handed to them.

Opening: Wright God Damning America.

Cut to: Obama & Michelle in the pew, stock footage will suffice.

End: Obama with arm around Wright.

Of course the heavy, fear mongering, narration through out is a given.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. "I have had issue with more than a few of obama's remarks and attitudes" -- Like what?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. his praise of ronnie ray-gun, his dismissive "excesses of the 60's,
when, had it not been for those excesses--the fight for women's rights, for civil rights, etc, he wouldn't be where he is today. his dismissive "her supporters will come to me, but mine won't go to her" comment, and others that struck me as arrogant and, yes, sexist.

his announcement about using that pos colin powell as an advisor, the donny mcglurkin thing. shall I go on?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. I'm right with you there,
niyad. That business about Reagan still sticks in my craw. I read some more about what he said about the Reagan years where the guy actually waxes nostalgic of those times. :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Please read my response to what he wrote
Because his concerns aren't backed up by reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. He said Reagan was a transformative political figure, he didn't praise the policies of Reagan
In fact, he has denounced Reagan's policies both in his book and elsewhere

Obama's talk about the excesses of the 60s had nothing to do with women's rights, civil rights, etc. It had to do with the unrestrained growth of the government COMBINED with a lack of responsibility/accountability for making sure it was doing a good job.

Here's the factcheck on it: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18... If that matters to you.

And Obama has said he wants and would encourage his voters to go and support Hillary, he just honestly wasn't sure that they would. That's a fair statement, since when you bring in a bunch of a new voters, those new voters are attached to a particular candidate. Also, Hillary has trouble with independent voters that Obama gets (though Obama has a little bit a trouble with some Democrats, compared to Hillary).

If you want to ignore his long-standing record of supporting the rights and freedoms of all peoples, and his long-standing progressive record, then that's you're call. Just because he is willing to talk to and listen to people he doesn't entirely agree with doesn't mean he'd do a bad job as President. In fact, typically that sort of thing results in a better functioning cabinet and executive branch if run properly (one of the reasons for Lincoln's effective presidency, in fact). It seems like you are depending on a bunch of misinformation for your knowledge about Obama; because his record doesn't support your fears.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nia Zuri Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. They poured over those tapes and excerpted the most inflammatory comments
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 04:42 PM by scard
What was distilled into those clips were Wright's "greatest hits"...the absolutely most shocking of his sermons. It is very likely that Obama hadn't actually hadn't heard anything that was quite so explosive sitting in the pews. This is all beside the point, many many black churches have reverends who"tell it like it is' preach black empowerment and denounce the racism its parishioners suffer in...they do so in very strong, passionate, fiery terms the way a nonracial would be delivered as well. The message and tone might shake the sensibilities of some of you whites who have never been in a black church before, but it really is not that big of a deal when you start to reflect on the truth of what was Wright said, you might come to realize that much of it is true though you might not like hearing it. We really live in different realities...sigh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. I have a hard time believing he didn't know about the more incendiary sermons
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 05:59 PM by goodgd_yall
I don't think he was being honest there. But I did find his statement of disagreement with Wright sincere and his comments about the difference in experience between people of Wright's generation and his own insightful.

His denial of every hearing any of the inflammatory sermons while attending his church and never hearing anyone talk about those sermons just shows Obama can be dishonest for political ambition, just like most if not all politicians. That isn't news to me, but I'd like to see more of his supporters come down to earth and realize he's not the second coming as far as politicians go.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Of course he did. That's why he started to keep a distance
And now he has a problem either way.
One way he betrays an old mentor/ friend/ pastor/ father figure and is accused of being disloyal
The other way he is is naive and/or a liar and is untrustworthy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. It will come, like cultists everywhere they simply need a
strong enough jolt. :nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Aug 29th 2014, 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC