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gillamonster Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:24 PM
Original message
Guilty by association???
As far as Obama and Wright are concerned I gave this some thought and my first impression of him comparing it to an old uncle was pretty skeptical, but the more I thought about it the more sense it made. I owe a lot of who I am to my grandfather and he has taught me so much about life lessons and being a good person, but he grew up on the farm in the south and used words and had some views that I find totally offensive and do not agree with them at all. But he was instrumental in my upbringing and under no circumstance would I turn my back on him for anything he said. He is from a different era and different time and things have changed and I understand that and accept it. Obamas minister was the person who was directly responsible for Barack finding Christ and that is a major part of his life and who he is. I wouldn't expect or understand if he just turned his back on the man who helped him find that path. I think Obama handled it well highlighting that the man was a marine, a former civil rights activist, and is from a different time and era, but at the same time emphasizing the fact that Wright played an instrumental role in his life and helping him find Christ, and I think Obama feels like most of us do about people who have helped us become who we are, weather its a parent, grandparent, relative, friend, or minister, forever grateful and loyal despite their flaws. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I think if people can't get past this and it hurts his chances of getting elected it will be a very unfortunate event in our history, because I think he has a great vision for America and has the ability, skills, and gifts to reach out to people and actually make it happen.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is Obama's mentor. He chose a man who was a bigot
as his mentor. He knew from the beginning of his relationship who he was. Wright has not changed.

This is not a situation where Obama found god through this man who suddenly became a bigot. Obama chose the bigot as a mentor.
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gillamonster Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So you're saying is Obama
said o.k. buddy you got exactly what I'm looking for in a mentor, you are Bigot..sign me up.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. no. I am saying that Obama is lying about what he knows Wright
stands for and that Obama stands for the same thing, or Wright would not be his mentor.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Must be nice to live
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 01:52 PM by Mz Pip
in your world where everything is so cut and dried. WHere there is no nuance, no complexity of human experience, personality or evolution. In your world everyone knows everthing there is about the people they associate with, what they think at all times, what they do, how they feel.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. ohmygod. You guys have been attacking Clinton non-stop
suggesting there is no such thing as nuance and complexity of human experience. Ohmygod what a double standard.

Sure, I tell you what: give her the same treatment you give him. Then come back and talk to me about nuance.

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gillamonster Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Evergreen.....
It's fine that you are a Hillary supporter and obviously want her to win, I have no problem with that, but to talk yourself into this guy being a bigot and that is the reason Obama chose him as his mentor is beyond a stretch, step back into reality.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Uh, no
I do not attack Clinton. She's never been my first choice but I aam not a hater. Still you just proved my point. Because I made a comment about the complexities of people and their issues, you automatically assume I am a Clinton hater.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I have been on DU this season and not once have I heard you come
to Clinton's rescue with calls of "remember the complexity of people." "Don't forget nuance." I apologize in advance when you show me the posts.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Big difference
between coming to her rescue and trashing her. THere are more then enough people to defend her. Usually I stay out of Clinton bashing threads. BUt if you want to infer that I hate Clinton in all of this, go right ahead. She's not my first choice of a candidate and if that, in your mind makes me a hater, I'm not going to bother to defend myself. :shrug:
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gillamonster Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Evergreen
It's fine that you are a Hillary supporter and obviously want her to win, I have no problem with that, but to talk yourself into this guy being a bigot and that is the reason Obama chose him as his mentor is beyond a stretch, step back into reality.
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gillamonster Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. So you are saying
that Obama believes in everything that Wright does, the "God Damn America" and all that other great stuff??????
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I am saying that Obama has this man as his mentor, wrote a book
based on a sermon, and uses him for guidance. I beleive that he believes what WRight believes or he would not be his mentor. And we have the proof, look at Michelle's statments.

I am waiting for the video of Michelle and Barack standing and jumping and shouting Amen along with the congregation to Wright's sermons.
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gillamonster Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Yeah you are probably right.....
I'm sure that every sermon Wright ever gave was just like the pieces from the few we have seen the past few days, so every week for 20 years he talked about stuff along the lines of "God Damn America", and never offered anything outside of that. Nothing inspirational, motivational, spiritual, just complete 100% "bigotry" every day all day. Come on you cant believe that just because Obama might beat Hillary can you?????
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Bigot, bigot BIGOT! BIGOT! BIGOT!! HE SAID HE SAID HE SAID!!!
IGNORE!
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. head in sand, eyes closed, ears covered, singing Lalalalalala
ignore and vote...lovely.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. grow up
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. This man has been a pastor
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 04:37 PM by DearAbby
for twenty years. Has built a membership of this church to 6,000 members. Has probably given thousands of hours of sermons. Look at their website of the outreach programs they have. Look at the lives of the Members of this church and you see caring people. People who care about improving the lives of those less fortunate. You see a church like any other church.

What we have been shown is a McCarthy witch-hunt. They cherry-picked for the most inflamatory statements, then presented them in the forum they wanted. I guess it is easy to see how people fell for the RED SCARE Tactics, they are doing it again...Black Scare tactics. Be afraid of the angry black people.



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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. pointing out racial inequality in America is not bigotry.
just because Wright is angry, does not mean he has no cause to be so.
find me a quote that you deem to be racist. and don't bother to bring in the one about Hillary not ever being called a n*****, because that one is nothing but the truth.

You are an idiot if you think that the thousands who attend Obama's Church do so because they are all bigots or support bigotry.
There are whites who attend right along with the blacks.

Obama is half-white for Christ-sakes.
His mother was a White Woman from Kansas.
He is most definitely not a bigot.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. A bigot because he said Hillary didn't know what it was like to be a black man?
I'm also not sure Wrights a bigot from what I've heard. He said Hillary didn't understand what it was like to be a black man and I suspect even Hillary would agree with that statement. As a white female I sure wouldn't say I knew what it was to be either black or a guy let alone both.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well written post, and I have the same experience
My grandfather used terms such as "blacks" and "jews", with a bit of venom. Nobody else in my family spoke so, and I grew up without any real notion of racism except as a historical incident (though I know that is a misconceived, too). The divide between black and white communities is one issue, but another that is often overlooked is the divide between the young and the old.

Wright is of the "old school", while Obama is of the new. I think Obama would be a great uniter.

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. We all have flawed family members, but Obama chose Wright
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 04:26 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
As the saying goes, you don't get to chose your family. I wouldn't want to be held to account for my family! (And I'm sure they feel the same about me.)

And most people don't chose their church... they are whatever religion their parents were.

But when you are raised with no religion and only first decide to pick a church as an adult, you do chose your church. Barack describes, with admirable candor, why he decided to pick a church, and how he shopped around for the right church for him.

So the association in question is volitional, which is a different thing.
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WitchyWoman57 Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. But he's lying
The problem is, he's lying now. He says he never heard Wright say those things. You simply cannot belong to a church and not know the kinds of things that are being preached from the pulpit. He had to know. And if he found those ideas as abhorrent as he now claims, he would have disassociated himself from this man and not involved him in his campaign.
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