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This Wright episode is not good for Clinton either

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gabeana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:17 PM
Original message
This Wright episode is not good for Clinton either
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:00 PM by gabeana
The problem for Clinton is, a democrat cannot win without overwhelming black support in the General. The Ferraro and Wright drama is not good for CLinton because if (a big if)race is the issue that knocks Obama out, much of the AA vote will stay home. It seems like many white Americans do not understand that the History of People of Color has been a lot different than it has for white Americans. Their patriotism is perceived through a different lense. and rightfully this attack will be seen as an attack on the whole community. Just as some view a attack on Clinton as an attack on her gender. It will hurt Clinton in states like Ohio, Michigan, Florida, Penn, it could even hurt in New Jersey, It definitely won't help in Virginia. By the way of what some see as racism from Wright other see as speaking truth to power. I don't see much wrong in what he says except in the Aids remark, but then again we do know that U.S. government did purposely withhold treatment of infected AA's with syphilis. So from the AA point of view the Aids remark might not be that far off. Of course this is all a generalization, just something to keep in mind
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. The AIDS comment was remarkably
ignorant, and no person should be pushing such lies. That bothered far more than anything else he had to say.
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gabeana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. but don't you think
if you heard that the Fed gov't on purpose gave Americans a violent disease, it would be hard to believe, especially during a time when we are trying to make the world safe for democracy.

Or how about If I told you that the Idea for the super race was in part inspired by the United States, have you ever heard of eugenics, it wasn't started in Germany but in NY,
Hitler was inspired by the death camps through the American experince with the American Indian
This stuff might seem far fetched but its true, if you don't believe me I can go into my library and source it for you
my point though is that the AA community experice is a lot different than white Americans, therefore their view is different (again this is a generalization)
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. that would make a great post all by itself
I knew a little about the eugenics movement in the U.S. but not much else.
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gabeana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. thanks
I'm a history/ethnic studies professor, when I lecture on world war 2 I focus more on the intellectual movement behind the war, One of the fascinating episodes is that General Patton was a proponent of the Eugenics movement, he even smuggled out of Germany, Hitlers blood (Nuremberg) law, it was just found in the last decade at Hunington Library in california
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. This has nothing to do with eugenics
it has to do with the utter implausibility of inventing a retrovirus in a lab decades before anybody knew what a retrovirus was.
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easy_b94 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I believe The AIDS Comment
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. You believe
that over 50 years ago, the US government engineered a retrovirus? Decades before anybody knew what a retrovirus WAS? Before we even knew the structure of DNA?

And that retrovirus was designed to attack cells that nobody knew existed?

You'd have to believe in time travel to believe that.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. I don't mind the AIDS comment.
I think that sort of thing might persuade people to be more careful.


The infection rate among black Americans has been dropping at around 5% per year for several years now. Perhaps it's working?

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. You believe telling people lies
is the best preventative?

How strange - what's wrong with just telling the truth?
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's why they aren't commenting on it.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Another nail in the coffin hammered in by Mark Penn.
So sad.

I wish Hillary would have fired him for good last year.

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Neither Clinton nor Obama are good for November,
or for the future of the Democratic Party. I believe that the GE is the Democrats' to lose, and that it was lost as soon as the first votes were cast for either one of them.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. My growing fear as well.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. As far as this year's presidential election goes,
the only thing left for me to hope for is a brokered convention where neither will emerge a winner.

That leaves me holding my primary vote; I never planned to vote for either. I would have written in a better choice. Now, I'll look at the delegate situation when my primary rolls around in late May. If it's still too close to call, I'll vote for whoever has fewer delegates.
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. If "guilt by association" works, then anyone can be taken down,
especially Hillary because of a very very long list of associates.

The problem with guilt by association is it makes negative assumptions about the candidate being targeted.

Very very similar to the right wing way of thinking people are inherintly evil, rather than the left wing way of thinking that people are basically good.

We shouldn't become like a bunch of righties here at DU. It's bad for our souls.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Actually the gov't didn't infect the AAs with syphilus,
although what they did was terrible.

There was a gov't medical study in Tuskegee, AL. The study followed a group of AA men who already had syphilus in order to study the effects of syphilus as I recall. The gov't didn't offer treatment to these men, or even tell the men that treatment was available.
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gabeana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. good point your right, I need to be more careful in a free write
I'm going to edit
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. they told the men that they WERE receiving treatment...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:27 PM by NorthernSpy
... even though they actually weren't, and even after antibiotics became available.


So the disease spread to the men's wives and then to their unborn children. And the people running the study did nothing but observe, for decades.


And throughout all those decades, up until the 60s or 70s I think, public health journals were still publishing articles on this study. And it wasn't until the very end that even one of those nice, respectable, educated people objected to what was going on -- even though it had all been there in their own professional literature, in black and white.

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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Thanks for the clarification
I lived in a nearby town for several years, so this study has always been an especially serious stain on government ethics to me.
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