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One of the real reasons why Obama & Hillary supporters are at each others throats

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:19 AM
Original message
One of the real reasons why Obama & Hillary supporters are at each others throats
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:40 AM by mtnsnake
but hardly anyone is talking about it...

Many of the Hillary lovers think that their candidate would have had the nomination and presidency all sewn up and become the first woman president if Barack Obama had not come along in 2008 to ruin everything.

Many of the Obama lovers think that Hillary is the only thing that could possibly keep Democrats from getting the first African American person elected as our president.

Now, because of the split that all this in-fighting has created within our own Party, we might never see either dream come to fruition. Oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles for us Democrats who can never seem to get it right when it comes to any sense of timing.


(edited for clarification purposes: I changed "The Hillary lovers all think" to "Many of the Hillary lovers think"...and "The Obama lovers all think" to "Many of the Obama lovers think")
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. I tend to agree with you mtnsnake.
Its an incredibly unfortunate situation we're in.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yes, very unfortunate. Both these people deserve to be President
and take their place in history. Maybe with a little luck it'll still happen for one or both, but we Dems are doing everything in our power to make the task that much more difficult.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. yes, yes they do.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. indeed
while I like to think that we have progressed far enough that a woman or an African American indeed would have a legitimate shot at the Presidency, the fact is that clearing the decks of the six white males gave each a clearer shot and at the same time created pretty much an impasse. Two impassioned constituencies are given to believe that the glass ceiling could be broken - but only for one of them.

Pretty much a clusterfuck now.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. Your summation on obama lovers is sorely incorrect.
My support of Obama has nothing to do with his race, but everything to do with his programs and inclusion.

Hillary on the other hand is scorched earth, more of the sick same, and the wrong woman. IMO her martydom is destroying the woman's movement. You can't be a victim all the time.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. That's why I said "one of the reasons" as opposed to "the only reason"
because I didn't want to make like I was summing up how all the Obama supporters felt. It was kind of hard for me to word it just right. Inside the message, I probably should have said "Many of the Obama lovers" instead of "The Obama lovers".
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. WOW, I agree with mtnsnake! K & R
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. What cracks me up is, they're all upset at the negativity... wait till the GE
When the Republicans unleash a wave of hate on whoever eventually wins.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. Your slightly off on what Obama supporters think
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:29 AM by Submariner
That did not occur until the Clinton campaign had to go "racist" to slow Obama's momentum.

The Obama lovers all know that Hillary is a DLC neocon not qualified for the job as a progressive president and that Obama is not part of the clinton/Bush dynasties. It has nothing to do with race, no matter how much the Hillbots push that envelope.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. The only thing I think race has to do with it is that it will be wonderful for black people
the day we elect an African American for president, just as it will be wonderful for women when we elect a woman for president.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
8. I hope we are overeacting
I'm hoping that we can unify and somehow harness the new found energy of this primary season. It might not be so bad.

If Hillary get's the nod (somehow), then she has shown a willingness to have Obama as her running mate - this would hopefully be unifying in that both would be on the ticket.

If Obama gets the nomination (likely), the newfound energy of his supporters would carry on and hopefully help us carry the election in the fall. Hillary would not be a VP choice, but SOS or some other slot maybe.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. Considering there is hardly a policy shred of difference
between then this does seem to be the deal.
All the personality shredding is all for naught.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. You nailed it.
The differences in their "policies" are (1) negligent, and (2) hopeful conjecture. When have we EVER had a President live up to all of his campaign promises? Or even half of them? Their "policies" will be determined by Congress, which is precisely how it works with pretty much every President. There won't be any dramatic changes; the closest we might come to "change" from either candidate would be to roll back Bush's Executive Order Imperialism, which isn't so much a "change" as a healing. That's wonderful of course--but both candidates will do it, so why the fighting?

The two largest groups of infighters in the Dem party are people who want to see a black President versus people who want to see a female President. Of course neither of these groups are a majority, but I'd hazard a guess that if you examine each "side" (Barack supporters vs. Hillary supporters) you'd find that these groups are at least a plurality on their respective "sides". There are few here at DU who would openly admit to supporting Barack/Hillary for those reasons (mostly because the opposition would jump on it and use it to bash) but plenty of them exist even here.

I personally don't think that there's anything wrong with supporting Barack because he's black or Hillary because she's a woman. Both blacks and women are historically oppressed groups. I'd say the people within those groups have suffered enough to have a perfect right to vote based on the hope of seeing "one of their own" in the Oval Office. Goodness knows there isn't enough difference between them policy-wise to make voting based on "policy" an imperative.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
14. plus Hillary is a terribly flawed candidate. you might throw that in there.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
15. I disagree in that
within the party, it was assumed that Clinton would be the inevitable nominee. She had name recognition, was married to a former president, and had a party machinery behind her. What was NOT expected was that an Obama, certainly not the first black candidate, would actually be able to appeal to large percentages of voters well outside of his "expected" demographic. I am in his demographic yet he did not appeal to me initially since early on, he distanced himself from the black community. But then when I got to hear more of what he had to say and understood that what he had to do was extremely difficult in terms of arguing for inclusiveness AND selling that argument in such a way that the Democratic party itself was unable to do (i.e., without insulting whole constituencies by loudly proclaiming like Bill Clinton had done, that the plan was to ignore and even insult their most loyal group in order to gain ground with their privileged demographic), then I gave him a 2nd look. I.e., he spoke to the COMMONALITIES that ALL within the party could agree with.

In reality, when he first started, he had absolutely no chance - what with a known like Clinton and Edwards (especially since Edwards was the first out of the gate with campaigning fully a year before)? Yet his campaign team and strategy, as well as his oratory, managed to capture the attention of Iowa voters and suddenly shifted him into the spotlight. Note that there have been a number of Iowa winners who never went on to get the nomination in the end, but it gives them 15 minutes of fame to put their message out there and Obama managed to do just that. And he then proceeded to barrel across the country and appeal to the dissatisfied and newly energized, winning TWICE as many contests, more delegates, and the popular vote - all despite the silly propaganda that nonsensically argues otherwise.

This has nothing to do with any race or gender. He was given an opportunity and the initial brief time in the spotlight to make his pitch... and he actually made the ultimate use of it and has succeeded.
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