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Obama's shown excellent judgement in his relationship with Wright.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:55 AM
Original message
Obama's shown excellent judgement in his relationship with Wright.
He's taken the good and left the bad. He's still proud of all the good his church has done, and hasn't gotten sucked into the negativity that's come with it.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. agreed
If anyone agrees with every single thing their pastor, preacher, priest, rabbi, or whatever title says, then IMO they become a worshiper of that person and not the deity.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Right, his judgement to sit in the pews for 17 years
and want us to believe he never heard the message shows excellent judgement. :sarcasm:
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Critical thinking.
It's what's for dinner.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. You know...I sat in the pew...
in a Catholic Church all the time the priest was molesting little boys.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
39. And did you cheer him when he did his little dance at the altar
after he scored a good shot in front of the crowd, like a football player prancing after making a touchdown?

No?

Thought not.

Perhaps it's because the priest wasn't doing it in public to general applause, you and your fellow worshippers weren't enthused by the public taking of a boy in some sort of sexual communion. I have to assume that the membership of the Catholic church you went to had a rather different reaction to the priest after they found out what he was doing away from the altar, even as the hierarchy tried to mitigate the PR and legal damage.

Don't know whether BO cheered Wright's divisive, hateful shots or not. But a hefty portion of BO's chosen church-mates did. They're his friends, his fellow travellers in the faith, the community of believers that he is in solidarity with and who he expressed continued loyalty to, as led by his spiritual mentor of nearly 20 years. Unlike the Catholic church, whose parishioners are typically not in solidarity with pedophilia and sexual assaults on minors, this church's parishioners were in solidarity with Wright's speechifying.

BO strikes me not as a parishioner at a Catholic church, but like the bishop would would try mostly to mitigate the fallout from something that he knew was going on for years once it became public. First, ignore it. Second, deny any knowledge of it while putting the guy on administrative leave or forced retirement: such denials usually were very specific and while not false, were fall from honest (e.g. "I received no official reports nor did I observe suspicious behavior myself" ... of course, "this doesn't mean I didn't hear the rumors, counsel some of his victims, or talk with him about them many times" would be equally true, just unsaid). Remind me what the third step usually was, in the media pursued the issue?
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Well I sure hope that
Barack Obama continues to embrace the retired pastor of his church. He has no reason not to. His pastor is a decent man speaking the truth about the experience of a black man's life in a white man's world. It is interesting that you can manage to equate the preacher speaking the truth to the priest raping a boy. Sick.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. So a big part of this is that you don't like the style of black preachers...
isn't it?

"did his little dance at the altar"?

How condescending.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. Putting Wright on his campaign team was another display of great judgment
Just the kind of calm, soft-spoken, factual (whites gave AIDS to blacks, gd America), etc., kind of guy you want on your team to show unity.

:sarcasm:
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Again, you take the good and leave the bad...
and what's the problem?

We can all distinguish the damaging parts of the YouTube. We can pour through 30 more hours of footage and find more. You have to admit, it's at least thought-provoking. We can also find tons of wise, inspirational and useful stuff.

Yay for critical thinking!
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. No, you look at the candidates objectively.
Obama has some real and major problems coming out here. Judgment isn't his strong suit, is it?
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. It is the lying that gets me. Obama lies about Wright / Rezko
And his lies are ignored. It is unreasonable to not know what a 20 year Mentor says and spouts. Mentor...get it? He uses him for guidance.

Now, the double standard: When Clinton took the good and threw away the bad with WalMart you all said she was evil. Give her the same benefit of the doubt you give him.

Backwards and in high heels.
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. ...
:applause:
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. ...

:applause:
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think this shows a good deal of his
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:03 AM by madaboutharry
personality. He is not an all or nothing person. He does not see the world the way Bush does or a lot of others, both republican and democrat, as black or white. I don't intend any puns here, I think you all know what I am saying. For instance, with Bush there is no gray and no middle. I think the way that Obama has explained this shows he is a man who sees the world in grays and is a man who can see things as others do. I respect him for it.

On edit: David Gergen addressed this issue in the most reasonable way with Anderson Cooper last night. (Sorry I don't have a link).
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Or to put it another way, when confronted with an upleasant reality,
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:58 AM by Benhurst
Obama folds like a cheap suit.

I think the Wright problem in itself would not have been such an issue if Obama had run as what he is, a successful Chicago politician in every sense of the word, and not as Saint Barack, the spokesman for "New Politics," ill-defined "Hope" and "Change". Such "inspirational" cotton-candy campaigns based on personality set the goalpost so high as to almost guarantee what is beginning to unfold now.

Clinton could weather a Rezko better than Obama because people have grown used to the shady characters surrounding our former first family.

Saint Barack however is prone to being fatally wounded by the drip, drip, drip of stories about Wright, Rezko and God only knows whatever else may follow.

Being vetted is often painful, but it prevents what is taking place now with Obama in the middle of a campaign.

On the bright side, if Obama does go on to get the nomination, the more that comes out now, the less Rove will have to blindside us with in the general election. I'd rather defend against Rove's lies, than be forced to minimize unpleasant truths.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. "because people have grown used to the shady characters surrounding our former first family. "
There it is.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. And it will take time to get used to the shady characters surrounding
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 12:46 PM by Benhurst
Obama, especially given his cotton-candy rhetoric and a campaign based on vague catch-words such as "Hope" and "Change" and on the cult of personality, a personality yet to be vetted, at that.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. "because people have grown used to the shady characters surrounding our former first family. "
Fact vs. conjecture.

To which one do you give the most credence?
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Well, there is a lot of conjecture out there about the Clintons that
is accepted as fact. And there's a lot of conjecture about Obama that is looking more and more like fact. His free ride which started with his conservative speech to the Convention in 2004 (highly praised by the National Review) looks as though it is coming to an end.

As a native of Illinois who still owns property there, I was an early supporter of Obama in his run for the U.S. Senate. To say I have been disappointed by his record is an understatement, starting with my "war opponent" candidate's voting to affirm a war criminal as Secretary of State. With few exceptions so far, he has failed to deliver on the promise so many of us thought he had. I never in my wildest dreams would have thought he would vote for the renewal of the so-called "Patriot" Act. And his constant and continued support for funding of the Iraq war belies his early stand against it.

So, despite his coming out against the Iraq war before he ran for the U.S. Senate -- not all that brave a political move for a state senator representing the kind of district he did-- there really hasn't been all that much difference between Clinton's and Obama's records.

We're down to Tweedle De and Twedle Dum, both considered great choices by Harold Ford, jr. of the DLC, but both leaving much to be desired as far as I am concerned.

And the more that comes out about Obama's relationship with Rezko, revised yet again ( see http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obamafu... )the more disillusioned I become.




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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I'll leave you with the last word:
Clinton could weather a Rezko better than Obama because people have grown used to the shady characters surrounding our former first family.

-Benhurst 3/15/08

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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. LOL!
But I fear we won't have time to grow used to the shady characters surrounding Barack Obama during the McCain administration.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Obama's claim that he was unaware of said sermons is beyond the pale of truth.
This is far from over. Quite possibly a fatal blow for his campaign. gobama.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well, the BAD sure as Hell stuck to Michelle..
She oozes racism whenever she's interviewed.. She can't help herself!
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. There will be MUCH more in regard to Michelle.
Some writings of hers will prove even more damaging. Watch for them...soon.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I've read her pitiful thesis on the "Racial Divide"
was right out of the Wright Playbook.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Trust me , that thesisis only the tip of the dirty iceberg.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
43. And they expect us to defend him if he is the nominee?
Obama supporters are falling all over themselves as it is.. thinking if they shout you down with insults and foul language... they're winners! JMJ...
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. Yes I read it too. Pitiful is a good term to describe it.
Also lots of anger there and I think she has never gotten over that anger, from some of her recent statements.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. I can't wait!!
I love good authors.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. Let it come out now while there is still another Democratic candidate
in the picture. Better now than September.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #34
44. It's out.. Google for it!
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MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I've read elsewhere that it was really Michelle who put them there
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. I think you got some of it on you.
Better wash up.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. He said he's known about them for about a year. n/t
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. why would that be unbelievable? My mom and dad told me that
when our preacher said not to vote for FDR because he was catholic, they got up and left. I wasn't there. I didn't hear it. Given his schedule, it is a dead cert that he could have missed them. Otherwise, why give Clinton a pass about her assertion that she had intense hands on with nearly every national security thingo in the 90's. Take all of them at their word or none of them. Anything else is hypocracy and partisanship.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Proud... yeah, thus the rejection of his pastor...
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. No. Not rejection...
Strongly disagreed with some of the things the man said. Also, Obama said he would not "denounce" him, as he thought of him as an Uncle who sometimes said things he disagreed with. At least he's not a Catholic Priest messing around with little white boys.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yes as Wright stands against social injustice don't we all here. Although he
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 12:29 PM by barack the house
mostly likely is insulted by his remarks as Obama is half white so was right to disavow.
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. I admire his strength to constantly deal w/ the damn if you do/don't
situation he is constantly having to face.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. and he does it so succinctly...
meanwhile, we're here doing backflips trying to get the same point across that he does in 30-seconds.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. His judgement is just fine. Again, it's not like there is any practical effect on an Obama
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. well put.
and any "fear of a black planet" that this conjurs is either fake or irrational.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. I like Obama a little more because Wright was his minister
Unfortunately, the US has become a nation where reason, context, and discussion has been replaced by sound bites and black & white (non)thinking. And people wonder how an idiot like bush* was able to get enough votes to make both sElections close. I think I'll re-read The Assault On Reason to keep my head from exploding.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. It's called "The Media Stupid"...
And I would hope the people are getting some buyer's remorse from the m$$$m.
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