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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:51 AM
Original message
Scarey Black Men...keep your daughters inside America!
So, we have a very angry black preacher who, unfortunately, often speaks the truth but also goes over the top. What interested me watching him preach was the reaction of his congregation. Elderly black women, elderly black men nodding and clapping. Not very threatening folks and they seemed to agree with him. Could it be that this country has a brutal past when it comes to minorities? Noooo! None of us want to hear that. We are past that, except we're not.

Enter calm, composed, thoughtful, gentle Black candidate for President. The guy never seems to get angry, shrill or flustered. This is no good. We can't allow someone like this to gain the Presidency. He's black, after all, that should count against him, shouldn't it? And he's not angry. We can't seem to goad him into anger...he's unflappable, damn.

So let's reach back into the darkest reaches of America's past and haul out and dust off that tried and true boogeyman: "Black men are angry, dangerous and will rape your women". We have to treck way back to the days when black men and boys could not look a white woman in the eye or they'd be hanged. This is good! Almost like all Arabs are terrorists...that has worked. After all, the American people respond to fear.

So we make the Preacher the boogeyman and tie him around the neck of the calm, composed, thoughtful, gentle Black candidate. And, by the miracle of the constant association of the angry black Preacher with the calm, composed, thoughtful, gentle black candidate, we have the scarey black man running for President.

Question: Will the American people take the bait?
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. The more it is framed that way to protect Obama...
...the more it will hurt him, imo.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. n/t
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BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Calling whites racist does not tend to make them vote for you.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. I think a lot of people tune out when racism comes up
IMO, it's better to deal with the plain substance.

I understand the frustration or even outrage at the underlying narrative, but there's probably little to be done about that, though. :(
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. America has taken the bait before...
for associations far more trivial than this one
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. You've got it - Phase 2 of the southern . . oops . . PA strategy
And if Clinton does get the nod somehow, the other shoe will drop when the 'liberal media' reveals, around September, that the Clinton campaign pushed this story, to maximize the damage to the Democratic Party.

As Ye Sow, So Shall Ye Reap

. . just channeling . .
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. It was McCain - according to the NYTimes
This mess is Obama's own. Nothing to do with Hillary. Once it's out there no campaign needs to push it. It has a life all its own.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I was not pointing a finger at any candidate because I think Wright
is hard to miss. It's Wright's mess and now Obama's problem. My post was directed at all of us.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Agreed on that.
.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Why now then? If it was McCain, they would have held it until Sept.
for maximum benefit.

And as for being 'out there', the media has known about Wright for months, why are they pushing it now?

And as for "This mess is Obama's own." Why?
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Ask them. But this story will last
Lots of steam left for the fall.
Meanwhile it feeds the internecine squabble and makes McCain look better.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. Sez you...yawn
Obama-haters always seem to know what's happening in the future, but somehow it always seem to change before it actually arrives. Obama was going down in flames once the voting started1 It was all over after New Hampshire! South Carolina was his last win! It would nend on Super Tuesday! He would implode as people knew more about him! Clinton would bury him forever in Texas and Ohio! The Rezko trial would bring his campaign to a screeching halt!
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RazBerryBeret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. The GOP
may be "testing" how far they can go in their criticisms in the fall.
how far they can push the American Public. in the fall it would be pinned on them, now it's anyone's game...
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Very good point! God, I hope the people see through this...both
the racism and the sexism. We have a "let them eat cake" President...his party just has to go!

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RazBerryBeret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Exactly! but I'm concerned
because I remember how I felt in '04"there's no way anyone will vote for that buffoon again, he barely won in 2000, we can't be that stupid." I really thought the GOP didn't have a chance. but then, look what happened. and I live in Ohio, and I'm sure it wasn't all above board.

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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
43. Yet it was MCCain who has a hatemonger scary white preacher
named Hagee backing HIM, and not much from the media on this.

No I agree, this is the tone going forward whether Hillary started it or not, it just IS.
It's not as if we hadn't expected it. Or planned for it. :evilgrin:
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Answer:
Yes.

One of the things I like best about Obama is his ability to keep a cool head. I wish I were as good at that as he is. Just wait till he debates the hotheaded McCain after the conventions -- he'll mop up the floor with him. But will that be enough when the "fear card" is once again played on the gullible American public? I fear it may not be.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. EXACTAMUNDO well said.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. The campaign was so much more fun when we were going after the 'scary privileged white woman'.
I didn't hear any cries to stop the madness when she was the one at the end of the rope.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. so you admit she's privileged?
I thought she was a victim...
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. No, you sure didn't hear any cries about it.....n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. And good morning to you too! Nice, constructive, civil post!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Deleted message
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. What are you talking about?
That was a bizarre rant if I ever read one.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. Answer: Dumb, racist Americans will.

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. Yes but they weren't going to vote for a Democrat anyway n/t
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. I just don't get the big deal
I told my husband last night - all this faux outrage just makes me want to pack the boys up and drive in to the city on Sunday to attend the church in support. We're UU, and certainly our church is more accepting of "controversial" lifestyles and crossover religions. I also grew up in a bigoted fundy church. The hate that spewed from that pulpit still makes my stomach turn - which is in good party why I'm UU today. The hate in my uncle's church is no where near the level of what I saw from Wright. And furthermore, as a white woman - I agree with much of what Wright said, or could at least understand the context.
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WitchyWoman57 Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
18. That's ridiculous.
So let's reach back into the darkest reaches of America's past and haul out and dust off that tried and true boogeyman: "Black men are angry, dangerous and will rape your women".

You're way over the top suggesting that that's the reason this pastor and Obama's relationship with him is being scrutinized. His rhetoric is quite vitriolic and racist. If he is, indeed, Obama's "mentor" as Obama himself has said, then this must be looked into. I don't like hearing someone say "God damn American" and "USKKK of America", and I certainly don't want a president who also believes those things. A loud, blustering, hate-monger is a lot less dangerous than someone with the same beliefs but who presents himself as "calm, gentle, and unflappable."
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Sorry, but I think that is exactly what's happening here. Awhile back
an attempt was made to tie Obama to some black militants...same strategy. And, I think, by now, Obama has stated very clearly that he does not share Wright's beliefs. I guess you can choose not to believe him but I can't find anything in his life that indicates he has such beliefs. And with respect to his churchgoing: I don't think that all churchgoing Catholics support the many horrendous positions of the Catholic Church (I'm Catholic so don't flame me).
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WitchyWoman57 Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. Not quite the same...
I don't think that all churchgoing Catholics support the many horrendous positions of the Catholic Church (I'm Catholic so don't flame me).

But if you said that the Pope was a close friend of twenty years and your mentor, I'd have a hard time believing that, and an even harder time believing that you had no idea he held those horrendous positions. Obama didn't just say he disagrees with Wright on these issues. He said he never heard him say those things.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. Can't find anything that indicates he has such beliefs?
How about 20 years supporting that church with his time and money? How about Wright being his personal mentor? Who in their right mind would sit and listen to that shit for years if they didn't agree with it? I certainly wouldn't....I walked out of a church for a racist remark made back in 1970. I got up and walked out all by myself which took a bit of courage for a 17 year old girl. Does Obama not have the courage of his convictions? Either he agrees or he's a weenie who has no conviction and he's nothing but a bunch of empty words.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. white supremacist Ron Paul was savaged for the same comments
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:30 AM by Kurt_and_Hunter
White man Bill Mahr was summarily fired for the same comments

If you think it's simple racism that leads a large number of people to object to that line on 9/11 (however accurate it is) then there is nothing you are unwilling to attribute to simple racism.

I happen to agree with the 9/11 line, but I'm not mystified as to why it doesn't play well, and don't require race as an explanation of why it doesn't play well.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I think you may have missed a part of the point of my post.
I was not condoning what Wright said although some of what he said I do agree with. I was attempting to point out that if you tie Wright around Obama's neck like an albatross, and you put Wright's words into Obama's mouth, you have the "angry black man". And if you want to portray him that way, there is a path available to do it.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. Accepted... I was probably not being fair
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 05:12 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
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Rene Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. That entire congregation was responding to that awful rhetoric.
That wasn't the first time T'm sure. Exactly what did Obama sit thru and listen to for t w e n t y years?
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Nia Zuri Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. BECAUSE IT'S TRUE...maybe awful for you to hear...but try living it
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
27. Well said. K & R.
Yep, you got it right, Raven.

I'd like to think we are all better than this, but the fact that it is on my TV means some of us aren't. Some of us didn't learn a thing from Dr King, Frederick Douglass, or anyone else that ever spoke truth to power.

Makes me ill.



Laura
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
29. eew metaphorrical lynching imagery. it's a shame obama himself stuck is neck out
and then you trot out Mandingo bullshit about rape? i have to laugh- poor barak is a victim of sexism too, now, eh? LOL.

It's 9/11 stupid, and as a New Yorker, it's not cool to blame those victims, period. Never will be.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Well if you believe the "official story" chickens came home to roost on 9/11
it doesn't make what the terrorist did right, but it is certainly a more realistic explanation than "they hate us for our freedoms"

Nobody "blamed the victims" certainly not the actual individuals who died in the attacks, but recognizing the failures of our violent and oppressive foreign policy is not the same thing as attacking or "blaming the victims"

I know that 9/11 is a huge blind-spot for most people - particularly New Yorkers - but it didn't just happen out of thin air. It happened (again if you believe the official story) because Arabs resent our constant interference in their ability to LIVE THEIR LIVES. We've perpetrated 9/11 hundreds of times over on Arabs and Muslims throughout the world, and we're supposed to believe that THEY ALWAYS deserve it but we NEVER can (again I'm talking about our country as a whole and not individual victims).
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. you can't say "we deserved it" because it's political suicide to do so.
didn;t need the history lesson, but maybe you need a lesson in reading the zeitgiest. this shit is not going to fly.
it's poisonous to BO.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I know what zeitgeist is and I'm not going to kowtow because the zeitgeist
got us into Iraq, and the zeitgeist is what has led to our 20th century record of interference in other countries.

Besides, it takes a little bit of creative interpretation to say that Wright literally said we "deserved" 9/11. What he said was that it was a wake-up call for white-America. While I don't think that "white America" is the be-all and end-all of our problems, the ruling class is (without a doubt) majority white.

I understand and agree with what Wright was saying. His formulation was fairly inflammatory and not PC, but for Democrats to give the Republican attack machine traction by getting overly exercised about his comments is almost as damaging as what the Republican attack machine will eventually do.

I for one see virtually no difference between the concern trolls here, and the attack trolls on other side. They both advance the same message even if the motivations behind it are (allegedly) different.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. he has to toss aside people who actually "agitate" because the gen pop finds them so distateful,
this pandering thing is not new, just this time it's clear he cares about who he's tossing under the bus. Unlike the GBLTs he mowed down earlier this year. And those boomers who were pesky radicals in the 60's.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. So on the one hand he has to pander to the popular zeitgeist
and on the other hand it's offensive?

It seems to me that you are just searching for whatever albatross you can to hang around his neck and don't care the least about consistency.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. actually, i'm just pointing out he's just as phony- and flip floppy as the rest of them
he's no better,
the change thing is bullshit. it's image, and it's self serving. like his vote for the SC justice- totally self serving.
that's why i like him no better than hil. same old same old.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. I will grant you that Obama panders, and attempts to stay away from controversy
just like John Edwards and Hillary Clinton, but I can't say that they are all equal, because Hillary has a record of support for the Iraq war, and of embracing right-wing talking points. All the candidates are (of course) politicians - to VARYING degrees. They are not "all the same" and they are not "all equal" Hillary has a record of voting for the IWR and other right-wing agenda items. Obama has a similar record, but not to the EXTENT that Hillary does. That is enough for me. I'm not blinded by Obama's cult of personality. I'm simply following my own hope for change, and that starts by punishing the worst offenders. If I could have voted for DK I would have, but I only have two options left, and following my "worst offenders" theory, I voted for the one who has had less time to be buffeted and smoothed by the pressures of the spineless and inoffensive GOP PC Dem establishment, and that is Obama.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. but BO has embraces RW points too, he has shown nothing to prove- won;t even claim he'd have voted
against the IWR. I think it;s hilarious that his supporters point to that. Something he might have not did. He would have been extroidenary to have voted agaisnt it, there's just nothing in his career that points to him showing that kind of forsight or tht much guts, He's very much a go along to get along kinda guy. But people fill in his blank spaces with their hopes and dreams.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I guess nothing is certain about how he would have voted on the IWR
but he spoke out against it. Hillary hedged her bets. She DID vote for the IWR. Considering the fact that he spoke out against it, I think those who think he would have voted for it are speculating more than those who think he wouldn't have.

In any case as I have already stated, I'm basing my vote on actions not speculations. Hillary voted for the IWR and Barack spoke out against it. Speculative secret feelings aside that is enough for me. I am punishing Hillary for her vote because I fell THAT strongly. She made a stupid mistake, whatever the reasons.

Barack doesn't have that on his record. To excuse that vote on the basis of "Barack might have maybe if" is just to much spin and disingenuousness to me. To me it is as much a message to you and other Dems as it is to Hillary. Certain actions are not tolerable. They can be forgiven - to some extent - but I won't be one of those who forgets them.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. We are headed down a slippery slope. It is not just Obama or Wright they are painting with
their brush. It won't turn out well unless cooler heads prevail, and Obama won't be the one who suffers. America will suffer.

I don't suppose this bothers Hillary, tho, if she thinks it paves her way to the nomination. She'll throw the entire black community and their heritage under the bus.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
41. If DU is any measure, yes, it will.
:puke:
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
47. American people are unfortunately easily distracted
If they are able to concentrate on the larger issues confronting us in this election, stories on a candidate's pastor would easily be overshadowed by the important problems this country is facing. But maybe that's giving people too much credit. First the rumors circulated that Obama was a Muslim, and now he's a Christian but his pastor is too fiery and controversial. Anything to distract people from what is at stake in the election. It's Obama and not his pastor who is running for office.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
49. "..let's reach back into the darkest reaches of America's past": WHO is bringing up past injustices?
I think it is not the HRC campaign.
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