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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:50 AM
Original message
Campaign could undo Democratic Party
<snip>

The early sniping between Obama and Clinton has given rise to more caustic talk by one about the other. And this increasingly testy talk between the candidates has spawned the very controversial and divisive things that Clinton surrogate Geraldine Ferraro and Obama supporter Samantha Power recently said.

All of this has exposed the existence of a win-at-any-cost attitude in both campaigns that undermines the claim to party leadership by Clinton and Obama and strongly suggests the two sides won't be able to come together behind the eventual nominee.

Already there is polling evidence suggesting a significant share of the supporters of the Democrat who fails to win their party's nomination will either not vote in the general election, or will back the Republican presidential candidate. This will not only doom the chances of a black or woman becoming this nation's next president, it also may cause Democrats to lose control of the U.S. Senate and see its hold on the House of Representatives weakened.

That's the road Democrats are now traveling. They are hurtling toward self-destruction and if they don't find a way to change direction soon, the great promise of this election will become the undoing of the Democratic Party.

http://www.baxterbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID...

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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks to Senator Clinton...
She needs to drop out after PA.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You help prove the OP. I say Obama should drop out. The party is severed.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. party will survive cutting hillary loose. shes just a brand name and convenient
people feel comfortable with brand names, but this shouldnt be confused with genuine support.

not too many her very much..
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NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. Fuck that...let Hilda drop out..she's losing..
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Obama is in the lead
Clinton's lack of realization is whats toxic here. No one in touch with reality would suggest that the front runner drop out. The only solution is for her to do her duty to the party.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. As do you. You're already on record saying you won't vote for Obama
if he's the nominee.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. We'll still have a few months to cool down...
after we have a nominee.

But the sooner the better.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. I hope both focus on issues only and all surrogates shut-up!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. good warming from this article. thanks for the post.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. REC
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Kokonoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. News Flash: Hillary is setting up an Independent run
How many will follow
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. enough to put McCain in the White House
but that may well happen anyway
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Newsflash: You're Deluded.
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Kokonoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. Lets hope so
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. That's Why I Say You're Deluded.
There's no reason to hope. The concept is absurd on it's face. To need to 'hope' so shows a belief that there is a more than likely chance she would do so, or hope would not be necessary. But that's not the case. In fact, the suggestion is nothing short of delusional.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. McCain is in the right place at the right time
If Obama is out the black voters may well be to bitter to vote for Hillary

If Hillary is out the white voters, at a larger percentage than previously polled (20% by Pew Research) will not vote for Obama

Waiting until the convention to decide this will insure the party doesn't have time to heal before the GE, if it is even possible

It is looking like a lose/lose situation, I bet Pelosi is pissed
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thank "your gal" Hillary for that.
I know many of my friends will not support "your gal" in the fall.

The Democrats, as usual, are grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.

Way to go, guys!
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Many of my friends thank 'your guy' for this and won't vote for him in the fall.
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NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Majority of my friends and family would never ever vote for Hillary..they are planning on skipping
the prez vote if she's the nom..

Let's say it all together: President McCain..
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Only the front runner has the luxury of staying in.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Why mention your friends when you've said it yourself?
:shrug:
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Nice to meet you Pot, says the kettle.
:hi:
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Nice try, kettle, but no dice.
Typical "I know you are but what am I" response.

You're on record saying you won't vote for Obama if he's the nominee, so why didn't you add yourself to your list of people not voting Obama, rather than just mention your friends? What's the big deal? :shrug:
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. goldcanyonaz, I know you are a strong supporter of "your gal."
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:13 AM by Nedsdag
but I know many people, black, white, and hispanic, who will not vote for her.

I cannot see how anyone will vote for her. Young people will sit, African Americans--and don't stick your head in the sand, sister gal--will sit this one out as well.

Face reality my friend.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. Self delete.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:19 AM by Nedsdag
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. And I know many people who voted for Hillary but won't support Obama.
Way to go... Really.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. People from both camps need to grow up... I will vote for the nominee, period.
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NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. Hillary can't get elected without the black vote and Obama can't get elected without the white vote
Let's all say it together now:

PRESIDENT MCCAIN!!!
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
26. It seems everyone in the media WANTS this to happen...but I doubt it.
Change is inevitable.
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
27. The Ship Has Sailed
Who are the most reliable, dedicated Democratic voters?
Since the 1930s, which voters have never wavered in their support of the Party?

African-Americans.

The latest attempt to attack the black church in America shows the life-imperiling danger now facing the Democratic Party.

If the Clintonites thought that going after Obama's minister would somehow damage Barack, they made a big, big blunder.

The African-American community is probably more invested in the Obama candidacy than ever before.

This is very simple -- for the Democrats, the ship has sailed -- Obama has to be the nominee or the nomination will be worthless.

If there is even the perception that Clinton(s) has stolen or unfairly wrestled away the nomination from Obama, then Democrats are doomed. Black voters staying home out of cynicism and disgust will cost the Democrats the presidency and control of both the House and Senate.

Barack is ahead in every category of measurement for the nomination. Clinton(s) continuation in the race is becoming more destructive every single day now.

Repeat: it is very simple. Clinton(s) needs to end her campaign and become a stateswoman in the unity process. If she keeps going and gets a win in Pennsylvania, then the divisions will get deeper again. What happens in the next week or so will probably tell the tale ... and it is all up to Clinton(s).
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. Let's ignore pointing fingers for a second and consider the ramifications
the two party system has evolved into two power bases that think "to the victor belongs the spoils"

The Constitution did not envision huge political parties where that the electorate had to make a binary decision. The concept was that We The People, with varying self-interests, would elect representative to go to the capital (originally Philadelphia) and "In Congress Assembled" (congress="come together") work out policies and regulations to serve the collective good. An administrator would be selected by a specially-selected group of "electors" to lead the bureaucracy which enforces those laws passed by the people's representatives.

That elegantly-designed system is in shambles. Now we choose a party to run the congress and participate in continuous foodfights and we choose a "unitary executive" to make up whatever rules he/she wants.

The best thing that could happen to this country would be a collapse of BOTH parties as they now exist. It has to be both, or else the one that stays together wins it all. If there were representatives of four parties in congress, and the "majority party rule" were scrapped, and the presidential powers were seriously downgraded to what was originally envisioned, then maybe we could get back to a government "of the people."

I'm thinking the Progressive wing of the current Dem party would be a nice home. Might be able to keep the name, even - it has a nice definition:

democratic:
"3: relating to, appealing to, or available to the broad masses of the people
4: favoring social equality : not snobbish"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democratic
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