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Will Pastorgate push superdelegates to Hillary?

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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:53 AM
Original message
Will Pastorgate push superdelegates to Hillary?
I've seen no sign of it yet. One wonders whether this story will influence party insiders at all. If anything the story subtly--if implicitly--gives credence to Hillary's argument that Obama isn't ready for primetime; that he hasn't been vetted enough, that he can't handle attacks etc.

What say YOU? At this stage, I still firmly believe Obama will become the nominee (because the alternative--having Clinton win the nomination despite not receiving the popular vote and pledged delegate majority--would spell disaster, especially with black voters). I am open-minded, though, and could see a scenario wherein Hillary, should she net a double-digit victory in PA, and narrow the gap in the overall popular vote tally with the "pastor story" still in the ethos, really make a damn convincing argument to SDs that she is the best bet in a general election. I wouldn't hold it against her at all. I'm an Obama supporter through and through, but his apparent inability to win a rust-belt state, and the ever increasing hatchet jobbery by the media has muted my enthusiasm about his electability.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. We'll have to wait and see.
If the Wright thing tanks Obama over the next couple of weeks, you could see a shift of SDs to Hillary.
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well that's an easy one
Hillary supporters will call for Obama to drop out, Obama supporters will say it won't impact him or his campaign.

I still believe in Obama and the fight to bring change to our country.
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle
No he shouldn't drop out, and no to the idea that it won't impact his campaign.
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sorrybushisfromtexas Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. You know that Right Wing Smear Tactics
shouldn't hurt with any of his true supporters, but I believe that we will see him come and strong about the swiftboating tactics of the right and of Hillary's campaign. Will it hurt, yes, will it cripple the campaign no.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. I doubt it.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. The cable news channels are taking his words apart now
finding it hard to believe he didn't know after 20 years in the church that this was being said until he started running for POTUS.

Problem is if they do give the nomination to Hillary the black voters may not follow.

No dem can win in November without that vote.
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Clinton-Obama?
I'm more amenable to the idea than I was a week ago, that's for sure.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. I think Pelosi put the kabash on that idea earlier this week
saying we would have a dream ticket, just not with these two names on it together....and then something about because Hillary had endorsed Mc Cain over Obama

That was before this broke, now:

If Obama loses his support among the white voters over this, he will sink the ticket as well. The voters will not elect him for next in line to the presidency.
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Diasagree. He has to be there in order to drive black vote.
And to keep younger voters.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I agree only if he doesn't lose the support of white voters
and if he doesn't then he doesn't need to share the ticket with Hillary
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well if he doesn't, then he WOULD need to, right?
Hillary would need him badly (for the aforementioned reasons).
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:17 AM
Original message
yes, but damn this has gotten so divided I don't know if it would work
not sure who peolsi had in mind
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NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
36. Yep..No way a Dem can win without the black vote...
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
62. I find it hard to believe
that each and every sermon given by Wright for 20 yrs has the same language...maybe you can go online and purchase all the sermons and go through them...just to see.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. I think the superdelegates know a real scandal when they see one.
And this is bullshit. If they think they are going to reject a candidate based on his attending a typical black church and get black support in the Fall, good luck with that.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. they want to win, if Obama's support dwindles they have no choice
How many times in the recent past has BS sunk a candidate?
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. You're not going to see a significant change in Obama's support.
And I'm curious as to exactly when BS has sunk a candidate. Name an example. I'm willing to bet the candidate was either weak to begin with or didn't fight it.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. you are right, Kerry didn't fight it fast enough or hard enough
there already has been some loss from those middle supporters, but the polls next week will tell
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. Please Don't Be So Naive. It Has Nothing To Do With That.
It all comes down to one thing: Electability. If they feel that this brings too much risk in the GE and that the ads, emails, slanders about it won't go away and would continue to spread and damage him, then they'd give the nom to Hillary in a heartbeat. It would have nothing to do with his attending a black church, and all to do with being too closely connected to incendiary statements that would turn a whole lot of people off to him.

Electability. Was this a mortal wound or merely a flesh wound? Time will tell, and that's all the SD's will care about.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. If they think they are going to take the nomination from a black man
for going to a typical black church and will still be able to count on the black vote, they can forget it. That's the bottom line on electability.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Wow. Could You Have The Situation Any More Wrong? Holy Cow.
Obviously, continuing this conversation with you if you're going to take that skewed of a tangent and are that off the path of reality, would be utterly useless. Good luck with all that.

:crazy:
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Good luck with winning in November if you piss off black America
Oh wait, the Clintons already did that with their damning with faint praise of Obama and Martin Luther King. Hillary can't win.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. They'll Turnout Just Fine.
I know that'll bother the hell out of you, because you'd so badly want to see Hillary lose just to prove some point that doesn't exist and to help quell your bitterness, but it ain't gonna work out like that for ya. She'll do just fine with them. Sorry!
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I will support the Democratic nominee even if it is Hillary.
And shame on you for suggesting that I would want a war nut like McCain to be president over Hillary.

If the Democratic establishment wrests the nomination from Obama, you can expect a rightful backlash from the black community, who have been taken for granted again and again.

The sad thing is that you actually believe that people will support the Democratic Party because they have nowhere else to go. That's a recipe for poor turnout and a loss, and it's also incredibly insulting.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Wrong.
I believe they will support the Democratic Party because it's in their best interest to do so, and because they aren't stupid. I think the insinuation that the majority of blacks won't turn out just because they're bitter, is completely deluded and is an attack on their character, since it implies that they will all turn childish and not be adult enough to still vote their best interests and do the right thing. I think it implies they're not bright or mature enough to do that, and I take offense to it. I don't think people realize that's what they're saying when they make such claims.

I'm confident the black vote will turn out just fine (though of course there will be some who stay home) and I'm not scared of that whatsoever. I have more faith in them as it relates to their ability to do the right thing, move forward, and not be consumed with bitterness, than some others have I guess.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. It's not a matter of being consumed by bitterness.
It's about being rejected. Having one of their own be told, "Sorry, you're not good enough to be President, maybe next time." Only a fool would bet the White House on that working out well.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I Say You're Wrong, And I Say I Have More Than Enough Faith In Them Having The Ability To Do The
right thing. You don't. Well hurrah for you. But I know they'll turn out just fine.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #41
48. I expect the superdelegates to do the right thing and moot your point. n/t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Right Now, Depending On How Pastergate Runs Its Course, The Right Thing Might Be For Them To Go To
Hillary. Too early to tell at this point, but if this turns out to be a deep enough wound, then thank god we have SD's that can save us in that situation.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. But if there were no superdelegates, Hillary would have quit by now and
this would be a nonissue.

No matter, better that this airs now than later. When Obama comes out of this, he'll be unstoppable.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. But If The Sun Would've Exploded Into A Huge Fireball Many Moons Ago, None Of Us Would Be Here.
Your if was all sorts of silly.

Hey... Reality calling... SD's exist... They do so for good reason... Thank God for that...
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. It was a direct response to your, "Thank God we have superdelegates."
As if God had something to do with it. But I'm the one who's silly. :D
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. And Your Direct Response Was Ridiculous. If, If, If, If. Guess What, I Like Reality.
In our reality, superdelegates do in fact exist. In reality, I'm quite thankful of that.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. You'll be less thankful when they bounce Hillary back to Capitol Hill. n/t
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Would Barack in the VP slot assuage you?
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. I'm voting Democrat no matter what.
But Obama can't be the VP because the only way he can be unseated as the nominee is if he is disqualified for the Presidency by character assassination, whether real or imagined. That also disqualifies him for the vice presidency.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Says who?
I know quite a few African Americans who WILL NOT vote for Hillary in November if she is the nominee, especially because of her treatment of Obama.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. And I Know Ten Times More Who Will.
Thank god this election doesn't come down to the few people you know.

:rofl:
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Keep laughing my friend.
We all know the Republicans will have the last laugh come November.

Many African American Democrats are sick and tired of being taken for granted by the Democratic Party. They'll either sit this one out or vote third party.

You won't be doing much laughing when McCain takes the Oath of Office.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. Yeah Yeah Yeah, Sky Is Falling, Blah Blah Blah.
God there's nothing that makes me want to vomit more than doom and gloom defeatists.

Don't worry yourself. We'll be justtttt fine. :hi:
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. See, this is what we mean when we say Obama is not a "uniter"
Understand what you are saying? Only if blacks are mollified can they get the democratic vote? This is exactly the reason why I was upset when black supporters started leaving the Clintons. It was a rovian plot to divide the democrats, and I believe, de facto proof that Obama is a threat to everything that has been accomplished in the past forty years, and there have been accomplishments. Maybe these accomplishments don't go far enough, but, neither do the accomplishments of women's rights go far enough.

"Would we like to start all over again?" I personally feel it's a real accomplishment to go to any restaurant in my fair city and see blacks eating with whites and vice versa. It is an accepted fact that a black family can move into my neighborhood and, for the most part, be welcomed. I could name many things, like the enormous rise in college enrollment for blacks and women. The accomplishments are many and mostly unnamed here. It appears to me that we are slitting our own throats here with an Obama or nothing mentality. So, be it. Women will not back down from the first real shot we have had at the Presidency, and I suspect that TPTB are expecting just such a reaction.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. It was a Rovian plot when Hillary said MLK's achievements needed LBJ's validation?
Or when Bill Clinton implied that Obama's victory in South Carolina was no more significant than Jesse Jackson's?

The Clintons did this to themselves. They thought that if they polarized the race into black versus white, they win. Unfortunately for them, a lot of white Democrats saw through it and were disgusted, and Hillary was already behind.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
8. Most of the states that Hillary won will go Dem
in the fall anyway. They always have.
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Some of them (see Michigan), narrowly do. And McCain is a different kind of candidate.
He isn't a good ole boy who turns off some rust-belters. He has a general appeal in these areas. PA, OH, MI will be bigtime fights.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
11.  Will MoonieGate push superdelegates to Obama? n/t
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. I don't think the superdelegates will judge him lest they be judged themselves.
At least, that would be the Christian thing to do.

:evilgrin:
rocknation
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. Is it the Political thing to do?
Remember they are looking at those seats that are down ticket as well.

Winning is their only priority
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
15. They will wait till the polls start turning... they are in a holding pattern.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
17. Most of them are smart enough to recognize right wing race baiting.
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
61. hmm
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
21. It Very Well Might. No Way To Tell Right Now. But You Know That Sick Pit In Your Gut You Were
feeling last night seeing all this go down, and seeing him have to defend? Well, they had that pit too, except maybe 10 times worse.

Only time will tell right now how much damage, if any at all, this will end up doing to him. It sucks, cause I'd love to just know today that everything will be ok in that arena, but it might take weeks till we truly know. Hopefully, they'll tire of the story and it will just fizzle out.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. the most important part is the timing
I'd be nauseous if this stuff had happened the day before the PA primary or before the November election.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
22. I think we should get rid of the super-delegates all together.
It is an elitist concept and has no place in a democratic, progressive party.



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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. They Serve A Quite Valuable Purpose. In Fact, This Recent Obama Thing Proves It.
What if this thing continues to grow? What if it was a mortal wound? What if polls showed that he started losing a ton of support and was weakened, and there was reason to believe there'd be no way for him to win in the GE? What if he still won enough of the votes that Hillary still couldn't overcome the pledged gap and turned out to be the nominee anyway? Would it be the best thing for our party to have a mortally wounded and almost certainly unelectable candidate starting off the GE right out of the gate? Nahhhh, cause that would be really, really, stupid.

But that's why SD's are there to begin with. To PROTECT our interests and help to ensure that we send the right candidate to the GE. Their role is quite important. They don't need to be called upon often, but if a situation arises when they need to be, we'll be quite thankful they're there.

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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
25. Not with Hillary and Bill's potential financial scandals hanging out there
The more Hillary avoids answering these questions, the more suspicions will be raised that there really is something there.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. imho ... not yet.
If, two weeks from now, we see a significant change in national polls resulting from this news cycle, then yes.

I think it's a mistake to abandon Obama when the chips are down, but it might happen.

-Laelth
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
32. Superdelegates will go wherever they see victory. They don't care
who they support as long as they themselves get to stay in office.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
38. Don't see it should. Obama disavowed and is half white entitled to equal indignation.
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
45. Most of America isn't even listening now. DU is a little more involved.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:09 AM by against all enemies
Americans that haven't already decided to vote Dem or Rep already will make up their minds during the debates. They have bigger things to worry about now.
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Beregond2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
53. Push...
This is a country that votes for the candidate they like the most, regardless of anything else. Dubya was a recovering drug and alcohol addict, AWOL, business failure who couldn't hold down a job as a janitor if his name weren't Bush, yet he won, twice, because people thought he'd be pleasant to have a beer with. Given that, do you really imagine that either McCain, a raging old fart, or Clinton, a shrill, cold, calculating martinet, have a chance? Obama comes off as warm, funny and real. No amount of smear and spin is going to change that. I am not saying these are the correct reasons for voting for or against anyone; but they are the real reasons Americans choose who they do. And the superdelegates know that.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
55. I hope so....Obama is a liar...He lied to us from day 1 and he is still ............
lying to us.

why don't you get it?

yeah He lied about his pastor

yeah He lied about Rezko and tried to fix it yesterday with more lies http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obama-r...

yeah He lied about his foreign policy experience by touting his chair on " Asian foreign policy committee" but has never held 1 meeting on Afghanistan



"A thief you can watch but, a liar you can never trust" - my mother
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
58. It could happen. But Clinton is damaged goods too. So either way
say hello to President McCain.
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
60. kick
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
63. yes nt
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
64. Hillary still hasn't been vetted, it'd be wishful thinking to switch to Hillary now
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 01:34 PM by Levgreee
and hope it works out better, because of "pastorgate", despite all the stuff she still has to disclose. Obama is being looked at under a magnifying glass right now, Hillary isn't.
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Unsane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 11:55 PM
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65. kick
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