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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:31 AM
Original message
To everyone still defending Wright's statement.
YOUR candidate tried his best to run away from those statements last night (not very effectively, by the way). So your own candidate has disavowed something you apparently believe with all your heart.

How does that make you feel?

A minority candidate cannot win by alienating the majority. He/she MUST run on a message of unity and hope; it cannot be done by "guilting" the majority into voting for him/her. It cannot be done by scaring the bejesus out of the majority.

What say you now?

Bake
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. I say "There's always 2016, Hillary!"
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Nice. n/t
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Exactly. I've asked a couple of times on here....
Obama disagrees with Wright's remarks so why do Obama supporters defend them?
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Bingo
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Seeker30 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. Obama cried 'Uncle'
:rofl:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Not quite.
Obama is a politician. He's playing politics. The coming days will show whether he's played successful politics in this situation. Underestimate his political skills at your peril, dear.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
62. Over estimate his chances in the GE at our nations peril.
This issue is fatal in the GE. He has stuck a fork in himself.gobama...go home.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
36. LMAO very good
hadn't thought of it that way
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. I neither condemn nor condone
Wright. I don't know enough about his entire body of work to do so. I understand why Obama has to distance himself from Wright's comments. That's politics.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I'm talking to the DUers who have said "Wright Rocks"
Or "there's nothing wrong with what he said."

Bake
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
38. What specifically did he say that was so bad?
Personally, I dont see what the big deal is, and I see Obama as a shallow, empty shell with assholes for supporters.
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thevoiceofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
44. Oh? So now Obama supporters are a monlithic block?
With one mindset? That is why Hillary supporters (and soon McCain supporters) will continue to underestimate Barack all the way to the White House. Why is that, you say? Because we support him for various reasons. Myself, I am in the energy industry. Barack has the most comprehensive energy plan of all the candidates. No one else's plan sets difficult but attainable goals in a period of time where it will actually mean something.

Some identify with Barack's faith and creed, and so do believe in Wright's statements.

Some are political operatives, and acknowledge that the democratic ticket, if not the entire democratic party, cannot survive without the energy and vitality he brings to the party.

There are hundreds of reasons. Barack will survive this and, in a few weeks, be even stringer. Did this hurt? yes. Will he get past it? Yes.
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CatsDogsBabies Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. Obama
is running on a message of unity and hope. Are you saying that every statement made by Obama's pastor over the past 20 years is a statement made by Obama himself? What a crazy position to take! I have heard Obama talk about unity and hope - this is actually what Obama said. It disgusts me to see people making so much out of this. Signed/ Middle Aged White Woman
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. I think to say that Obama is guilting people into voting for him
is not true. I've heard many people say people should vote for Hillary because she is a woman, but I don't decide based on gender or race. Sure there are people that do. More often then not they will vote against someone because of race or gender not for them.

There are a lot of accusations going back and forth on both sides it seems.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. LMAO. We say Hillary is STILL losing and we STILL support Obama

You Hillary supporters are a riot a minute.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
40. This is a typical answer to everything from Obama supporters
When your candidate refuses to talk about policy this is all the ammunition you can muster, apparently.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
11. I wasn't offended by the pastor, but apparently some were.
Obama did the politically expedient thing. The current faux scandal has just about run its course.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
37. and that is exactly how he came across: politically expedient
Americans are not going to trust him again


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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
72. Well that's just precious coming from a Hillary supporter
:crazy:
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. I may be dense, but I don't see how Obama is
"guilting" anyone into voting for him or "scaring the bejesus out of anyone. Could you elaborate just a tad? Otherwise I can only see this statement as being derogatory with no basis in fact.
Also I didn't see him as running away from anything last night. He met it head on and explained his position. What else did you want him to do? Get down on his knees and abjectly apologize for someone else's views on the world? He could only answer for his own views which don't encompass what is in contention.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Wright scares the bejesus out of White Middle America
And Obama just hasn't dealt effectively with this problem (I'm not sure he could!). As for the "guilt", I'm talking about the comments to the effect that what he said was all true, that we deserved 9/11, that the govt. invented AIDS to kill AA's, etc.

Bake
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. The CIA has said blowback is real...so nothing wrong with the 9/11 statement.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Sure, blowback is real.
But if you have to explain it, you've already lost. Americans don't want to hear that.

Bake
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
39. the real blowback of America will be seen in how they vote n/t
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
66. EXACTLY
what part of denial do you have to be in to find that statement so horrific?

Methinks the roots of many DU posters are being revealed by their subconscious tendencies
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. I'm sorry, but I'm part of that "white middle America"
and I don't see America through the rose-colored glasses. And he also doesn't scare me at all..the people who scare me are the ones sitting in the white house right now, and the people who support them.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Whether Barack agrees with Wright or not
I do agree with some of what he says. See, some of us can even think for ourselves.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
15. Hey... get this. I don't have a candidate. Do you know how many people
in America do not have a candidate? Do you really understand how many people feel thrown under the bus and cannot stand any of the choices? Also realize that many of us who have been in this for a while working our fannies off every trying election season are tired and many many many I know are just sitting it out.. getting their affairs in order.. and perhaps moving to another country.

Now, it is sad that Rev. Wright must be so denounced. Perhaps the choices of words aren't the best, but he's not a politician and he's not sugar coating things for White America. I personally think every American should be educated the right way. The reason the Rev. is shocking is because people in their own little bubbles have never heard such "outrageous commentary" and "coming from a church" no less.

I know, I know reason and sense has been completely irradicated on this board. Oh well, continue fighting. When you don't listen, you end up with nothing. I heard a dem say yesterday they were voting for McCain.. they were from PA. Its sad isn't it.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. After the WrightStuff, those who don't have a candidate
will avoid Obama like the plague. In droves.

Bake
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Actually it draws me to him like a moth to a flame. Trying not to get burned,
but liking that he has heard the truth... and Hoping he will really do something for America. Oh BTW, really, really non-pointal comment. Just another, "I'm not really thinking, just typing" response.
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
16. Please be more specific!!
Tell us exactly what was Wright's statement that you allude to and I will try to give you my response.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Just contrast "I have a dream" with "God damn America."
That pretty much says it all.

Bake
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. That is three words....
What was the complete statement?? Tell us what has "I have a dream" have to do with it??

Inquiring minds would like to know?
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Those three words are toxic, radioactive.
MLK was a voice for racial peace, harmony and unity. JW is diametrically opposite. It's the contrast that is so telling.

Bake
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #29
54. Is MLK or Wright running for the presidency?? If not, isn't this a red herring?
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Hardly a red herring.
Your candidate is much closer to Wright than to MLK.

Just what Dems need for this election.

:sarcasm:

Bake
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. And you base that on what? Hillary/McCain talking points?
Because you say so? Ridiculous.
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. I say that you have trouble comprehending the obvious.
I'm not defending Wright's statements(throw up another straw man). You can try to superimpose Wright's words onto Obama, but you'd be dishonest by doing so.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I'm saying the damage has already been done.
I'm not the one superimposing. The media has done that pretty effectively.

Bake
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
55. You are transparently perpetuating a falsehood and you are gleeful about it.
Something is wrong with your character.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. I'm HARDLY gleeful.
I'm tired of losing elections!

Bake
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
19. I say you're dumb.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Nice ad hominem.
Nice post, Farrakhan. Pull your head out of your ass.

Bake
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
49. Agree
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:41 AM by krawhitham
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
26. It is not a requirement for all Obama supporters to agree with everything Obama says...
I am not even necessarily an Obama supporter, although after seeing the racist attitudes coming from so many Hillary supporters since Ferraro made her nasty comments I could never support Hillary.

I disagree with many things Obama has said in the past, and I don't feel the need to march behind him in lockstep right now. I don't agree with Wright on everything either, and I am certainly not marching in lockstep behind him. I do agree with some of Wright's statements that Obama does not agree with though, and I don't think I should change my mind just so I can be in lockstep with Obama. Obama doesn't decide my opinion for me.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
31. "It cannot be done by scaring the bejesus out of the majority."
Well I guess that's it for Hillary then.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
32. And if that's all it takes to scare you, then we may as well press on...
... just for shits and giggles.



Two things have to happen for us to work together as a people. The marginalized have to be able to keep their anger from interfering with working together, and the hegemonic population have to accept that the anger still exists and is valid.


If we're not up to that, then we're also not up to any of the much more difficult steps we'll have to take to turn this country around.

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
33. Yet another fading attempt to stick that handful of shit to the wall.
We'll be moving on to another shiny distraction by Tuesday.

What will be the next ridiculous thing a Clinton staffer will say? Maybe just a rehash of the ones already used -- McCain's a better candidate, Obama is not prepared to be president, Obama is imitating Ken Starr, Obama wouldn't even be here if he were white, etc etc etc.

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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
34. I don't like the statements but I understand their context
And wonder how christians can get so upset by someone who makes the same types of statements as nearly all of the old testament prophets (woe are you was more their favorite statement and you will be destroyed by your neighboring countries or tribes)
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
35. He has to disavow it due to the large numbers of dumbass white people
With "Reverse Racism Persecution Complex". It's why Ferraro's comments were so effective. Most of what Wright said was absolutely right but Caucasians tend to get their little fee fees hurt when the truth is pointed out to them.

Take heart Bake, this may actually tank Obama. Your dream of seeing your lying, scheming, triangulating, warmongering Queen in the White House may come to fruition. Never count out the stupidity and racism of Americans.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
41. He had to.
and you know it.

It doesn't take anything away from Wright's statements.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. If Wright is RIGHT, and there's nothing wrong with what he said
Then why did Obama have to disavow it?

The spin here is making me dizzy.

Bake
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. Because he's not stupid.
And neither are you. You know how this works. You also know that there's nothing Obama can do to satisfy people who are already dead-set against him.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. It's those independents and cross-over Repubs that worry me.
You know, the ones Obama was going to attract in droves.

Bake
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
42. I say, it's a shame that we decided our President had to be Mr. Rogers
Obama had to run away from his mentor of 20 years because white people are terrified of strong black men. It's that simple.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. Who's the " strong black man".?
>>Obama had to run away from his mentor of 20 years because white people are terrified of strong black men.>>

Wright? The guy I just saw on youtube is not "strong".







>>>It's that simple.>>>

It's "simple" all right.

Do you realize that the DEM nominee has to run in a general election in Novemeber?
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Hope And Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
43. "What say you now?"
Well, I added you to the ignore list.

:rofl:
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #43
51. Then plan on ignoring your defeat in the general election
And don't come crying to those of us who have been trying to be voices of reason.

Bake
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
45. I'm not a fan of Obama or Clinton, so I have no horse in this race.
Wright's 9/11 comments were disgusting, though. If they had come from a Southern Baptist preacher in Oklahoma, the same people defending those comments would have been shouting "hate speech" until their lungs were raw. Hypocrites aren't just in the republican party. We've got plenty of our own.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
46. Obama did what you wanted 'Bake'
how's it make me feel that you aren't even satisified when you get what you want?

Pretty dissapointed in you- and this group of people who claim to represent the 'good guys'-

I'm growing more weary than ever with the 'democratic funeral party'-

We are proving that we are every bit as fucked up as the republicans.


peace~
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cloudythescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
47. I thought VIRTUALLY ALL my fellow Obama supporters simply said don't blame Obama
although some might have felt that Wright's statements did not warrant Obama quitting from the church or being expected to, no one that I know of is arguing that Obama being identified with ANY of the controversial things Wright says (and I oppose these notions when Chomsky put them forward also -- NO COUNTRY'S HANDS ARE CLEAN, so that notion of causation/blame is a canard) is right and proper.

Ironically, it is the die-hard Obama-bashers who want to identify Obama with the controversial things his pastor has said, thus clearly prefiguring the Repuglican talking points of 2008
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
52. Every minority candidate will alienate the majority to some degree.
The only alternative is to never have a minority candidate. It's sad but that might suit some people just fine.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
53. I love that BO says he didn't know about the statements, YET
he told Wright back when he was beginning his candidacy that he'd have to distance himself from him...in other words, he knew, in other words, BO lies again.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
58. This is what I say now (although I don't defend the comments)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
61. I say that Barack Obama doesn't dictate my opinion. n/t
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
63. I support and defend those comments... but my candidate is/was Dennis
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eallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
64. Nice "either-or" dichotomy. Can someone approve SOME of what Wright says?
It stuns me that anyone -- outside of Karl Rove -- would cherry pick a few lines out of forty years of writing and speeches, and then demand of those influenced by the author that they approve all of the author's work, or reject the author entirely. I don't know any author I approve entirely.

Let's make it very simple, so that even a child can understand: it's quite possible for someone to be influenced by an author or preacher, to approve much of their life's work, and to still wholly reject some of the their message. Is that too damned subtle?

:hippie:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
65. I agree with Rev. Wright, THAT'S what I say!!! ... I might even burn a flag today!!!




























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Strathos Donating Member (713 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
67. While liberals fight about Obama and Hillary
McCain is getting ready to win the Presidency. It will be the fault of people like some of you who think that Obama or Hillary are the enemy, if McCain wins.

The fuckin' republican ALWAYS unite. They always manage to stand behind their nominee no matter what. We liberals are so busy trying to figure out what is BEST, we're getting screwed.

STFU. Unite behind our nominee when the time comes and stop giving those idiots more ammo to use against us.


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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
68. Don't much care.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:43 PM by Teaser
Why should I? Doesn't affect my life in the least.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
69. Here's what I say
OUR candidate might be YOUR candidate soon, so I suggest you educate yourself and stop with the asinine posts that mirror Hannity, Rush, and freeperism prejudice and bigotry in general.
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
70. Everyone defending ALL of Wright's statements is deluded or racist.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
71. I defend the truth of Wright's statements.
I also defend Obama's wish to move beyond the anger.
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
74. It's politics in america. What else can you say?
I understand why he has to run away from those statements.
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
75. Wright is a blithering idiot.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
76. I say the Rev has a new fan - me.
there are plenty of reasons to 'damn' america - the killing of the nation of Iraq is just one.
the use of american soliders as cannon fodder so the Halliburtons and the Blackwaters can make out like thieves with the treasry, is just two.
racism exists right in our faces everyday and many many suffer by it, the prison factory system is a new kind of slavery, is just three.

plenty of other reasons not to be so proud of what has been going on for years now.

but I think Barack is right, we are better than this. We can change this imbalance of power and make america something to be proud of in reality, not for the sake of a fake talking point like land of the free - best country on earth.

sorry, right now america is not the place to go to for those things.

but it can be corrected - and Obama is the one to start down that path.
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