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Obama's problem with Wright is that he only denounced him when he became a political liability

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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:16 AM
Original message
Obama's problem with Wright is that he only denounced him when he became a political liability
Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine as Obama's pastor since he first visited the church in 1985.
Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he presided over Barack and Michelle Obama's wedding.
Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he baptized their two children.
Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when Obama wrote a book inspired by one of his sermons.
Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he said America deserved 9/11 in 2001.
Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he said it should be "God Damn America" rather than "God Bless America" in 2003.
Rev. Jeremiah Wright is NOT fine now that the truth about his teachings and sermons has been disseminated to the American voting public.

:crazy:

What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice. He's much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible and that I'm not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that's involved in national politics.

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary's problem with Bill was that she denounced him ONLY when he got caught
because Bill's cheating ways were happening long before he was president

I have to assume that she agrees with infidelity as a lifestyle, because she sure stood by her man


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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. HAY GUYZ LOOK WUT HILLARY'S DOING OVER THERE!
Misdirect, distract, rinse, repeat. Come up with a new tune someday, please.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. She's telling you to be afraid of the scary black preacher
And she appreciates your humble compliance.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
51. "She's" not saying anything of the sort.
This "pastor" is ranting and railing and scaring any sane person.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #51
59. And by "sane", I assume you mean "white"
Cuz all those black folks in the video sure didn't seem afraid. Are they all crazy, or just the ones who go to that church?
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
54. who is she?
Keep HIllary out of this mess!
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #54
60. "She" is in it up to her eyeballs.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:37 AM by jgraz
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9051.html


BTW, nice sig picture. Tell me, do ALL angry black people bother you, or just the ones who are kicking Hillary's ass in the primary?
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. Obviously, you missed the point, guilt by association is unfair
Is everyone you associate fit YOUR mold of political correctness?

Have you walked away from a friendship because of a strong difference of opinion

You want to make this an issue, then the Democrats WILL self-destruct in November

If you compare the voting record of Obama and Clinton, they are not that much different

How many Catholics remained in the Church when the Church had doctrine that was hateful to other groups?

How many non-Catholics remained in their Church when their clergy had doctrine that was hateful to other groups?

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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
57. A lot of us have walked away from family and friends over politics
How many threads have seen here about "my RW friend" or "my wingnut relative?"

And we've applauded them for walking away.

Bake
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #57
68. and a lot haven't, including the Hillary and the Clintons /nt
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Actually, HRC never denounced Bill. She enabled the behavior to continue....
and that's why the Monica fiasco happened in the first place.

These political wives, maybe all wives, need to learn how to demand respect and loyalty from their husbands.

That was the first inkling that HRC put her future aspirations above anything else....even her self respect and dignity. She needed him for her future goals. And his pennance is to do all he can to ensure she makes it into the W.H. (okay, it's his goal, too. He wants to go back.)
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. yeah, cus Bill cheating was essential to the survival of this nation as we know it
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 01:32 AM by robbedvoter
:shrug:
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. My point was guilt by association is never a way to judge people
Hillary voted for allowing the use of cluster bombs in civillian areas. What should I infer from that, that civillians don't matter in war?

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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
43. Hillary never denounced Bill
as far as I know. How she handled infidelity in HER own marriage is her own personal business.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. ROVE ON THE BOARD-DISTRACTION/CHANGING THE SUBJECT~
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Seeker30 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. #1 Republican tactic...when in doubt mention Clintons penis
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is the first time a candidates pastor has
become an issue. I still say it's racism that caused his pastor to be investigated.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. It is typical mob mentality, guilt by association. How many people have
attended chuches, disagreed with the clergies stand on gays, Jews, or "special people", and still continued to part of that congregation?


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usrbs Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
55. Then they should have left, or worked to change the pastor
I don't understand staying in a place where bigotry is preached, yet so many have replied that that's no big deal.

Yet another reason to loath religion.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
50. You may be right on wright
...but can Obama now win in November?
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. Shit quote. How about quoting the next few lines that followed.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 01:20 AM by BushDespiser12
What a joke.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wait, you want politicians to start pre-emptively denouncing people?
yeah right!
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. The point is, Obama stayed in this chruch while this man spewed his filth, and did nothing
And is only doing something now out of political necessity.

Your sig image fits to a T, btw.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. and how many people stayed in THEIR churches when those churches spewed hate?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. What filth?
So far, no one has actually managed to lift a quote I don't essentially agree with.

The country is controlled by rich white men.

The country did suffer from blowback on 9/11, and a grown up is able to both hold the attackers responsible for their crimes and also understand how american hegemony helps create a climate in which such attacks are a virtual certitude. We suffered the predictable consequences of our own actions. Predictable blowback.

Hillary Clinton, nor any other white person, will never share the experience and legacy of black oppression. Period.
http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking...

God "damn" America - perhaps not my own choice of words. But certainly God forgive America, God spare America from what it rightfully deserves, God have Mercy on America, combined with an appropriate sense of outrage and anger at the criminality, injustice, violence and tyranny wrought over and over and over again by our government.
http://www.flagrancy.net/timeline.html
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MojoMojoMojo Donating Member (579 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. "God Damn America " is vile and would sink any candidate.If the RW quoted you it will
make a great swiftboat ad.Think about it.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. It's vile? Really?
This issue of perception and the issue of factual reality are two separate issues. Of course the RW would try to make hay out of that quote. So what else is new?

However, in terms of factual reality, there is plenty in our history for which America should be damned.


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Oleladylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. well okay then, let's have at the US of A...
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #48
62. The U.S. of A..
is having at us!! All of us! It's kind of funny that fighting a race war, is much more palatable to some than doing something about the sinking ship we are all going down on.
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moxie_1 Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. Do you "essentially agree" that we invented AIDS to kill Blacks?
"So far, no one has actually managed to lift a quote I don't essentially agree with."
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. If AIDS was proprotionally a rich, white, western-euro epidemic, it'd be cured now.
So.. :shrug:

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busymom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #38
67. Most absurd post EVER
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:17 AM by busymom
Do you have any idea how much money has been poured into AIDs reasearch? How difficult it is to come up with a vaccine or a cure?

The key to stopping the spread of HIV at this point (until medical science can find a cure) is prevention.

My husband is an ID physician who has worked for years with the HIV population. Education and prevention are the biggest issues. Practicing SAFE SEX is the best way to not get HIV.

Also...huge strides have been made in the treatment of HIV...it can be a managable chronic disease now.

Serioulsy...what a bunch of reverse-racist crap you are spewing.

We can't cure many cancers even though they affect "rich, white, western-euro" populations either.

Good grief...sometimes...the stupidity around here hurts.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #32
66. I can't imagine why anyone would..
think such a thing about our government!!

1931 - Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.

1932 - The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.

1935 - The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occurred within poverty-stricken black populations.

1940 - Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.

1942 - Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.

1943 - In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.

1944 - U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.

1945 - Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.

1945 - "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.

1946 - Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.

1947 - Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.

1947 - The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.

1950 - Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.

1950 - In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Francisco. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.

1951 - Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.

1953 - U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.

1953 - Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.

1953 - CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.

1955 - The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.

1956 - U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

1960 - The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

1965 - Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.

1965 - Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

1966 - CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.

1966 - U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.

1967 - CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.

1968 - CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

1969 - Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

1970 - Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.

1970 - United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

1975 - The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

1977 - Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.

1978 - Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.

1981 - First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine.

1985 - According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.

1986 - According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

1986 - A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.

1987 - Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.

1990 - More than 1500 six-month old black and Hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.

1994 - With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.

1994 - Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War.

1995 - U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.

1995 - Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.

1996 - Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.

1997 - Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bioweapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/humanguineapigs
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. "while this man spewed his filth"

Again... you've seen 5 minutes of clips from over 12,000 hours of sermons.... and these 5 minutes were chosen SPECIFICALLY because they are the most incendiary things the guy has ever said.


You're also making the assumption that those 5 minutes out of 12,000 hours happened to occur on days Obama was at church.

Being a politician who has spent a lot of time in the state capital and then Washington DC.... it's not hard to assume that Obama has a high amount of "absentee-ism" with respect to service.


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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
65. Doesn't matter if Obama was there that day or not
Keep trying to duck, dodge, and weave kiddo. It is endearingly cute.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. Wright was less active, and set to retire.
The family liked the church. Anyone who regularly goes to a community church with their family knows what that decision would be like.
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Umbram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. Sounds like a good idea.
"I, Umbram, am running for President.

I'd like to thank my family. Additionally, I'd like to denounce my bookie, that guy I experimented with in college, those people I did drugs with just about every day from Junior High until the day I formed my exploratory committee, oh, yes, and all of the Commies on Democratic Underground. Thank you!"
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
58. You better add a few people about whom you don't know the dirt yet too.
Can't be too careful. It will be something when a candidacy starts by stabbing everyone you know in the back.
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. So when is Hillary the genetically inferior candidate gonna fess up..
...to be a member of a nutty right wing christian cult: The Fellowship?

:rofl:

So what's so fine about being a member of a power lovin' fascism with a smilie face cult?

I love the smell of desperation. :rofl:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
45. KARL--YOU KEEP SHOWING UP -CHANGING THE SUBJECT
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
52. Enjoy
Do you think Obama can win in November with what the GOP will make of this?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. Welcome To Politics 101... You will need...
a #2 pencil and the ability to read history books.

:wtf:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hey, wasn't this posted on Freeptard Republick?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
46. ONLY THOSE LIKE YOU WHO VISIT THE SITE WOULD KNOW
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #46
56. This is the second time you have shouted at me, wrongly accusing me of something.
Maybe you don't care, but you are losing some of your friends here. :(

Btw, rodeodance, I never go to the Freeptardville, but I was informed by someone very recently of their currant talking points.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. Um.. no... he denounced this stuff back in March of 2007... you just weren't paying attention then..
...so he had to do it again today.


The only reason this came up the past two days...after being a year-old story... is because the videos are out there now.


But to address your stuff point by point:

"Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine as Obama's pastor since he first visited the church in 1985."

Why wouldn't he be? None of the "incendiary" videos are from back at that time. What makes you think there was anything like this being said by him back then? Proof, please.. not conjecture.

"Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he presided over Barack and Michelle Obama's wedding."

What incendiary thing did Wright say at their wedding? Please provide a link.

"Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he baptized their two children."

Same question.. what was said by Wright back then that you consider incendiary?

"Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when Obama wrote a book inspired by one of his sermons."

Have you read the book? The sermon is entitled "Audacity of Hope"... and it is a very uplifting and NON-CONTROVERSIAL sermon. Actually, that sermon is a data point that proves that not all of Wright's sermons are negative.

"Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he said America deserved 9/11 in 2001."

Obama has claimed he wasn't at the church on 9/16/01 to hear that sermon. He first heard about it last March... and he denounced it then. You, being a Hillary supporter, are choosing to ignore that fact.

"Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he said it should be "God Damn America" rather than "God Bless America" in 2003."

Obama has claimed he never heard that sermon. Can you provide proof that he heard it before yesterday?



Jeremiah Wright has given over 1,500 sermons in his career at UCC... you've seen clips of about 5 of them... and from that, you are assuming that the other 1,495 are of a similar nature.

That's lunacy.

Either that... or you KNOW these are a couple cherry-picked sermons, selected purposely to present the storyline we're seeing.... and as a Hillbot, you are buying it hook, line, and sinker.


Let me ask you something.... If I could take the MOST controversial 5 minutes of speaking done by Bill Clinton in his political life... and present it to someone in a vacuum, with no reference point for ANYTHING ELSE he has ever said... what kind of impression do you think I could create about him?

Think about that. You are taking about 5 minutes of excerpts from 0.01% of the sermons that Wright ever gave and are PROJECTING THAT AS BEING WHAT IS SAID EVERY WEEK.


You're ignorantly buying the bullshit.... or you're willfully pretending to.



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MojoMojoMojo Donating Member (579 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. I didnt read your post but ABC says there are a lot of similar examples in the videos
I wouldn't push too hard or you may end up looking even more foolish.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Sorry.. don't believe that Hannity held anything back... we've seen the worst ones...
...
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. That's because there's no other REASON to denounce him.
Your mischaracterization of his statements aside. Wright is right.

Unfortunately, being right isn't always compatible with winning elections - so now he's a political liability.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yes, we should all disown our friends and aquaintances even before they become liabilities
That way the world knows we mean business.
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. Still waitin' for your reply for your freeper callout... ...and my response?
I wouldn't take a fuckin' cent from FR. I'll bet you in the entire Bush presidency, that I've sent Bush the most obscentity laced packed sentence in an email that he ever received. Nobody beats a perfectsage. Nobooooooooooody.

:rofl:
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
22. That's politics. How many friends would any of us need to denounce?
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
25. No Mother, No Father, Half Sister
and some relatives in Kenya.

He said this guy is like an uncle to him. As a person who also has no family to speak of besides my husband (his family in another country, I don't speak the language) I can see why it's difficult for Obama to toss this guy under the bus.



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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. He tossed him under the bus.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. You lie.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. HIs crazy uncle that said a bunch of shit on the Sundays when he missed
church. Right. Obama has less credibility than george bush.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. You said he threw him under the bus. You lie. His position,
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:06 AM by BushDespiser12
not some quote taken out of context is as follows:

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-...
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. So, you suppose Obama will be seen in public or private with "unk"
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:10 AM by The_Casual_Observer
anytime soon? Notice that he wasn't really his pastor, he was actally sort of an uncle or something.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. Why should I care?
It is only Repuke behavior that wants to keep a spotlight on everything anyone who is acquainted with Obama says and does.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
34. Putting words into somebody's mouth doesn't make it true.
"Rev. Jeremiah Wright was fine when he said America deserved 9/11 in 2001." <---this will do as an example.

It's not what Wright said.

It's not what Wright meant.

Here's what Wright said:
"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and the black South Africans, and now we are indignant. Because the stuff we have done overseas has now been brought back into our own front yard. America's chickens are coming home to roost."

The word "deserved" is not in there.

No matter how hard you look.

Wright was pointing out simple cause and effect, not judgment (Deserved? No nation deserved 9-11, or *two* Nuclear strikes. That's the whole freaking point of Wright's speech, "As ye Sow, Yea Shall Reap", aka the Threefold Law.)

So, how did ABC choose to spin this for ratings?

"Senator Obama saying his campaign's about moving away from divisive politics, from sniping and attacks, and then to say your spiritual adviser is a man who says America should be damned, that it is to blame for 9-11, that Farrakhan deserves an award for epitomizing greatness?"

It was ABC that made the statement of "blame" and fault, not Wright.

If you'd like to read more about the media pulling wool over people's eyes:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803130008
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
35. Your problem with Obama is that he is a politician
if he wasn't he might have acted differently, but then had he not acted like a politician he would ultimately lose, which would also be a problem for you.

when Hillary acts like a politician, i don't mind that so much as i mind when she does a poor job of being a politician. that is, if she's going to do it, i expect her to at least win and help the cause --i can excuse some lack of morals for that reason.

however, given the choice between a guy who seems to be decent and acts like a politician and does it generally well, i stick with my original choice of Obama because both of those things together, but especially political ability will help get me what i want for the USA next year by getting him elected. the other reason i think he is more decent than Hillary, despite being a politician is that he could have ditched Wright long ago with little penalty or he could have done so much more forcefully tonight with little penalty. he didn't.

regarding Hillary's political-ness, almost all the games of race help her and they hurt Obama. reminding black voters that Obama is black doesn't gain him votes he already has, but it loses him white voters that he formerly had. bringing up race helps Hillary more than Obama. when you hear race in this campaign, the most important thing you can remember is that it ultimately harms his ability to compete. so who has the motive to bring it up? you got it, her campaign.

but theres's just once piece of that last assumption to mention --it doesn't work as well as it did 10 and 20 years ago and there is considerable collateral damage. here's where i think Hillary's being a politician and lacking morals but doing it in the worst combination harms the party. appealing to identity politics to remind voters that Obama is black doesn't work as well as it used to and because it's well understood as a technique, when it is identified (hello bloggers), it backfires mightily among white voters who do not want to be insulted that they only voted for/against Obama because of his race.

so while calling Jesse Jackson the black candidate doomed him in 1984 and 1988 worked, along with dooming himself somewhat (he, not his pastor said "hymietown"), it doesn't work on Obama as well because he has not done that and because fewer whites are afraid of him and actually have his back.

which candidate is more moral, Hillary or Obama? I don't know.

which candidate is a better politician, Obama, because Hillary's campaign is using assumptions from 10 and 20 years ago as if they would work today. that bodes ill for her campaign and ill for us if she gets the nomination.

put her on the Supreme Court instead. like many political wannabes, some seemingly quite successful, she is stuck in the mode that the rules of politics do not change. they do and they change faster than she has changed to fit the new rules. whether Obama has the same weakness or not, he is playing according to the current tactics, so the chances that he will fall behind the game as badly as Hillary are much less.

politicians like pilots are human. get one that's good at their job first, the other stuff is really optional once you know they can fly the plane and will take it where you want them to.
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dhill926 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
40. goddammit...fuck all this shit....
they're all dirty in some way. no knights in shining armor. but, our guys are in many better ways better than theirs, in terms of basic human values. don't do the asshole's dirty work for them..
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. exactly
but the more this sentiment is shared, the greater influx of troll baiters

it will pass after we kick their ass in the GE
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #40
47. PAYback is lovely
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dcindian Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
53. Hillary's biggest problem is you.
How many voters do you really think you are turning her direction with these nut case anti democrat post on a forum for democrats?
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
61. He still is fine!!
The problem is there is no place in Politics for the unvarnished truth. There are too many that can't handle it. They get a whiff and they run to Fox News to calm their senses.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
63. wrong. He denounced the comments early last year when he found out about them.
I'll take this opportunity to denounce and repudiate you and all your worthless posts here.
Feel better?
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. Jacko? Lying? Nah
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