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It is good the race has gone on so long. We are seeing true colors.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:43 PM
Original message
It is good the race has gone on so long. We are seeing true colors.
In so many different ways we are seeing who is running on smaller donors, and who is using the power brokers with big money. We are seeing one candidate's calm demeanor, we are seeing the angry underbelly of the other.

Florida is the secret for Hillary. Tonight we learn that her big donor fundraisers are threatening Dean with wanting huge sums of money back if Florida's delegates are not seated. Remember now, Dean has already offered revotes. So why are they threatening?

Hillary's big money donors threatening Dean over Florida

If youre not going to count my vote, Im not going to give you my money, said Mr. Cejas, who was the United States ambassador to Belgium from 1998 to 2001.

Christopher Korge, a Florida real estate developer who is another top fund-raiser for Mrs. Clinton, held an event last year in his home that brought in about $140,000 for the national party, which was set aside in a special account for the general election battle in Florida. But he told committee officials this week that if Floridas delegate conundrum was not settled satisfactorily he would be asking for the money back.

If we do not resolve this issue, Mr. Korge said, I think its safe to say there will be a request for a return of $140,000.


The anger from Clinton fund-raisers seems to emanate mostly from Florida, where the impasse appears farthest from resolution. Democratic Party officials in Michigan on Friday proposed a new primary election on June 3 to make up for the January election.


Threats, money, power? All of them.

One of the candidates, Barack Obama is using the 50 State plan. He is using and upgrading the DNC voter files as he goes. This will benefit all the party. Hillary is not using the DNC files. I hear she is using Harold Ickes database.

Voter files and how campaigns use them.

Rather than focusing on a handful of swing states, Dean and a chorus of like-minded allies have argued, Democrats should invest substantial time and money in trying to restore their competitiveness, even in Republican territory. As part of that initiative, Dean has provided every state party with funds to hire organizers and upgrade computerized voter files.

Dave Boundy, the DNC's political director, says that while Clinton has used voter files from a private vendor, Obama has mostly purchased the files from state parties. Under the agreement with those parties, Boundy added, Obama will update the files to show which voters responded to his outreach efforts. That should help state parties and the eventual nominee target their own turnout campaigns this fall.


Here is more about Harold Ickes database called Catalist:

Perhaps Ickes' largest-scale project is Catalist, a private company born out of his open distrust in the ability of Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean to build a voter database to rival that of the Republicans. Ickes is president of the company.

"It's unclear to me," Ickes said, whether the Democratic Party's database is uniform and rich enough for a national election.

The Democratic Party's voter database, a party spokeswoman said, is fully functional and accessible through a central interface.

"Given the proven success of VoteBuilder in the 2006 elections and the overwhelmingly positive response we've had from the campaigns and state parties who used it, we are very confident in our voter file," said DNC communications director Karen Finney.


Power and money versus grassroots. The odds are in the power and money corner that are fighting dirty....but things could turn around.
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MojoMojoMojo Donating Member (579 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thats why I dont support him ,I cant stand his financing lies
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The power brokers and huge money are why I can't support Hillary.
Threatening the national party who has already said they could have revotes?

Just a big display of power.

Hillary is out of her league. Obama is a much better candidate.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. her lack of a plan post super tuesday still blows my mind.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Reminiscent of bush and rummy when the
flowers and hugs didn't pan out. They're too stoopid to be president.
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progressive_realist Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Are you sure you want to post that link?
Because if you look to see who has gotten the most money from HMOs and insurance companies, and from oil & gas companies, and from lobbyists, it's Clinton, not Obama. In fact, he appears to only be leading among computer and education professionals and retired persons.
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MojoMojoMojo Donating Member (579 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Obama implies he has no big business influence when he states
that he takes no lobby or PAC money(which is a flat out lie in itself)
And implies that Hillary is the only one who take money from big business.
Infuriates me.As should anyyone who thinks big business has too much power over government .For Obama to lie about that is just evil.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Here's how the lobbyists have contributed per candidate...
This is one contest in which HRC wins.


Lobbyists
Hillary Clinton (D)$783,290

John McCain (R)$453,365

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)$297,925

Mitt Romney (R)$272,975

Christopher J. Dodd (D)$247,350

Bill Richardson (D)$189,750

Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D)$120,660

Fred Thompson (R)$113,650

Barack Obama (D)$99,240

Duncan Hunter (R)$31,150

John Edwards (D)$28,350

Mike Huckabee (R)$19,516

Tommy Thompson (R)$16,800

Sam Brownback (R)$16,225

Jim Gilmore (R)$6,250

Thomas J. Vilsack (D)$1,250

Tom Tancredo (R)$250

Dennis J. Kucinich (D)$201


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Wow, no comparison at all. Thanks for the info.
:hi:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yeah ... that open secret site is great.
Glad I clicked thru.

Your threads are great, btw. Thank you for all your hard work putting them together. Always useful information and the insider perspective is helpful. I have a few friends down there who are sooooo frustrated with how things work (or don't).
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. DK took $201?!?!?! The FUCKER!
:evilgrin:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. I know ... I was shocked too.
Maybe he had them pay for parking somewhere. And he said he wasn't taking any money from them too. :cry:
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. Where are the PAC contributions to Obama's campagin contributions on the site you linked to?
Contributions to Obama campaign: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.asp?id=N00009... PAC money: $25

And Obama has said that for this campaign he doesn't accept contributions from Federal lobbyists. Edwards in his campaign also made the distinction between Fed and state lobbyists.

Contributions to Clinton campaign: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.asp?id=N00000... PAC money: $1,045,419
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mhoran Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
40. Are you kidding?
Big business DOESN'T have too much control/influence over our government?

Obama is evil?

Why even bother to put forward such foolishness? One can only assume your intent is to be intentionally divisive and provocative. What's your game?
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Poor babies!
Thought they had bought an election, but it didn't work out the way they wanted!

Cry me a river! Hope Dean holds his (our) ground.

-Laelth
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Can't resist.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. thank goodness for the Dean.
yeeeeaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhh!

but I have to ask, how'd he sneak into such a power position when he appears to be one of the good guys?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The netroots and grassroots and personal one on one contact with DNC members
and state party leaders. He promised to help them build their parties. And he has.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
46. Good question.
Maybe that is why everyone is suing him or otherwise after him.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe these big donors need to sue
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 11:58 PM by Moochy
The big donors need to write up a contract listing the favors they expect in exchange for the big donations...
Then they could adjudicate this dispute using contract law.

Thanks again for spot-on posts madfloridian!

:yourock:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R - Great post, mf.
It is wonderful to see a candidate use and win on Dean's 50-state strategy.

By contrast, your informative posts about this fulminating cluterfuck in Florida are exposing a dark, nasty side of the Democratic Party that is clearly in an unholy alliance with the GOP. Out loud.

Dean and Obama have work to do.

:thumbsup:
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. One thing we're not seeing...
Actually several things we're not seeing from Hillary:

Tax records
White House records
Library donor records
Senate earmark records

She knows it is harder to beat Obama than McCain so she is hiding these items from Democratic voters.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I have noticed that.
:hi:
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Stardust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. How can she hide her Senate Earmark Records. Public record, or no?
:shrug:
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ZinZen Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. MF- How do you see this fiasco playing out?
I don't see any re-votes in either FL or MI IMHO, so do you think the delegates should be split down the middle and allocated to both Obama and Clinton? I don't know if there is any other way. All I know is that rule breakers should not be rewarded for bad behavior. Thank goodness for Dean's spine on this issue. I think the FL party thought they could bully him. What a laugh!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I hope just a 50 50 split to each. I know Dean wants to seat them..
but not necessarily let them count toward the nominee. Last I read, Obama would have the majority on the credentials committee...too late to find the article now.

So if they seat them that way, I understand their won't be a convention fight.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. I still think it would be worth it to cut the Florida delegates in half
If they are split 50/50, the Clinton supporters will continue to cry "disenfranchisement" all the way through the convention. But if they are awarded based on 50% of the primary results, then Hillary gains 19 more delegates. Since the extra delegates would be based off of the election results, their entire basis for complaining goes away. Hopefully that will shut them up. Honestly, I don't see any other feasible solution.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
15. Credentials committee chair warns FL....oops.
Video included.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/sfl-flfdems0315s...

"TALLAHASSEE - Florida Democrats got a stern warning Friday from the co-chairman of a group that will determine whether the state gets a say in the presidential race: Hold a re-vote, or risk not getting seated at the party convention to pick a nominee.

"It's the responsibility of the state Democratic Party to come up with a (re-vote) proposal that complies with the rules and has the support and the planning that's needed within the state," James Roosevelt, who runs the Democratic National Committee's credentials committee, told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

Florida's Democratic leaders had floated the idea of a June 3 redo election to comply with national party rules, which the state violated with its Jan. 29 primary. But the re-vote plan was opposed by Florida's congressional delegation and faces many logistic obstacles.

..."A re-vote "seems to be moving forward in Michigan; it seems to be a little bit stalled in Florida," said Roosevelt, a former official in Bill Clinton's administration appointed to his party post by DNC Chairman Howard Dean. "If they can do it in Michigan, I don't see why they couldn't do it in Florida."


AH...here's good old Steve Geller again. This guy has a mouth on him that just won't quit. He threatens Roosevelt, just as he is always threatening Dean about something. Steve, not wise to be ugly to the head of the credentials committee.

Roosevelt's comments drew a swift rebuke from Florida Senate Democratic leader Steve Geller, who said the national party is flirting with disaster by threatening to snub Florida.


Here is Steve Geller, Florida senate minority leader lecturing Dean at the state convention while wearing his Size DOES Mstter pin.





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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
17. I'll swear by VoteBuilder
I wish they'd put more resources in and update it more frequently during election years, though.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I think it depends on locals and state leaders, doesn't it?
I was working on the database before we stopped going to the local meetings. I think it depends a lot on local leadership.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
45. Probably--I've heard from several people on DU that don't have access
Damn shame. It is an extremely useful party building tool. Significant that Clinton spurns it and Obama is using it and adding to it.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
18. K & R
:thumbsup:
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
19. that's extortion
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Just when you think the Clinton campaign can't sink any lower...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:38 PM by AZBlue
they find a new layer of subterranean mud to live in.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. Another great article bring the info together. Thanks, mf! n/t
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. Always good to read your well-documented posts, thank you !
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. I always...
appreciate the nice comments. :hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Very classy response from the DNC about this.
http://howieinseattle.blogspot.com/2008/03/delegate-bat...

""Stacie Paxton, a spokeswoman for the D.N.C., defended Mr. Deans handling of the dispute.

While Howard Dean has been working hard to be an honest broker, too many involved have been more concerned with headlines than results, Ms. Paxton said. Its never productive to negotiate through the press, but make no mistake, Howard Dean will continue to lead the effort to find a workable solution thats fair and consistent with the rules.

Well said. Thanks, Howie.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. If anyone is interested....long detailed analysis of how all the committees will play out
in this primary. More details than I have been able to get anywhere and that clearly.

I know a lot of the names Dean has chosen for the committees, and I believe they are people who like him will go by the rules. Dean has said he first wants the voters to speak before others jump in.

http://electioninspection.wordpress.com/2008/03/15/how-... /

Long, but clear and easy to understand.
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. thanks mad
you never cease to educate me. that was so interesting. i feel encouraged. those that can need to send the dnc some cash to offset the threats from hillary supporters. they don't think they'll need dnc $$ in the future? this world is upside down.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. We donated today to the DNC again...plus monthly.
Yes, I thought that was interesting to read. I love these bloggers who can put things clearly.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
28. K and R. nt
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
36. K and R
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Misanthrope2 Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
41. Long race raises Obama negatives to 49 percent; Clinton at 51.
A new Rasmussen poll shows Clinton with 51 percent negative and Obama at 49 percent negative.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics...

Clinton's negative numbers are steady; Obama's are rising.

And it is still a long time to the convention.

Some would agree with you that true colors are showing and mean it in an entirely different way.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. The media is protecting McCain, just as they have Bush.
We in the DU forums do nothing but attack. We are hurting our own.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
43. Obama could ask his supporters to donate $ 5 each to reimburse the DNC
and replace the money in about 14 minutes

The days when these big donations are gone


This campaign is going to clean house in more ways than one.
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Pavlovs DiOgie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
44. Another reason why Obama's my guy NT
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
47. We are seeing true colors, thank God it's not too late.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://a.abcnews.co...



ABC NEWS:
Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11
Obama's Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Has a History of What Even Obama's Campaign Aides Say Is 'Inflammatory Rhetoric'
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