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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:13 PM
Original message
Kucinich Calls For Immediate Suspension Of Electronic Voting
Sorry if this is a dupe.

Kucinich Calls for Suspension of Electronic Voting

CLEVELAND - April 23 - Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich, who has been sounding warning alarms regarding electronic voting systems since he began his campaign last year, today called on federal, state and local election officials to suspend immediately the implementation of any voting systems that do not provide a 100 percent reliable paper-trail back-up to corroborate results.

A decision yesterday by the eight-member California Voting Systems and Procedures Panel that 15,000 electronic voting machines in four counties be banned in the November election because of glitches in the March primary election is more than enough evidence that these systems could undermine the integrity and affect the results of Novembers general election, Kucinich said.

Especially in terms of the Presidential election, Kucinich said, we cannot entrust the future of our country to technologies that are flawed, suspect, and proven to have failed, especially when those technologies have been developed by companies that have their own political agendas.

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0423-11.htm

Congressman Kucinich, thank you for fighting for our Democracy -
:yourock:
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liarliartieonfire Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. READ THIS POST***link***From Kerryin2004**(yet another smoking gun)
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 09:24 PM by liarliartieonfire
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
-------------------------------------------

Diebold may face criminal investigation


The Ohio-based company's president, Walden O'Dell, sent out a
fundraising letter for President George W. Bush's re-election
campaign, saying his company was committed to "helping Ohio deliver
its electoral votes" for Mr. Bush.

And the first time the Diebold machines were used in a major election,
in Georgia in 2002, the election delivered surprise upset victories to
two Republican congressmen.

refer to Kerryin2004 's link to more info.

The sh*t just NEVER stops!!!


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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I just
don't understand why some people think that this is a conspiracy theory. the writing is on the wall.
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liarliartieonfire Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Amazing isn't it!
Diebold Fixiing The Elections.

How much more of this can America stand!

Hope someone's writing the indictment as we speak, For Bush, Cheney, Rove, Card, CondiLiar, Rummy, Bandar, Bush #1,Banks who suported the Bush/Saudi game, Haliburton, AND DIEBOLD.

Grand Jury can be convened after Kerry is President and a new Att Gen and Dem majority in the House & Senate is firmly in place.

Bush's name should go down in the history books as the "Felony President".
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. For a couple of reasons:
ignorance and apathy

:argh:
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Amazing isn't it, Zorra
how quickly this will turn from a thread about the wisdom of Kucinich's efforts... Kucinich, who stopped the Diebold 'cease and desist' orders against websites, credited by Bev Harris as the most outspoken member of Congress to lead the charge against BBV companies...

<sigh>,
dp

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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Dennis is a LEADER
The issues he took on so many months ago, and was either ignored or derided, are now being *followed* by others.

Yet, he keeps on going.

All integrity, no hubris.

Kanary
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Yes.
We knew from the beginning that this was the probable outcome; the campaign itself ignored and marginalized, while further down the line more "mainstream" people all of a sudden "discovered" these issues.

I've been torn between elation that the campaign is having the intended effect, and fury that Dennis does not get the credit he deserves for the work he has done on these issues all along.

Whether the media, the democratic party, or anyone else wants to recognize the work that Dennis has done and is doing, the fact remains. Every day I see the results. I hear Dennis' ideas "discovered" by other candidates, other leaders, and even the general population. I'm less infuriated and more encouraged these days.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Very good point LWolf
Dennis may not be the nominee, but I've witnessed the difference he's made both locally and nationally.

Two weeks ago at my Congressional District convention, we got our congressman Martin Sabo (MN-5th Dist) to sign on to Dennis's Department of Peace bill. After he announced his support, the entire 200+ person convention was on the floor-- even the 75% who were not DK delegates!

Kucinich supporters are playing a major role in Minnesota's Democratic-Farmer-Labor at ALL levels.

And as events continue to unfold around the world, more and more people are admitting that Dennis Kucinich is RIGHT. Just last week, at a meeting of my state senate district's web committee, I had a couple of Kerry supporters tell me that they prefered Dennis's platform on Iraq. And I have a feeling that they are NOT alone on this either.

Even though Dennis is not our candidate (I think he'd shred Bush in the debates and on the stump), his voice and his issues are being heard. IMHO that's a HUGE victory in and of itself.

:D
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I agree.
If the issues are heard, we will begin to make progress on them; it will truly be "The end of fear, and the beginning of hope."

I have never, in my 44 years, liked a politician. I've voted. I've supported the least objectionable. But I've never liked, or really, felt much agreement with, my representatives. Until Dennis Kucinich.

I love that man.

:loveya:
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. At the risk of this turning into a love-fest
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. Dennis Kucinich is easily the most likable politician I've ever met or even worked for-- and I got my start in politics working with Paul Wellstone.

Don't get me wrong, Paul was a great guy, a fabulous campaigner/activist and a very good Senator, but IMHO Dennis's background and experience is what makes him so different from other politicians.

I was also involved in the Rainbow Coalition in the late 80s/early 90s, which sprung from Jesse Jackson's presidential campaigns in the 1980s. We had a lot of grassroots activity at this time, but then the organization decided to become centralized and turned into a PAC that only endorsed candidates. This time, with Dennis's help, we have the makings of a truly progressive, grassroots organization that can influence the Democratic party for many years to come.

I'm going to Boston for the convention, either as a delegate or else on a bus with a bunch of other activists from MN, to help shape the future of this movement after the convention. Our local campaign continues to grow and evolve every week-- it's really amazing to see how many people Dennis has reached, even after our caucuses and most conventions are over.

It's really amazing to see the respect we've gotten from other campaigns and especially the party leadership. With no money and against all odds, we somehow got 17% of the vote statewide, and OVER 40% in our two biggest cities. All that by a bunch of political neophytes, most of whom had no clue what a caucus was.

We're going onward, nationwide, and we'll keep fighting for what we need. No matter who wins November 2!

:toast:

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. You are a breath of fresh air and hope
this morning.

Knowing that we are going onward, and that you will be in Boston, is a big kick for hope.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Don't ya love it, LWolf
That we kept hearing that Dennis being in the race was a "vanity campaign", and how it was "all about his ego", yet here he is, plugging away so relentlessly, his ideas are getting heard yet he is not, and Dennis just keeps going, being his peaceful, cheerful, caring self.

*You* and *I* may get furious sometimes, but I don't see that happening with Dennis. He's after the results, not after the credit for himself. I'm afraid I am not able to be that ego-less. I admire him for it, but.... can't live up to it.

The Party owes this man one HUGE debt of gratitude!!

:hug: for Dennis....

Kanary, an admirer
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. You bring up a point.
Dennis is a living model of what we should be doing. He is "being the change" he wishes to see in the world.

What an inspiration. If Dennis can keep going, being his peaceful, cheerful, caring, self, Why can't I? It's a goal; I've done better in years past, facing challenges. I have to say I failed myself in this department this year. I let the politics and crises inherent in my jog (public ed), and the disease of fear, anger, threat, and despair currently infecting public ed at every level, bring me down.

I will try to keep this in mind at work today.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. It would be really great if
every Democratic legislator followed DK's example and presented a high profile united front against the obvious danger to democracy that is posed by the use of electronic voting machines.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. hear you loud and clear dp
I have a sense that we're going to see some serious "buyer's remorse" around October if Kerry doesn't step up to the mike on issues like this that are "invisible" because the major party candidates are too afraid to talk about them.

That's why I'm glad DK is still in the race. If we DON'T talk about issues like an end to NAFTA/WTO, single-payer healthcare, living wages and peace, then NOBODY ELSE will.

If Kerry somehow flubs this race, I'll be on the phone to Dennis's office on November 3rd asking him when the 2008 campaign begins.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is one position that I think Kerry needs to follow Dennis on NOW!
Considering that it's Kerry's election to be stolen.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. I don't know if Diebold is bought and paid for or not.
But it's just rediculous to not have a voter-verified paper trail.

Add a $100 printer and a 10 cent printing program. Open source it. Verify it. Problem solved.

Good for Kooch.
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. thank god for dennis
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. Awesome news!
Lets hope they listen.
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. The hardest workin' presidential candidate EVER!!
Thank Goddess for DK! He is one of the few voices who talks the talk. And he still has time, somehow, to walk the walk.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. And disabled voters everywhere will hate him for it (nt)
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Is there any reason an exception cannot be made for disabled voters?
Edited on Mon Apr-26-04 01:51 PM by Zorra
With a machine that produces a printed receipt?

How have disabled voters voted in the past?

How do standard DRE devices help the disabled vote?

There are DRE devices made specifically for the disabled. I am sure no one would complain about spending a little extra money and effort to accommodate disabled voters.

Disabled Access Unit (DAU 5000)
The eSlate system is ADA accessible by design. The eSlate 3000 can be upgraded to a DAU 5000 to accommodate various devices that support voting by the disabled. Key features incorporated into the eSlate's ADA compliant electronic voting system through the DAU 5000 include:

Special interfaces for the physically challenged, including head movement switches and "sip and puff" switches (that allow severely physically impaired voters to cast their ballot using only their breath).
An audio ballot reader to support visually impaired voters, including audible signals that provide confirmation with each selection.
A simple navigation method that is modeled after systems commonly used by the disabled.

All disability features can be used interchangeably, in whole or part, with the eSlate's standard interfaces, allowing the voter to overcome whatever challenges he or she might face in casting his or her vote.

http://www.hartintercivic.com/solutions/eslate.html

Add a printer and there you go.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Given enough time, sure
For the 2004 election though, its way too late to talk about changing equipment. You have to get money appropriated for the machines, get the equipment in, train election officials, etc. If you were to ban all DRE machine for this election the only option states would have would be to go back to the older methods they used in 2000. Is that what we really want?

FYI, I know almost all the developers at Hart-Intercivic. Good guys who seem to really believe in their company's product.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. This is not even a question of what we want.
Electronic voting systems currently in use do not contain the safeguards necessary to guarantee a reasonably fair and accurate election process. There is a great deal of evidence to substantiate this fact. This evidence has been presented here at DU and has been discussed at great length.

A moratorium on these machines is necessary until this issue is resolved.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Not this disabled voter!
W/the exception of the blind, I see no reason that disabled people need the DRE machines.

Almost all of the PWDs I know vote absentee. I voted that way until I moved to Oregon where everyone votes by mail.

Why are you continuing to spew that propaganda? What purpose does it serve?

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