THEREFORE, I (Hillary Clinton), Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with

[Ichingcarpenter]

This morning, on NPR, Senator Clinton admitted to breaking her pledge to the DNC. She stated:

"... we all had a choice as to whether or not to participate in what was going to be a primary. And most people took their names off the ballot, but I didn't. And I think that was a wise decision because Michigan is key to our electoral victory in the fall.

This is a direct and unequivocable violation of her pledge to the DNC and Democratic voters. She signed a pledge not to campaign OR PARTICIPATE. Here's the relevant section of the pledge (pdf):

THEREFORE, I (Hillary Clinton), Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008).



By her own admission, she has broken her pledge.


As she stated, she had a choice to make - and she chose to break her word.

[ClayZ]

1. K and R

[ACanadianLiberal]

115. What has she broken?

A pledge? OK, let's take a look at the pledge:

"Therefore, I (Hillary Clinton) .... pledge to actively ...., I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any states not authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008)".

Did Hillary campaign in MI and FL? Last time, we were told only person who campaigned in FL was Mr. Hope Obama.

What date is today? March 14, 2008. It's been after February 5, 2008 though.

Is she campaigning in both states now? No. How could she have broken anything?

Is Hillary going to campaign in both states in the near future? If there are revotes in any forms. She will, as well as Obama.

So far, only candidate who has broken the pledge is Mr. Barack Hope Obama.

What are you talking about?

[TahitiNut]

119. "or participate in any election contest"

The majority of Democratic candidates regarded the presence of the names on the ballot as "participation" when they both had control over placing it on the ballot and over removing it. Kucinich made a request to have his removed ... but didn't have his signature notarized. Thus, he was required to resubmit the request with notarization. The second request missed the deadline by a day. Clinton, Dodd, and Gravel made no request for removal. Kucinich DID come to the state ... apparently for fund-raisers. Fund-raising was deemed "OK" and not supposedly regarded as "campaigning." Clearly, one can choose how to view the difference, the distinction, and whether it matters.

Hillary, in her assumption of the "presumptive nominee" (largely due to name recognition), made choices that can be viewed as coincidentally(?) very self-serving.

It was (and is) a FUBAR.

[politicaholic]

120. Perhaps you should go back and read the pledge...

She broke the pledge by not withdrawing her name from those primaries.

I think you may want to cool down a little over this, because Obama isn't saying he's against another primary to seat those delegates, in fact, he's welcomed the chance for all of those Americans to be heard.

And this "Mr. Hope Obama" thing, what is that? Is that a put down or...? Yes, he gives a message of hope every speech. I don't see what's wrong with that. He's a politician. Take speeches from all three candidates currently in the running and the words "hope and change" sit prevalently because that rhetoric works. It was Obama that put it on his signs first, that's all.

[ACanadianLiberal]

126. How could you so conveniently ride yourself so comfortably on

both ways? Mr. Barack Hope Obama did not withdraw from FL also, other three folks did not withdraw from MI too.

So, he is welcoming the chance for all of those Americans to be heard, right? Right, by what? He is hesitated for mail-in; he doesn't like a primary; his camp did implicitly indicate something like caucus. That's your man, this Mr. Hope's stance on this critical issue. Sounds a bit hollowly selfish.

You have a problem with the thing "Mr. Hope Obama". What nerve does this touch in your system?

What's the hope about?

Unity? Only unity with Republicans and Indies, not Clinton and her supporters.

Clean government? Look at his disgusting relationship with Mr. Money Rezko; look at his wife's sudden salary increas (from 12xxxx to 32xxxx) after his swearing into the US senate.

New type of politics? look at how he drove out his political rival Alice Palmer and others when he first time competed for a seat in the IL senate (smart guy, indeed); look at his absent vote for the Kyl/Liberman bill, and then later on attacked Clinton who voted, and twisted her yes vote as something for war; look at his take on the issue of Pakistan (pretendingly hawkish).

Spiritually uplifting? look at his explanation for his relationship with the real racist Rev Wright; look at him a race profiteer who have again and again flamed the race fire and profited from it again and again.

......

All of these might be negligent for you, but for so many people it might not.

He is dragging the entire thing into a hopeless ditch. No good record to run, then run hopeless hope.

[Muttocracy]

2. here's the audio link

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88165077

Also has a summary

edit to add - it's worth hearing Steve Inskeep asking questions. I miss Bob Edwards, but he did a good job on this one.

[bobthedrummer]

3. "Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc."

Active GD thread I started 3-7-2008.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2973191

[truedelphi]

18. Excellent topic. Thanks for mentioning it again. n/t

[BzaDem]

4. She said she wouldn't campaign. She didn't campaign. What's the problem.

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. "or participate in any election contest"

Maybe she forgot to read that like you did.

[uponit7771]

7. Wrong: "...or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized..."

[yodermon]

8. campaign "or participate"

By leaving her name on the ballot in MI, she "participated."
At least i think that's the point of the OP.

[Levgreee]

10. it was okay for them to leave their names on the ballot. That's not in violation of the pledge

[Debi]

112. Where does it say that in the pledge? Was there a follow up letter stating that?

Or an oral agreement? Or was that the Clinton campaign's interpretation?

[rinsd]

125. Dodd, 1st signer of the pledge and key to getting others on board, left his name on.

For once I would like an Obama supporter to admit that taking his name off the ballot was a political stunt to curry favor with Iowa voters.

After Iowa voted, he had surrogates campaign for him to vote undecided in MI even running radio ads.

In FL he he got permission to run national ads that would be shown in FL.

Notice the difference in how the situations are handled.

Let's stop pretending his name removal was part of principle and fealty to the pledge.

[Veilex]

113. ummmm...wrong

"I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC"
Thats pretty cut and dry...
No room for equivocation there.

[Yurovsky]

9. How Clintonian ...

I hope you're being sarcastic.

[tulsakatz]

11. she said she wouldn't campaign OR PARTICIPATE........

by having her name on the ballots, it could be argued that she participated in a state where she (earlier said) she would not participate.......

[Ravy]

22. Right. And using that logic, Obama broke it too, by leaving his name on in FL. nt

[ThatBozGuy]

45. Except that the pledge and decision came after the deadline to remove names in fl. Why because they

pushed up their primary beyond the early limits

[Ravy]

55. So, they both made a pledge they knew they couldn't keep.

Or, was it that Clinton was going by what the DNC and Dean said about having your name on the ballot being okay?

[grantcart]

72. In Florida candidates have no power to put their names on or off the ballot

The secretary of state is required to place on the ballot any name they deem to be a reasonable candidate

[rinsd]

123. That is not true.

Party heads submit names and to get one's name removed from a ballot you have to submit an affadavit stating you are not running for President.

[tulsakatz]

64. nevermind........

[SharonRB]

116. Florida had no mechanism in place to remove names from the ballot

Michigan did.

[SeaLyons]

12. ..

:thumbsup:

[Mme. Defarge]

13. Ooooooooooooh -- GOTCHA!

So let me get this straight, it all depends on what the meaning of "is" is?

[Ravy]

29. No, it depends on who you support. Obama supporters don't want

to be reminded that he left his name on the Florida ballot covered by the same pledge.

[MonkeyFunk]

47. and ran ads there

which is campaigning. They're trying to say Clinton broke the spirit of the pledge, but Obama clearly broke the letter of it.

[Liberal Veteran]

53. That's disingenuous and you know it.

There were some ads that run in a regional campaign and because Florida gets many of the same feeds, those commercials went with it.

It was not actively campaigning.

[MonkeyFunk]

57. Bullshit

if Clinton had done it you guys would be birthing cattle.

EVERY other candidate managed to avoid running ads in Florida. Obama could've waited a couple more days, but he didn't. He ran ads in Florida.

[RazBerryBeret]

60. and Clinton

managed to have 2 "fundraising" events in Florida--isn't that pretty close to Campaigning?

[MonkeyFunk]

62. Huh...

so did Obama. And the pledge specifically allowed fundraisers.

You guys are just fucking pathetic with your half-truths and lies. I just hope your candidate is better than his supporters.

[RazBerryBeret]

63. nice mouth dude...

fundraisers but not press conferences....
which is a blurred line.

and I hope your candidate is better at keeping her cool....

[MonkeyFunk]

66. And the only one who had a press conference

was OBAMA!!!!!

[greyghost]

80. He better be, because his supporters here come across as a

bunch of hypocrites.

[dchill]

117. Well, we KNOW your candidate isn't...

better than her supporters.

[nvme]

83. florida ballots

once a candidates name is on the ballot by law they cannot be removed (Florida). The Republican "Foley" who was accused of inapropriate text messaging congressional male pages remained on the ballot even once he withdrew, they cannot change ballots. In fact when another republican stepped up to take Foley's place, they had to vote Foley's name in order to elect him. The Republican couldn't put his own name on the ballot in Foley's place. So, it is disingenuous to imply that Obama acted in bad faith in Florida, because All candidates were on the ballot.

[DevonRex]

24. "or participate in"

Why did you leave that out?

[uponit7771]

5. You know, if America lets her win we deserve the consequences

[MH1]

108. yep.

[babylonsister]

14. She also said this in October 07:

Clinton's Broken Promise

by BooMan
Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 11:21:10 AM EST

Way back in October of 2007, someone in New Hampshire asked Clinton if it wasn't just politics as usual, saying one thing and doing another, that she hadn't taken her name off the Michigan ballot.

As the only top tier Democrat remaining on Michigan ballot, Clinton is all but guaranteed to win the state's primary. Michigan is tentatively slated to send 156 delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention, but national party officials have threatened to take away those delegates if the state persists in holding its primary on Jan. 15.

"It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," Clinton said Thursday during an interview on New Hampshire Public Radio's call-in program, "The Exchange." "But I just personally did not want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever, and then after the nomination, we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in 2008."

snip//

None of that empty talk explained why she wanted her name on the ballot in a contest that 'is not going to count for anything.' She agreed not to campaign or advertise in Michigan, and she agreed that the contest wouldn't count. A lot of people smelled a rat back in October, and they were right to smell a rat.

Hillary Clinton says the results of Michigan's Democratic presidential primary should count, even if Barack Obama's name did not appear on the ballot.

"That was his choice," she says in an interview with Steve Inskeep. "There was no rule or requirement that he take his name off the ballot. His supporters ran a very aggressive campaign to try to get people to vote uncommitted."

It was not only Obama's choice, but the choice of Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, and John Edwards. But why does the choice matter? As Clinton acknowledged three months before the Michigan contest, 'It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything.' If it was 'clear', then having your name on the ballot didn't matter any more than not having your name on the ballot.

more...

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/3/13/112111/267

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. THEREFORE, I (Hillary Clinton),

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

[Cha]

15. hilary tells so many lies she

can't keep 'em straight.

[bhikkhu]

17. That was a surreal interview.

Thanks for posting the actual text of the pledge - it makes the entire thing more clear. The Clinton campaign has criticized the others long enough for "choosing" to takes their names off the ballot...interesting to find that all candidates agreed not to "campaign or participate". So Hillary found it wise to break her pledge?

[Ravy]

19. By YOUR admission, Obama broke the pledge, too.

In Florida, but for some reason I don't think you will acknowledge that.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

20. explain please...

[Ravy]

21. The OP is claiming that Clinton broke the pedge by remaining on the ballot.

Florida was covered by the same pledge, and Obama left his name on the ballot there.

[WonderGrunion]

26. At the time the pledge was signed

It was too late to take any names off the Florida ballot according to Florida law.

Because if you changed any of the names, it would mess up how they intended to fix the election.

[rinsd]

50. No, that is wrong.

You can only remove your name from the FL ballot by declaring you are out of the race.

It had little to do with timing.

[WonderGrunion]

67. No you are wrong

Biden and Dodd were both out of the race before the Jan 29 Florida beauty contest and were still on the ballot anyway.

[rinsd]

100. You have to submit an affadavit to have your name removed.

Can a presidential candidate remove their name from the ballot in Florida?
Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Thurman, Senator Geller and Representative Gelber submitted to Florida’s Secretary of State the names of our Party’s presidential candidates for placement on the January 29, 2008 Democratic Presidential Preference Primary ballot. State law allows candidates who wish to withdraw from the Florida primary to do so by filing an affidavit stating that he or she is not a candidate for President of the United States of America. In other words: to get off the ballot in Florida, a candidate has to swear that he or she isn’t running for President.

http://www.fladems.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs/#q17

[grantcart]

74. Candidates have no say in having their name on the ballot in FL

The secretary of state is required to place on the ballot anyone who they consider is an active or likely candidate. Candidates cannot file to have their names on it nor can they request their names be taken off.

[rinsd]

103. That is incorrect

Can a presidential candidate remove their name from the ballot in Florida?
Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Thurman, Senator Geller and Representative Gelber submitted to Florida’s Secretary of State the names of our Party’s presidential candidates for placement on the January 29, 2008 Democratic Presidential Preference Primary ballot. State law allows candidates who wish to withdraw from the Florida primary to do so by filing an affidavit stating that he or she is not a candidate for President of the United States of America. In other words: to get off the ballot in Florida, a candidate has to swear that he or she isn’t running for President.

http://www.fladems.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs/#q17

[nvme]

85. no See Mark Foley Republican example

Once its on its on you cannot remove your name.

[rinsd]

102. That is not true.

Can a presidential candidate remove their name from the ballot in Florida?
Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Thurman, Senator Geller and Representative Gelber submitted to Florida’s Secretary of State the names of our Party’s presidential candidates for placement on the January 29, 2008 Democratic Presidential Preference Primary ballot. State law allows candidates who wish to withdraw from the Florida primary to do so by filing an affidavit stating that he or she is not a candidate for President of the United States of America. In other words: to get off the ballot in Florida, a candidate has to swear that he or she isn’t running for President.

http://www.fladems.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs/#q17

[LSK]

30. the OP said Hillary admitted she participated

[Ravy]

33. ... by leaving her name on the ballot.

Something Obama did as well in Florida. If it works for one, it works for both.

If having a name on the ballot is participating, and they couldn't remove their names, then neither should have signed the pledge.

[beezlebum]

84. the OP

refers to Clinton's quote regarding Michigan. in FL, candidates have no say in whether or not their names appear on a ballot.

In Michigan, on the other hand, she clearly stated that she chose to keep her name on the ballot regardless:

"... we all had a choice as to whether or not to participate in what was going to be a primary. And most people took their names off the ballot, but I didn't. And I think that was a wise decision because Michigan is key to our electoral victory in the fall."

it was a "choice," one she and the others had pledged not to make, and here she is citing that her "choice" was made so that she might count Michigan as a victory, regardless of that simple fact.

[Ravy]

101. If you can't abide by the pedge, then DON"T SIGN IT.

What is so tough with that? If having your name on the ballot was a violation and you couldn't take it off, then Obama should not have signed the pledge.

Is that so hard? If you can't do something, then don't pledge to do it. Seems simple to me.

Dean says having the names on the ballot is fine. But the Obama campaign, spurred on by KO's attempt to divide us further by telling half-truths and lies, insists that having your name on the ballot WAS a violation.

Fine. Hold both candidates to that same standard.

If I pledge to give $1,000,000 to the DNC, I will be breaking my pledge if I don't have a million dollars to give, or if I try to say "My wife wouldn't let me".

That is truth, and that is honesty. We could use more of that this election process.

[beezlebum]

122. i don't think you are understanding the point.

the contests in both michigan and FL were moot and were basically to be disregarded, as the states had not been approved yet, as such the candidates, in signing the pledge not to participate were to disregard any results of said contests, whether or not they could control the fact that their names were on the ballots, and therefore, FL has no relevance in the matter since neither candidate had such control. it wasn't willing participation on either candidates' part in that case. signing the pledge in florida's case was merely akin to vowing to disregard results. *catches breath*

in michigan, however, clinton had control of that fact. she chose to participate- chose being the operative word here. she willingly and openly violated the pledge in hopes of, basically, cheating- she knew she would have no competition and felt compelled to take advantage of the situation, openly, willingly, knowingly violating the pledge.

do i care particularly that clinton violated the pledge? am i going to ride on that as my sole reason for not supporting her? am i even surprised in the least? no. why? because it is merely a fluorescent mark on one incident on a long "entitlement" index surrounding the clinton campaign. when i, as an obama supporter, a former clinton supporter way back in the day, say that clinton's entitlement and arrogance and in-it-to-win-it-&-not-above-cheating attitude turns me off, this is one of the many incidents i can point to back up my increasingly strong opinion against her. okay, i gotta get a glass of water. phew.

[cui bono]

104. are you not reading any of the replies to your post that you keep spamming this thread with?

:eyes:

[DevonRex]

27. They weren't allowed to.

Florida did not allow it for whatever reason.

[Ravy]

32. Then Obama should not have made a pledge he couldn't keep.

Neither should Clinton, for that matter.

[DevonRex]

38. Obama did remove his name in Michigan.

Hillary did not.

[Ravy]

40. So they both broke the pledge, by your estimation.

Personally, I don't think having your name on the ballot broke the pledge. I also think the DNC said so.

But if she broke the pledge, he did, too. There is no getting around that.

[WonderGrunion]

70. Or....

Florida, having already broken DNC rules once, did so again. I'm pretty sure as upstanding as Obama is, he asked for Florida to take off his name and they refused. And it must be true, because I wrote it on the internet and didn't put "LOL" after it.

[haroldgiowa]

31. Was my first thought while reading the replies.

I'll be honest, I am not thrilled by either candidate left. So my dog is not in this fight. I can give an observation, though. They are both still in because they raised a substantial amount of money to keep them going. I am not a fan of elections bought and paid for by the highest bidder. This is not the party I grew up with. Both campaigns remind me of a carnival snake oil salesman or woman.

One candidate is in it because it is their turn and we owe her and the other is in it because they were ordained by the press during a speech made at the 2004 convention.

There are better candidates in our party more deserving then either of these two. There are times I wish for a brokered convention so we can open our minds and do what is best for the party and the nation.

I am troubled by candidates that run on change without giving details what that change entails. Both are guilty as charged. I am in no position to trust what they have planned. McCain won't get my vote either, but I at least no I am going to take in the end with him. Can I last four more years of republican control. I can, but there are many good people who can't.

If one of these two candidates wins,they need our prayers and support. God knows both need the help, because niether one is ready to be president. Flame away at me if you must, but I quarentee you I am not the only one who feels this way.

[Ravy]

35. I almost agree with everything you posted, except

"niether one is ready to be president".

I am not sure you could ever say someone is "ready to be president", but our choices are certainly not the least qualified of past presidents who have done a good job in office, so using that standard I would consider each qualified.

I am supporting a Unity ticket.

Double on your prayer and support. Great post.

[haroldgiowa]

42. I agree

So the qualification point between the two is a mute point. There are former and current presidents who are not qualified to be president. That is unless you go to the constitution as a reference point.

correct spelling

[sniffa]

23. Be prepared to be parsed to death

Death by a thousand definitions of what the word, is, is. K&R for the pledge breaker.

[Major Hogwash]

34. Let the parsing begin! She din't really mean it cuz she had her fingers crossed behind her back!

An ancient method of protecting oneself from making and breaking pledges that we all are familiar with.

LoL

[sniffa]

36. Behind her back? Why not be up front like this guy?

[Major Hogwash]

54. Hahahahahaha! Classic!

I don't know where you got that, but it's funnier than hell!!!

LoL

[grantcart]

71. eight years of attacks and parsing - count me in

[Ravy]

25. Let's declare them *both* ineligible and unite behind Al Gore.

He didn't have his name on either ballot.

[Sir Jeffrey]

28. Bullshit and lies...

Just go away Hillary. You're disgraceful.

[0007]

121. A bicyle build for two work might work. B rides in front and whatcha ma call it

brings up the rear.

Would that work on a nice sunny day?

[JTFrog]

37. Credibility be damned. All she cares is that it's not legally binding since she plans on taking

this all the way to the courts.

[MH1]

95. Hillary don't need no steenkin' credibility...

[NastyRiffraff]

39. BS. Even Dean said there was no pledge, or obligation, to take names off the ballots

He unequivocally stated that the DNC had nothing to do with that decision, and wasn't a part of it. It was completely the decision of the individual candidates.

[JTFrog]

41. W.T.F. - The individual candidates took a PLEDGE. More HillaryWorld inverted logic.

THEREFORE, I (Hillary Clinton), Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008).

Are you participating if your name is on the ballot? J.F.C.

[NastyRiffraff]

43. So where in there is there anything about "name on the ballot"?

Again, Dean said this was not a requirement; it wasn't something the DNC required or encouraged. No one campaigned or participated in either state (including Obama, whose ad ran in Florida, and that's a much better case for "campaigning").

[JTFrog]

44. Right. Credibility be damned. As long as it will hold up in court. n/t

[Ravy]

65. If you are, Obama broke the pledge, too. Florida was covered by the pledge.

If Florida would not let candidates remove their names, they should not have signed the pledge. It is that simple.

That is, *if* having your name on the ballot is participating. J.F.C.

[WonderGrunion]

68. Florida wouldn't allow it

Even Biden and Dodd, both of whom had already dropped out of the race, were still on the Florida ballot.

[Ravy]

75. So, don't make pledges you can't keep. How hard is that? nt

[Jai4WKC08]

46. Where's the link?

It strikes me as odd that I can't find this pledge ANYwhere on the internet using google.com except for DU. So I have to ask, why should I accept that she signed the pledge that you have quoted here?

Give me a link to a reliable source for your pdf file.

[Ichingcarpenter]

48. How about Bill Richardson's campaign

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:WffSDPNvdlUJ:msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070831_Final_Pledge.pdf+four+state+pledge+letter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


http://www.richardsonforpresident.com/newsroom/pressreleases?id=0252

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/01/edwards-obama-sign-four-state-pledge/

[Jai4WKC08]

76. How about it indeed

The pledge at Richardson's website (and the other links) is not the same as the one you quoted in your OP. It specifies to a greater extent what a candidate may and may not do. It's rather obvious from the write up at Richardson's website that there was no obligation to remove themselves from the primary itself.

Obama is the only one who broke the pledge as far as I can tell.

[grantcart]

49. kick

[Hamlette]

51. She said in Oct. she wasn't taking her name off bec. it wouldn't count so it didn't matter

this is why they hate the Clintons. At least I figured that much out.

[Madam Mossfern]

81. OK

She said that it didn't count.
Now she says that it does.

Do you see something there?

Do you think that if she did not do so well in Florida that she would be insisting that the delegates be seated?
Now be honest with yourself......

As far as Michigan goes.....really!

[rinsd]

124. self delete

[rinsd]

52. She stayed on the ballot in MI and he ran ads in FL.

And they both "participated" in FL's election.

[WonderGrunion]

69. He ran national adds

Hillary couldn't afford those, so she didn't.

[Jai4WKC08]

77. Did they run in FL or not?

If they ran in FL, they broke the pledge.

And it's pure made-up bullshit that Hillary couldn't afford a national ad buy. She had plenty of money at that point.

[WonderGrunion]

82. Marc Penn

had plenty of money, Hillary was finalizing the paperwork on a $5 million loan.

[rinsd]

99. Nice to see you come out of hibernation cicada.

Nice job becoming a donor to boot.

[rinsd]

106. The ads ran in FL and reached a significant number of voters

Which under DNC rules qualifies as campaigning.

Obviously he felt it was close to violating the pledge so he asked permission to run the ads from the SC Dem party chair. He could have waited a week but he saw FL getting coverage as a straw poll so he wanted to improve his showing.

Notice the contradiction. When it was appealing to NH & IA, Obama takes the drastic step of removing his name from the ballot but once those contests were over he seeks permission to basically campaign in FL.

[Strelnikov_]

56. I can't listen right now

I am too frighten of the black preacher man I keep reading about on the DU.

[MH1]

98. ,,

:rofl:

[Scurrilous]

58. K & R

:thumbsup:

[K Gardner]

59. Why is no one running ads with this highlighted? LIARS and CHEATS NO LONGER PASS CiC THRESHHOLD !

[K Gardner]

61. HAH ! Olbermann just ran her NPR comments then the Pledge. Said her claims were "FALSE".

[SunsetDreams]

73. Dan Abrams aired...

Two contradicting audio statements from her about this also tonight.

[krkaufman]

78. It is eminently Clintonian to grapple with the meaning of simple words

Such as...

denounce
pledge
apology

I'm sure we'll need to be hitting M-W several more times before the cycle has ended.

[Oilwellian]

79. The only "participation" I see in the FL & MI primaries....

is Hillary trying to win the votes that "aren't going to count anyway."

[Baby Snooks]

86. The Reality of HIllary Clinton

The reality of Hillary Clinton is she is a Republicrat using the Democratic Party and its base to get elected to office. She has no loyalty to the party itself and this is yet another example. Rules, and laws, do not apply to her. That is the Republican attitude.

By hook or by crook she will get the nomination. And probably destroy the Democratic Party in the process. And ensure that John McCain becomes president. But then, in her own words, she would prefer him to Barack Obama.

[tmoore411]

87. Obama said he wouldn't run for President

so as usual, an Obama supporter cherry picks some information that is perceived to be a slam on Clinton and every other supporter jumps on the bandwagon and immediately starts calling anyone who disagrees a shrill for Hillary. Here is a clue --POLITICIANS LIE-- all of them from the lowliest to the highest, it's how they get elected...I for one would much rather have one that admits to one thing -doing everything in their power to win- than one who disingenuously claims to be running a campaign without lies and without smears (those would be more lies btw).

[dbonds]

88. This is very important.

This shows she can not be trusted to keep her word.

[futureliveshere]

89. good one

Now I hope we send time discussing stuff like this on the MSM rather than what Rev. Wright said 6 years ago. This is more relevant as it relates directly to the candidates behavior and 'choices'.

[MH1]

93. Yep.

Funny how the Hillary supporters don't want to talk about Hillary's deception on this issue.

[FreeStateofWinston]

90. Pretty much sums up

What kind of president she would be. One that you can't trust.

GoBama!!!:patriot:

[JBoy]

92. A word-parsing weasel.

[fascisthunter]

91. She is DIsgustingly Craven

as for her supporters: the RNC is where you all belong.

[mod mom]

94. Has anyone posted Keith Olbermann's coverage of this? He showed the pledge?

[madwivoter]

96. Excellent post. This is a great example of Hillary's campaign management style...

And how she would handle things if she were to become President.

This is all very reminiscent of the bush administration and how they've handled their tactics all along, from their campaign strategies to running the country . They change the rules when it's convenient or when they don't get their way.

Hillary doesn't have much credibility anymore (in my view), she'll contradict herself at the drop of a hat if she starts to feel pressure or isn't getting her way.

I absolutely do not mean to offend any Hillary Clinton supporters here, because I feel very strongly that you have the right to support the candidate of your choice. I think people really need to look very closely at the candidate they support and see how their candidate is handling pressure and different situations that arise during this totally divisive election season.

Is your candidate:
Reactive or proactive?

Does your candidate use a:
Negative tactic or stand on their own platform tactic?

Does your candidate:
Stand for what you believe in or stand their ground whether right or wrong?

Would you:
Trust your candidate to teach your kids right from wrong?

Do you:
Trust your candidate to follow through on pledges and promises in the real world?

If your answers to those questions meet your expectations of your candidate, then stand strong.

For the record, I am an Obama supporter. I will vote for Hillary Clinton IF she wins the nomination fair and square. I just don't want to have to plug my nose while doing it.

:grouphug:

[texshelters]

97. I was the won that found the unfair, uncompetative way

to win without expending resources. See, I act like a Republican, so I can win!

Tex Shelters

[cui bono]

105. Then there was her saying something about MI and FL being valid and the results

should be counted as is... something like that. I forget the word she used but she clearly was saying there was nothing wrong with going ahead and seating the delegates as is since the results were legitimate and should be honored. Yeah, right.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? It was sometime this week. Probably saw it on Olbermann.

[MH1]

107. I saw that too.

I'm starting to be concerned about where she would lead the US, as President. (Not as scared as I am about McCain though, of course!)

She does seem to have an uncanny ability to suspend reality in her own mind.

[AntiFascist]

109. Again, the way she campaigns likely indicates how she would be president n/t

[99th_Monkey]

110. Hillary's following in GWB's footsteps: lie, cheat & steal to win the WH ~nt~

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

111. Pledges mean zip to Hill -her blind ambition is what guides her. If you can't see that you're blind.

[mckara]

114. We Can't Trust Hillary Clinton? Imagine That!

WE NEED PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA! :patriot:

[L0oniX]

118. Yep ...She wants to cheat the voters and the system. Her word means nothing. n/t