Remember when Hillary said She Wouldnt Try to Poach Obama's Delegates?? She was LYING!

[MadBadger]

Hillary: Pledged Delegates Can Switch Candidates

By Eric Kleefeld - March 9, 2008, 11:00PM

A few weeks ago the Clinton campaign shot down a report that they would seek to entice Barack Obama's pledged delegates into flipping over. Now the idea is being floated again — by Hillary herself.

"There are elected delegates, caucus delegates and super-delegates, all for different reasons, and they're all equal in their ability to cast their vote for whomever they choose," Hillary told Newsweek, when asked how she can win the nomination despite the current delegate math.

"Even elected and caucus delegates are not required to stay with whomever they are pledged to. This is a very carefully constructed process that goes back years, and we're going to follow the process."

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/hillary_pledged_delegates_can.php#comments


I am utterly speechless

[JackORoses]

1. if she tries this, the Party will end it

[K Gardner]

5. They haven't stopped her or balked at any of the other disgusting things she's done and is

in the process of doing. What makes you think anyone CAN do anything to stop Clinton from her maniacal destruction?

[UALRBSofL]

35. I don't think this is a legal issue to poach SD's

And in saying this it is common knowledge Jessie Jackson Jr. has been strong arming the AA SD's to endorse Obama or else take a chance of losing there seat in congress.

[K Gardner]

48. Its a moral issue. But then again, she knows nothing about morals.

[SunsetDreams]

56. as alleged by some SD's

Link to where Obama or Jessie Jackson said it?

[krkaufman]

73. The outrage, from what I'm reading, isn't in regards to "SD"s, superdelegates

It's that Hillary has declared *PLEDGED* delegates as fair game, as well.

"Even elected and caucus delegates are not required to stay with whomever they are pledged to."

[krkaufman]

72. Exactly. People talk about "party elders" stepping-in to bring reason to the campaign ...

... but does anyone think the Clintons will hold anyone else's opinion in more regard than their own? Do you think Jimmy Carter or Al Gore hold any sway with Bill and Hillary?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

64. Hope you're right.

[MonkeyFunk]

69. How?

by implementing a rule that she can't talk to Superdelegates?

You don't think obama's campaign is doing the same thing?

You guys are getting more and more deranged with each passing day.

[krkaufman]

74. Nice attempt at spin.

Except the post is outraged, explicitly, at Hillary's declaration that *PLEDGED* delegates are fair game.

"Even elected and caucus delegates are not required to stay with whomever they are pledged to."

[williesgirl]

2. She'll stop at nothing as evidenced by her endorsement of McSame over Obama. She's despicable. rec

[TwilightGardener]

3. Party elders? Gore? Biden? Teddy? Where ARE you guys?

Jesus fucking Christ, it's time to seriously obstruct the monster's progress.

[DJ13]

14. "Jesus fucking Christ, it's time to slay the monster."

Edited to family friendly stanards.



:)

[dchill]

18. O. M. G.

!

[TwilightGardener]

22. I've been saying that the Clintons are parasites on the Democratic party host

for some time now--that's pretty much how I see it. Prepare for a shitstorm of alerts, though--will probably be deleted.

[K Gardner]

27. You should put a warning up !! I'll have freakin nightmares for cripes sakes !

[Ken Burch]

37. "edited to family friendly standards"?

Er...what exactly did you edit OUT?

[DJ13]

53. Er...what exactly did you edit OUT?

You dont want to know.

Just think the movie Aliens with Hillary in it.



:hi:

[Ken Burch]

68. Okayyyyyyy......

That's a scary enough image.

[krkaufman]

76. Aw, bummer. I'd have loved to have seen that.

Hillaryious.

[krkaufman]

75. Do I hear someone knocking at your door...? n/t

[Danger Mouse]

30. this post is seriously out of line.

and has no place at du

[TwilightGardener]

32. Uh oh. OK. I'll change it.

[MadBadger]

39. Why was it out of line?

I normally think a lot of the stuff said about Hillary is out of line, but this wasnt.

[TwilightGardener]

45. I thought I was clearly speaking figuratively, using a common phrase, but...

you never know who may take things literally, I guess.

[MadBadger]

46. I know.

[krkaufman]

77. The "party elders, where are ya?" comment?

Or the "slay the monster" comment?

[JVS]

49. Seriously.

[moobu2]

4. If it’s our only hope for not have another republican president

it's ok.

[dkf]

6. Speechless, but not surprised. Typical.

[thoughtcrime1984]

7. This is going to get super-ugly

if something isn't done by the Party to end this. She can't and won't win.

[City Lights]

8. She has no intention of losing.

Winning. Winning. Winning. Winning. That's her measurement of success. Winning.

She will stop at nothing.

[Samantha]

19. In 2000, the term "win at all costs" was used to describe the Bush*

campaign. And that is exactly how they competed. In that regard, Hillary is indeed very Bush-Lite. She too will play to win at all costs. Can we Dems afford that?

[TwilightGardener]

24. Her supporters love it. They love the lies, the smears, the ruthlessness--

they have become what they have despised.

[City Lights]

44. Who will stop her? She's on a mission. eom

[JVS]

54. If she fought Bush half as hard and dirty as she fights now, she'd have won the primaries.

Hell, she'd have been declared queen for life by popular acclaim

[krkaufman]

79. Nominated for 'chuckle of the day' award. n/t

thx.

[DJ13]

9. Hillary.......lie......no way.........

Thats all she's DONE this entire campaign.

I'll worry when she STOPS lying.

:)

[zulchzulu]

10. If Hillaryman says that she won't do something, expect her to do exactly that in a day or two

Imagine having her as a friend. "Yeah, I'm just going to borrow your car to get some monster videos...be right back...", she'd say. You'd know your car was going to be in an accident and she wouldn't return phone calls.

That's her.

:rofl:

[krkaufman]

80. Hell, if *only* she was just wrecking it.

I'd be worried that she'd hold-up a bunch of convenience stores with it, but she'd do so fully-hooded to insure the cops come after me.

[Cha]

11. hilary lies when she gets up in the

morning just to flavor her bacon..of course she'll poach anything she can get her sticky fingers on.

[MadBadger]

12. That statement gives Obama an opening to come at her HARD

[angie_love]

13. shes officially nuts. beyond selfish and irrational.

[K Gardner]

15. Good lord.. did you see this in the comments.. !! (below..)

"I am a STRONG Senator Obama supporter (and delegate to the county convention) in a caucus state and in fact Senator Clinton in correct. Delegates elected in the precinct caucus are not required by any rule other than their sense of what is correct to stay with the candidate they supported in the caucus at the county convention. In Iowa the county convention is 15 March. Last week I received a call from the Obama campaign (a real person) making sure I was going to the convention and still supported Senator Obama. Later in the week we received a robo call at our home from the Clinton campaign stating if your are going to vote for Senator Clinton push 1. Do not know where the call would go from there because 1 was not pushed; however, the implication was clear - the Clinton campaign will pursue all delegates until the final vote has been taken."

Posted by nancydenis

They're already calling Obama pledged delegates

[krkaufman]

81. My brother lives in Iowa, and supported Obama at the caucuses ...

... but told me just last night that he'd received a robocall from Hillary's campaign regarding the upcoming convention.

This is not theoretical. It's happening.

[redstate_democrat]

16. She is only hurting herself

and making it that much easier for party elders to summarily dismiss her and her camp when it comes down to it. Right now she believes she is getting away with it, but she is really setting herself up, or, most accurately, she is being given just enough rope to hang herself. It is quite astonishing to watch.

[BumRushDaShow]

17. Why does this not surprise me? n/t

[zalinda]

20. And Obama lied when he said he wouldn't run

for President in 2008. Things change, like Obama poaching Clinton's super delegates.

I don't like either of these 2 people, but it seems like Obama gets a pass on everything and Clinton is ALWAYS the bad guy. He started the race baiting, but she got blamed for it. He poached the first super delegate, but she's getting read the riot act, and hasn't done anything yet.

But, yes, of course, Obama walks on water..........and watch him drown in the GE.

zalinda

[LisaL]

23. Obamaites always seem real happy if a super delegate switches

from Clinton to Obama.
Haven't heard any complains from them on that.

[MadBadger]

28. Thats because superdelegates do not directly represent the votes of real people

elected delegates do. This is no different than somebody in the electoral college deciding to vote for the other candidate.

[krkaufman]

83. Your interpretation of the post to which you responded is dead-on.

Unfortunately, the author of that post misinterpreted the OP. The OP is not about superdelegates; it's about Clinton's declaration that elected, *PLEDGED* delegates are fair game.

[paperbag_ princess]

78. I second your opinion nt

[krkaufman]

84. Unfortunately, that's an opinion that wholly misinterprets the meaning of the OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4997402&mesg_id=5018096

[krkaufman]

82. Putting aside the other accusations... the OP isn't about superdelegates

It's about Clinton's declaration that the elected, *PLEDGED* delegates are fair game.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

21. ABC news had the denial of intent to go after pledged Obama delegates Feb 19th.

They also offered some history about this phenomenon, at the end of the article.

From http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/dems-debate-poa.html :

"February 19, 2008 1:11 PM ABC News' Teddy Davis, Eloise Harper, and Mike Elmore Report:

Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said Tuesday that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., will not go after Sen. Barack Obama's, D-Ill., pledged delegates after an unnamed Clinton official told Politico that both campaigns would pursue such a course if there is a "stalemate" between Clinton and Obama going into this summer's Democratic convention. "We issued a very Shermanesque statement earlier today," said Wolfson on a conference call with reporters. "We have not, are not, and will not pursue the pledged delegates of Barack Obama. We think Sen. Obama's campaign owes you all a clear answer as to whether they will pursue our pledged delegates."

Asked if Obama would vow not to go after Clinton's pledged delegates, Obama spokesman Bill Burton told ABC News, "We're not going to do that. My question is: 'Why didn't they deny this yesterday?' It fits a pattern of their willingness to say or do anything to win the nomination." The Democratic campaigns debated the poaching of pledged delegates on Tuesday because a high-ranking Clinton official told Politico that as we get closer to the Democratic convention, "if it is a stalemate, everybody will be going after everybody's delegates." Politico also had Clinton spokesman Phil Singer saying he assumes the Obama campaign is going after delegates pledged to Clinton. ...

"They have total discretion. Pledged delegates are not bound, so they can change their mind as many times as they want," a senior Clinton adviser told ABC News last week...."

[IDemo]

25. Time to repost my thoughts from the first time this story hit:

I told myself a few years ago to quit using the phrase "I can't believe it". In an age where the outrages have become so regular a part of daily life in Bushmerica, the utterly unbelievable has become routine. Still, the daily headlines continue to push the envelope with sadly believable surprises.

It is with shock but no surprise that I read of "a senior Clinton official" telling Politico's Roger Simon that "all rules are out the window" in reference to campaign strategy, by stating that "pledged" delegates may now be vigorously recruited in the same fashion as super delegates are. This, supposedly in an end-run attempt to avoid the appearance of Super D's performing the subrogation for her at a brokered convention and denying the will of the people. While the Super D's are party functionaries or elites whose voting mandate is alternately described as 1) must reflect the will of the majority, or 2) must exercise their better judgment regardless of the will of the people, pledged delegates are widely regarded as virtual Electoral College votes. They are divided up in a number of different ways depending on the formula their state party uses, but ostensibly to reflect the intent of the voters first and foremost.

If the plan has now been officially denied by the Clinton campaign, it seems to follow a disturbingly predictable pattern of a surrogate chumming the media water, waiting for a response, and the campaign later denying any wrongdoing or involvement.

While the DNC rules may indeed indicate that any delegate, pledged or not, may change his or her mind, the expectation that they will has been virtually non-existent up until the current primary campaign. There simply has been no such closely divided contest heretofore where it would have made a difference, short of a mass migration. One could easily attempt to dismiss any complaints against such a tactic by arguing that both sides can take advantage of the rule(s), therefore, no foul. But whether one or both sides would choose to do so misses the point: while it may be open to debate how a super delegate casts her ballot, it should be taken as sacrosanct that a pledged delegate will remain true to the votes cast in his or her state's primary election or caucus. To do otherwise makes a mockery of the election process, rendering voters from all states irrelevant.

I am not irrelevant. You are not irrelevant. We are Democrats, members of a party whose very name honors the most defining part of a free society: open and fair elections. Our vote counts. Or it should.

I feel as strongly about this issue as any that have been raised in an already bitterly contentious contest. For any candidate (or their surrogates) to even suggest the possibility of circumventing the will of the people in such a manner is every bit as outrageous in its own way as the election theft of Supreme Court/Florida 2000.

[donheld]

26. Hillary lying, now that's a flash!

What, you saw her lips move?

[TAWS]

29. If anything, Obama will pick up more delegates from her at the state conventions

You have to realize that the people who show up to the conventions get to decide who to send to the national convention. I am confident that Obama supporters are loyal and more dedicated than Clinton supporters and will show up to the conventions.

[LisaL]

34. So, you'd be happy if Obama stole Hillary's delegates?

Figures.

[TAWS]

42. I didn't say it was right but that is how the process works.

Neither Obama or Clinton should actively try to seek out delegates this way. If the people at the convention decide on the delegates that are different from the vote, neither candidate can control that.

[LisaL]

59. She certainly didn't say she is going to actively seek

Obama's delegates, which didn't stop poster after poster being outraged about something.

[DerekJ]

31. Waiting on how HRC supporters will defend this. Watch them say, "Well, it's the rules" N/T

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Oh For God's Sake Can Any Of You Be Accurate Anymore? Holy Cow.

All she said is the SIMPLE TRUTH as to how the system works. There was not a THING wrong with what she said.

Unless you can show me WHERE in her statement she alluded to actually seeking out these delegates, twisting their arms, attempting to entice them, or otherwise trying to poach them, your OP will stand as the deceitful and inaccurate garbage that it is.

[MadBadger]

36. She said this is the process and we will follow the process.

[LisaL]

38. And if Obama said the same thing would you be complaining?

[MadBadger]

41. You damn right I would

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. Ummmmmmm Yeah, And The Problem There Is What? That's Poaching How?

I swear to god I've never seen the level of critical thinking sink to such lows in my life. Every day I think it can't possibly get worse, and then it does. How fucking sad.

[SunsetDreams]

58. You could be right but...

This leaves room to think otherwise:

"This is a very carefully constructed process that goes back years, and we're going to follow the process"

Who know's who's view is right? I can see the logic of the debate in the bold part though

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

60. Not Could Be, I Simply Am.

It is a totally benign and straightforward statement. Since when does saying calmly that they're going to follow the process something worthy of attack? WTF???

She didn't hint ANYWHERE that she would be actively trying to poach his delegates. She hinted that NOWHERE. This is a bullshit OP with nothing but deceit and smear at its core. Critical thinking has really gone bye bye around here.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. And Prior To Me, Not ONE Goddamn Poster In This Thread With Critical Thinking Skills Enough To Call

it out for what it was.

It's amazing how no matter what's posted anymore, the supporters will just lockstep and knee jerk their way in and not give any ponderence whatsoever. Use your fucking heads, will ya? You all look so friggin silly and reactionary it ain't even funny.

(disclaimer: I'm aware ponderence isn't a word. But I like it, and you know damn well what it means :P )

[grantcart]

47. If you click back to the original interview you can also see that she

is already backing off on the April 15th deadline on her taxes:





Well, we're going to do it in April, and I would assume that would be before .

[MadBadger]

51. I hope Obama holds a news conference tomorrow Morning and just destroys her

[grantcart]

52. too soon has to keep some ammunition dry before PA

[MadBadger]

55. keep the ammunition dry on the tax returns, but come out firing tomorrow about the delegates

[krkaufman]

85. I don't doubt that they'll postpone the release of their taxes beyond Apr 22nd.

I figure the 15th date was just to put-off any more questions for the next number of weeks, and then, come the 15th, they'll just say that unexpected complications are causing delays and they'll stumble and dissemble until the PA primary has passed.

[Cali_Democrat]

50. Hey Hillary

[TwilightGardener]

57. So now we're going to turn to cannibalism. This race is turning into

a fucking free-for-all, and the same empty-nutsack doormats who took impeachment off the table and caved and bent over for Bush and the GOP are now standing back, worried only about their own skins and not about the party. Sickening. At least guys like Daschle and Bradley are speaking up--but the ELECTED Dems--where the fuck ARE you????

[MadBadger]

61. The only poaching that is allowed is for Edward's delegates in Iowa

[Diane R]

62. I honestly believe the woman is going bonkers. Her reality has grown totally bizarre.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

63. Not surprised. It's all she's got left.

[killbotfactory]

65. So, basically, she doesn't mind if the elections are a sham

and the delegates overturn the will of the voters. Awesome! Go Hillary!

[easy_b94]

66. she is going to loose her sen. seat if she keep this up

[Lord Helmet]

67. her lips were moving of course she was lying

[MonkeyFunk]

70. And you don't think Obama's camp

has tried to sway Clinton delegates to them?

God, you people are crazy.

[krkaufman]

86. Again. The thread is about elected pledged delegates. Not superdelegates.

And there's no evidence or reporting about any statements from the Obama campaign about going after elected delegates pledged to Clinton.

Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean that monsters *aren't* out to get us.

[krkaufman]

71. Well, it's certainly consistent with my impression of Hillary's understanding of "pledged"

She didn't exactly stick with the spirit of her "pledge" regarding the Michigan and Florida votes.

[catgirl]

87. For her to even suggest this is an outrage

I'm actually starting to think she's crazy.