Nader is my guy if HRC becomes our Democratic Nominee

[madmunchie]

I am becoming so infuriated, ill and disgusted by the Clinton's, that if their behavior continues and HRC wins or more like conniving steals the Democratic Nomination I am voting for Nader. I have had it with this insane type of despicable behavior for power hungry people with NO morals

[Maddy McCall]

1. Cool. You won't be able to post at DU.

[hueyshort]

5. yeah. and we'll really miss you, man

[madmunchie]

6. Yeah, but I will be able to sleep nights knowing that I didn t particiapate

IN THE WINE AND SLIME THAT HRC SEEMS TO REVEL IN.

[WCGreen]

33. But you will have participated in probably getting a republican

elected again...

And if that's okay with you, then you really should admit it first and then seek treatment later...

[madmunchie]

83. HRC is looking more and more like a Republican.....afterall what is in a name

when HRC puts Obama down and endorses Cain?????

Votes FOR cluster bombs FOR IWR

Her behavior in this campaign is worse than DESPICABLE, I used to defend her now I just want to vomit over how naive I was to think that she was somehow better than the Repubs.

[Tarheel_Dem]

88. Tell that to these people

You know....Hillary's core support who won't vote for a "black" candidate. And what's most shocking is that these are women who pretend to be so concerned about Supreme Court appts., but will risk a McCain presidency, if they can't have their chosen one. Disgusting, no?

"One-in-five white Democrats (20%) say that they will vote for McCain over Obama, double the percentage who say they would switch sides in a Clinton-McCain matchup (10%). Roughly the same number of Democrats age 65 and older say they will vote for McCain if Obama is the party's choice (22%). Obama also suffers more defections among lower income and less educated Democratic voters than does Clinton.

In addition, female Democrats look at the race differently depending on the matchup. While 93% of women in the party say they would vote for Clinton over McCain, just 79% say they would support Obama over McCain.

A quarter of Democrats (25%) who back Clinton for the nomination say they would favor McCain in a general election test against Obama. The "defection" rate among Obama's supporters if Clinton wins the nomination is far lower; just 10% say they would vote for McCain in November, while 86% say they would back Clinton."

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=125 ...

So it seems you would be much better off making that argument to Clinton supporters. The only good news I see in results like this is that maybe when these kind of polls work their way through the black community, we'll wake up once and for all, and a viable third party emerges.

[salbi]

76. I may write in Obama's name if it comes down to it.

I want to be able to sleep at night too.

[madmunchie]

84. I just cannot condone ANYTHING coming from HRC right now

It is making me sick to have her as a Dem

[Exilednight]

11. Not True, as long as the OP doesn't post pro Nader, or anti Hillary posts....

they are just fine. There are plenty of other Democrats out there to support.

I refuse to support Hillary in the GE, but I won't post anything for whatever candidate I do finally choose to vote for if Hillary should win, but I will support other Dems who are up for election in Congress.

Currently I live in a repug represented district, but this election I am going to work my ass off to change that to a Democrat.

But for right now, it's all about getting Obama the nomination for me.

[bluestateguy]

16. Oh please

I'm not going to let people get away with that kind of tip-toe bullshit. These people should be identified and alerted and removed from DU.

[Exilednight]

22. So what you're saying is that although I am a progressive, I should be ...

removed because I only openly support 99% of Dems?

I can't be progressive and support the other 99% because I have a problem with the Presidential nominee?

As long as I don't openly criticize Hillary, or openly support another candidate, it doesn't really matter to you.

This is why this party keeps losing elections, it's unify with who we tell you to, or be gone.

Yeah, that's a real progressive value - NOT!

[Lyric]

69. Yep, that's pretty much it.

This isn't "ProgressiveValuesUnderground.com". Sorry.

[LWolf]

72. About Democratic Underground

<snip>

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

[Lyric]

73. From Skinner's post at the top of the page

Let me be clear: We expect our members to support the Democratic nominee for president. This expectation has been written into our rules since as far back as 2002, and we aggressively enforced this rule in 2004 after it became clear that John Kerry was the presumptive nominee. In other words, this is not a secret. If you are at all shocked or surprised by this, then you have not been paying very close attention. Don't even bother trying to convince us otherwise. This was decided long ago, we've already heard all the opposing arguments over and over a thousand times, and we're not going to change our policy.

By the way--nobody's claiming that progressives in general aren't welcome here. There are thousands of progressives here that will happily support the Dem nominee. My point was that when it comes down to it, this is a site that supports Democrats. Period. If there are "progressives" on this site who refuse to support Candidate X if said candidate gains the nomination, then they have two options: stay silent about their non-support, or be shown the door.

[LWolf]

74. Of course, in context,

"support" means that, at DU, if you are going to mention the nominee, you do so supportively. If you cannot do so supportively, you don't mention the nominee at all.

There are also thousands of progressives that will not be voting for the nominee in November.

That doesn't exclude anyone from the board, as long as they are not posting for another candidate, or against the nominee.

Skinner et al will not be following posters around, tombstoning everyone who doesn't say something "nice" about the nominee.

[Lyric]

75. Which is precisely

what I said.

If there are "progressives" on this site who refuse to support Candidate X if said candidate gains the nomination, then they have two options: stay silent about their non-support, or be shown the door.

[Exilednight]

77. Also from Skinner's post at the top of the page -

As usual, we will continue to permit constructive criticism of the Democratic nominee and of other Democratic candidates and officeholders. We will also continue to permit sincere, non-disruptive expressions of ambivalence toward the nominee. But we will not permit politically motivated attacks designed to tear down the Democratic presidential nominee.

Now honestly, after we pick a nominee, and if that nominee is Hillary, I will not even post sincere criticism of her.

[pauldg0]

29. He's making a statement that is true.....

...it's just that we have no candidate...

I won't vote for Nader, but I would vote for a Gore/Edwards ticket or longshot Edwards/Gore ticket if there is a brokered convention.

Sorry pal but the party is already fractured. I won't vote for either of the left-overs. Your wondering why? I'm a Republican cross-over, I'm a layed off engineering manager at sixty years old in Detroit without insurance. Hillary and Obama just do not turn me on at all.

I pray that John Edwards does not endorse either and I hope you think the same. Sounds like you not.

Anyway, I'm hoping for my choice above or I will not vote at all. I will not vote for McCain either...right now I am just plain lost.

[LWolf]

68. So you're going to become the DU gestapo,

racing around trying to convince mods to tombstone anyone you feel might not vote for the nominee?

Based on what, exactly? Their engaging in substantive discussions and refusal to engage election campaigners?

As long as a DUer does not post anything unsupportive of the democratic nominee at DU, no rule has been broken.

[Maddy McCall]

21. You weren't here in 2004, were you?

[Exilednight]

25. From the rules

As usual, we will continue to permit constructive criticism of the Democratic nominee and of other Democratic candidates and officeholders. We will also continue to permit sincere, non-disruptive expressions of ambivalence toward the nominee. But we will not permit politically motivated attacks designed to tear down the Democratic presidential nominee.

I won't even provide constructive criticism of Hillary, I'll just keep my mouth shut about her.

[BzaDem]

2. Yay for people who think the SCOTUS should be controlled by right-wingers for 20 years. Woohoo!

[IsItJustMe]

20. Can you honestly trust Hillary to do otherwise.

[Hippo_Tron]

79. Honestly I can, given that every Democrat since FDR has appointed liberal judges

[Telly Savalas]

82. I can honestly trust Clinton to choose nominees far superior to those that McCain would.

While she may be a bit too hawkish and pro-business for the tastes of many DUers, she's generally pretty liberal on the sorts of issues which Supreme Court judges rule.

On what grounds do you think she'd submit far right judges for nomination?

[Tarheel_Dem]

89. so as long as she appoints liberal judges..her hawkishness doesn't

bother you? Tell that to the kids who will die in Iran.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. is Cynthia still running?

[bluestateguy]

4. Then you'll have to leave DU

And you are now on my ignore list.

[madmunchie]

9. Why? Do you approve of the bullshit that Hrc is throwing at Barack???

I am furious over the things that Hillary has said about Barack and if her dirty tactics continue why should we ever vote for her?

[Ravy]

40. The Obama campaign labeled the Clintons as racists before SC.

It doesn't get much nastier than that.

[sammythecat]

42. Voting for the Democratic candidate

is more than voting for the individual. If you vote for Nader you will be doing your utmost to ensure Republican control of one third of the government. That means voting for Republican appointment of federal judges including the Supreme Court, Republican led agenda on the environment and social issues, Republican appointees to the Cabinet, and a Republican Commander-in-Chief.

That is what you'd be trying to ensure. Lives are literally at stake in this election. Your vote for Nader isn't going to help him or his cause. Nader's not going to get elected and you know that. Your vote will be for nothing less than the continuation of the Republican administration and it will be a vote against a Democratic administration.

[Chulanowa]

53. And how is Nader better, in any way?

I would rather have an obnoxious Dem than a Republican shill.

[zabet]

7. Thirsty?

[mythyc]

45. i see your kool-aid, and raise you a tub of lard . ; - )

[zabet]

46. Another Shallow Hal.

[mythyc]

50. you fold then?

interesting that you can post an inflammatory pic but spew chunks when one's thrown back at ya.

oh, but yours was just in fun eh? you gotta love people who can dish it out but can't take it

[zabet]

52. The pic I posted made fun of the supporters

not the candidate and their physical
appearance. That is a cheap shot to
make fun of a woman's weight. Period.
The Kool-aid Obama man pokes fun at
the cult meme that has persisted about
his supporters.
Gotta love people that cannot see the
difference between a comic representation
of a campaign meme and making fun of
a person's physical appearance.

[mythyc]

59. cheap shot? you should talk. lighten up with the self-righteous maudlin theatrics.

oh, i get it, it's ok to MEAN -- in grand sweeping generalizations no less -- your mean-spirited jibe at the "average" Obama supporter. unbelievable. you do mean it. made sure we all knew it -- "persisted about his supporters"? where? only in the paranoid delusions of your ilk and random talking head theatrics. thought you were really clever when you posted it eh? were you giggling to yourself? either that or you actually were as serious as bill o'reilly or wolf blitzer pucker at the camera commentary. either way it's sad this is how you get your rocks off and then play the PC card like your the grand inquisitor of propriety. please. the irony would be delicious if it didn't give such vicious indigestion.

.

as far as my post, yeah you got me, i think hillary is fat. damn. i've been caught. you got my game, the jig is up. i think everybody should dislike her because i think she's fat. (picture me waving my arms in the air here). are you aware of how abusrd that sounds?

there's a difference between a joke that has no point of reference whatsoever, one which was posted as an obviously fatuous "give me a break" jokey reply to that silly ass picture you posted (notice the jokey wink in the orignal reply, you dip?) and an intentionally-derisive insult fallaciously aimed in every direction that's a threat to you. difference between me and you is i don't mean it. hello pot, it's kettle.

i could give a rat's ass less about hillary's appearance. you're ridiculous: yeah, i'm experiencing such massive hemorrhaging hallucinations that i look at her skinny ass frame and see fat. and sure, why not, want everyone to hate her for it too boot. i started a whisper campaign no less. check your email, the pic is probably there by now!

give me a break.

i'm so fucking sick of you hillbot hypocrites. no not the actual level-headed supporters, but this renegade militia of dolts who pull sucker-punches every chance you get than cry foul at the slightest conceived hint of a fly-swat wave in your direction. your grandiloquent disagreement with anything that poses the slightest threat to your tunnel vision view of this race or anything besides your own demands for its outcome is just plan lame. this is the last time i reply. i should have known better that i couldn't even wink wink joke with you without getting it maniacally shaken back in every face in your proximity shame-on-you-squawk-out-a-load-of-postured-BS style.

ok, here comes your fantastic reply. whatever it is i could fuck's sake less. ignore not just on you, but every other hillroid who is this fascistly delusional. last time i reply. sorry DU, should have known better for the umpteenth time...

[zabet]

61. Hooray!! Ignore me PLEASE!

One less jack-booted brown
shirt Obama thug to deal with.
Yeah, this Hillroid went there.
Followed you to the shit hole.
Obamabrownshirts - support Obama
or you hate America. Sounds
like the sheeple of bush to me.

See ya, damn sure wouldn't want
to be ya.

[Tarheel_Dem]

91. very thin skinned, don't you know?

we've been called cultists, Obamatrons, and now "brown shirts" by said poster. Only pc when it comes to Hitlary, but certainly can't take it. She'll place you "ignore" now, because she clearly lost the argument, and doesn't want to risk future run-ins.

Good on ya.....

[Tarheel_Dem]

90. omg.....dude that is hideous. i feel like I'm looking at her true soul

[joshcryer]

8. I've predicted a huge split to Nader if Obama isn't on the ticket.

Just the youth vote would rebel.

[rpannier]

15. THis is the same Nader that said the country would be better off with bush as president

THey'll stay home before they vote for him.

[saltpoint]

10. I think Roe v Wade is a lot safer if more rather than fewer Democrats

are in Washington, including in the Oval Office.

Which appoints SCOTUS nominees for approval of the Senate.

It's all tied together. We need the big push. We can't always have our first choice in life. We can't USUALLY have our first choice in life, in fact, and certainly not in politics.

I urge you to reconsider and support the Democratic ticket.

[IsItJustMe]

26. I no longer trust Hilary. When it comes to the Supreme Court, Hillary will appoint whoever it is

politacally expediant to do so at the time. She has no convictions.

Her endorsing McCain over Obama has done told me everything I need to know, or will ever need to know, about HRC. PERIOD.

[saltpoint]

32. We disagree. I think we would have no worries about Roe with

Hillary Clinton appointing SCOTUS noms.

None at all.

[bvar22]

54. Roe might be safe with Hillary, but

...Consumer Protections, Class Action Lawsuits, & LABOR Protections would be up for grabs!

[saltpoint]

70. I'll take John Edwards' domestic agenda, please.

I'll have my vote ready at the second window.

[Medusa]

12. But Hillary has endorsed McCain

won't you be torn on who to vote for?

[rpannier]

13. Was he your guy in 2000 as well?

Just wondering.

Because if you were, I'll be more likely to vote for HRC in the unlikely event she gets the nomination.

Because this was the idiocy that was spewed in 2000 about Gore.

Oh, and remember Nader telling us in 2000 we'd be better off with bush as president

Yeah... nader is such a great guy.
A man of real principles.

[madmunchie]

85. No, it was Gore in 2000, and Kerry in 04' now I am getting so sick

of what is going on, that my statement is just showing how absolutely frustrated, disgusted and furious I am at HRC.

[not_too_L8]

14. bye

[yewberry]

17. Screw that.

I didn't vote for Clinton and she's not my first choice.

She is, however, my second, and I would vote for her every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[jody]

18. If BO or Hillary supporters follow your lead, then Repugs win again. When will y'all learn what

being a member of the Democratic Party means?

on anyone who deserts the Dem Party over a petty squabble between candidates.

[Danger Mouse]

19. gah. please, for the love of god...

don't vote for nader.

[still_one]

23. If Hillary is the Democratic nominee, I just won't vote for President in the general election

It was only two weeks ago when I would have voted for WHOEVER the Democratic nominee was, not anymore


When she said that she and mccain were qualified to president, while Obama was just a speech, that did it for me

[IsItJustMe]

27. It will be a sad day in hell, but many of us wont.

[still_one]

62. I hope she doesn't get the nomination, because it will be the first time I would have done this

but I just cannot vote for someone who intentionally sabatages the party in my view. I don't trust her

[Laelth]

24. I will vote for Hillary, but with no illusions.

Her Supreme Court nominees will be better than McCain's, and that means a lot, but if Hillary is elected I will abandon hope of any real progressive legislation.

-Laelth

[Tribetime]

28. I just keep thinking of McCain singing

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran, and I'll have to vote for the democrat.

[Malikshah]

30. Your argumentation is facile and your attitude is infantile.

The post shows that issues of morality are completely lost on you.

To allow for McCain to continue the regime's policies out of childish pique is the height of immaturity.

Now if this post was merely to grab attention...

Well, it amounts to the same low level of discourse.

Derision is what it deserves.

[madmunchie]

86. Sorry, but your "high road" drove into the ditch along with your candidate HRC.

The slime that she has been throwing at Obama is disgusting and WHY would I want to follow someone like that?????????

There is a reason that there is a SILENT majority, I am beginning to undertand that more and more as time goes on.

[Malikshah]

87. Funny how sooooo many Obama supporters assume I'm an HRC

supporter

Never liked her candidacy as I called it in 2000-- she wanted Gore to lose to open up the room for her later on. Same thing in 2004. Now she had Obama with her to make sure Kerry got the Nom and not Dean.

BOTH, in my opinion are manipulative shits --

In the end, though both are a damn sight better than McCain.

That being said.

Go pound sand and try to step away from the kool aid for a bit.

[Tarheel_Dem]

93. koolaid? tell that to Clinton's "white" supporters.....

"One-in-five white Democrats (20%) say that they will vote for McCain over Obama, double the percentage who say they would switch sides in a Clinton-McCain matchup (10%). Roughly the same number of Democrats age 65 and older say they will vote for McCain if Obama is the party's choice (22%). Obama also suffers more defections among lower income and less educated Democratic voters than does Clinton.

In addition, female Democrats look at the race differently depending on the matchup. While 93% of women in the party say they would vote for Clinton over McCain, just 79% say they would support Obama over McCain.

A quarter of Democrats (25%) who back Clinton for the nomination say they would favor McCain in a general election test against Obama. The "defection" rate among Obama's supporters if Clinton wins the nomination is far lower; just 10% say they would vote for McCain in November, while 86% say they would back Clinton."

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=125 ...

And this is what Clinton supporters are pointing to as a reason to vote her. Disgusting.

[Marie26]

31. Enjoy the ban! nt

[stop the bleeding]

34. God I hate these posts

[zulchzulu]

35. Why vote for Nader? LaRouche at least uses his own money to run

Nader is a conman. Ask any REAL Green if they like him...

[fujiyama]

36. I still hate Nader too much to ever vote for him

but if she's the nominee (and depending on the VP choice), I'll skip the presidency vote and vote for everything else down the ballot.

[Snarkoleptic]

37. It's that sort of thinking that brough us 7yrs of Chimpy McFuckstain.

[MonkeyFunk]

38. Why not just start a thread

announcing the results of your lobotomy?

[New Dawn]

39. Cynthia McKinney is better I think.

She will be the Green Party's presidential candidate. I'll be voting for her if the Clintons win the nomination.

[jaybeat]

48. Another vote for McLame. Thanks MFASOB! (nt)

[union_maid]

41. Not thrilled by Hil either, right at the moment, but....

She's got my vote in November if she's the one on the ticket, regardless of how she gets there, too. McCain can't and won't begin to address the problems we have. The outcome of this election affects real people and there will be two choices in November, no matter how many names are on the ballot. One will do his/her best to improve things and fix as much of what Bush has destroyed as possible. The other will be beholden to rightwing extremists, has no clue as to what to do with the economic crisis that's happening right this moment and wants to "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran." No way to I want to take a chance with the odds as they are.

[jaybeat]

49. See! Not all the Obamaites are loonies! (nt)

[Tarheel_Dem]

94. loonies? oh yeah, that's the way to win them over

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. So You'd Turn Into An Ignorant Selfish Prick, While Forsaking Your Family, Friends And World, Just

for sake of proving some point that no one will notice, huh?

Yay for you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. Ehhhh. Not Worth It.

[Mz Pip]

47. I'm no big fan of Hillary

but McCain is soooo much worse. No way will I waste my vote for Nader. Ever.

[jaybeat]

51. Thank you. Thank you. Perhaps I should stand over here.

It'll be over soon, miss.

http://www.jaylondonlive.com/

[Seabiscuit]

55. LOL! You and 12 other people in the country.

[Unsane]

56. Never thought I say it to a potential Nader voter, but more power to you.

A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for the destruction of the Democratic Party.

[Zorro]

92. Enough with the idiotic brinksmanship

You don't like Hillary. We all get it.

Only someone completely deluded would believe that supporting Clinton would contribute to the destruction of the Democratic party while simultaneously supporting a Nader voter in the same paragraph.

You're more Republican or Vichy Democrat than a real Democrat to support such a position.

[anonymous171]

57. Sorry to hear that. I would rather not vote than vote for that asshat.

[mzmolly]

58. Oh

Enjoy your delusion of perfection and all.

[PresidentObama]

60. This thread should be closed.

[MaineDem]

65. I agree. n/t

[JoFerret]

63. You deserve McCain

....we don't.

[Scout]

64. 'cuz of course Ralphie's motives are strictly altruistic--NOT n/t

[Upton]

66. What about Fla in 2000

how can you vote for Nader after that? Particularly the way he keeps denying he had any effect on the outcome. Vote for someone else, that's what I will do.

[LaurenG]

67. Don't do it

Take a breather from politics for a while and then revisit what you're thinking about later.

It's hard to have to vote for someone you don't want to see as president but McCain has already stated we'll spend another 100 years in Iraq if he's elected. There is much more damage that can be done by him than any of the other nominees. Just don't do it.

[LeftishBrit]

71. Well, thanks for helping to inflict McInsane on the world!

And I'm speaking as someone who hates New Labour so much that I haven't voted for either of our main parties since 1997 - but I would hold my nose and vote for Gordon Brown or even Blair if the alternative were someone like Bush or McNuts!

[backscatter712]

78. Fuck Nader.

I'm voting for the Democrat that wins the most pledged delegates and popular vote, even if the superdelegates put his opponent on the ballot.

I'm voting for Obama, even if I have to write him in.

[Hippo_Tron]

80. Sorry but I'd rather we have stem cell research than keep Hillary out of the White House

You have your head up your ass if you can't see that there are life and death differences for some people between Hillary and McCain.

[eek MD]

81. If Hillary gets the nomination, I don't think it matters who we vote for.

She's such a polarizing candidate that the far right will come out in droves just to vote against her. The independents will vote for McCain because he's seen as much more moderate. The AA vote, youth vote, and progressive vote will shrivel up, after all of the underhanded tactics she's taken against Obama..........What's left? I want to vote democratic in the fall as I always have, but if it's Hillary on the ticket, I'll certainly have to hold my nose if i decide to.

It wouldn't matter if you stayed home, voted for nader, voted for hillary, or voted for Al Gore as a write in... The result will be the same.... President McCain.

Just my personal opinion. But then again, what do I know?

[proud patriot]

95. I'm locking this thread

This is not conducive to the goals of
Democratic Underground.