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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:04 PM
Original message
Hubris.
hubris -- excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.

-Offering the Vice Presidency to the candidate you are losing to.
-Telling voters that do not go your way that they don't count, or they are too black, or they drink lattes.
-"Yes she will" vs. "Yes we can"
-Demeaning idealism in favor of the cyicism that gets the media to slobber.
-Thinking you can outsmart the American people after they've been fooled once.
-Demanding Michigan and Florida be counted in a way that only benefits you.

Hillary believes she is owed the Presidency. She is not. Period.

I bring this up because hubris is not a trait that has served our current President well.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. hubris goes before the fall
my favorite saying
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I've been saying that about Bush for 7 1/2 years.
It's been a long 7 1/2 years.....
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. God, it really has.
.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. That Fall Has Taken Way Too Long nt
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. the war proped him
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. it never fails, see somebody get too full of themselves and bang on the ground
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. Or, in this case, three weeks after the fall
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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
55. Must be something in that...
In all the classic tragedies, from Oedipus to Shakespeare (MacBethThe Scottish Play, anyone?) it's HUBRIS that brings down the protagonist.
There's even a chorus, be it Greek or 3 witches to drive the point home.

Overweening Pride.

Tends to screw up the cognitive processes, even in real life.

And before anybody flames me...I am NOT pointing any fingers.
I am making a general observation, 'K? :hi:
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nsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R.
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EmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. I have had quite enough hubris for the past 7 years, thank you very much.
Clinton appears to be the embodiment of hubris. Obama, if anything, is the antithesis. Their policies may be very similar, but there is a lot more to the president than policy. Obama's traits are exactly what this country needs right now, to heal after the bush presidency.
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bellasgrams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Oh pa lee zzzz, enough already, He's NOTHING. WAKE UP.
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EmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Another insightful, compelling post.
Ok, you convinced me. :eyes:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #19
41. Gee, I guess Hillary DOES poll well in the uneducated demographic
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not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
45.  A Speech, thats all she has
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. And look at how out-of-touch with reality her campaign is
ring any bells for you?
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. You're so right. I'm wichoo...
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yea, I hate to see her go out like this...
...it's painful to watch because I think probably, deep down in her heart, she's a good person. It's amazing what the pressure cooker of a race can do to a person. If nothing else, how Obama has handled all of this gives me certain measure of how he'll perform as president. I'm liking what I see so far.
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Everybody deep down is a good person.
Have you ever seen an evil baby? We are all born innocent.
Stuff happens, and then we start making choices.

Over time some people's choices disconnect them from their conscience,
where integrity lives. Ego has a way of pretending to be integrity.
It's not.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. "Offering the VP to the candidate you are losing to" is Alice falling through the looking glass.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wyoming concurrs
Looks like the good citizens of Casper, Cheyenne, Laramie, Gillette, and Jackson Hole agree with your take on the situation.

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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Great thread...K&R
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. It may be hubris -but it shows the determination to do what it takes to win
You think the Republicans didn't show exponentially more hubris for all those years that they were winning elections?

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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. yes, and what did they do with all that hubris?
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 07:25 PM by dave29
They got us into a war that is killing our country. She voted to authorize that war, because she thought it would make her look strong. Of course she wishes she could have it back -- it has not helped her at all.

In short she did it at the time because she thought it would help her get elected. Again with the hubris.

This is why we are voting for change.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. The only change you'll get with that tune is watching McCain's ugly mug
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 08:01 PM by depakid
instead of Bush's.

Oh, and of course, you'll have an extremist Supreme court for what most of your adult life.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I think your red phone has been ringing too long
There's no tune older than the one Hillary's been whistling
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
50. So to beat them you have to become them
That way lies ignoring the constitution, approval of torture and the misuse of public office for personal gains.
Hmmm...
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. You know that's not what I said
but yes, politics is a dirty game -and if you're not willing to do what it takes to win, then you ought NOT to be the party's nominee. Plain and simple.

That holds true for Dukakis and Kerry every bit as much as it does for Obama. Or for the Democratic Congress -who still loses almost every major policy battle to the far right.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. Once? We've only been fooled...
ONCE? :) You forget one - "Telling voters that do not go your way" that it's because they voted in caucuses.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. why would we want someone that motivates voters as our President?
She asks us.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. No goddamn hopemongering!
I've EARNED this! It's my TURN! I'm freakin' INEVITABLE! "I'm not gonna be ignored here, Jack!"*
:)


*The quoted portion: Glenn Close to Michael Douglas in "Fatal Attraction."
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. She bottles and sips her bath water like a fine champaign


Perhaps the bubbles go to her head.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. To be fair, Mrs. Obama probably does too.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. Saying on teevee it'll be over Feb 5th. nt
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. "I will win.. well, it WILL be me. No, I've never thought about losing."
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. K/R.
:kick:
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Even the ancient Greeks knew huberis was the path to destruction
If memory serves, every Greek tragedy I read in high school dealt with someone or another suffering from overweening pride and paying an awful price for it.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. Hubris is an American trait.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. LOL
.
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. Is the latte comment something that really happened? That's 3 or so times I've
seen it mentioned tonight, Did Hillary say it?
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
42. One of her surrogates did.
Do you really think Queen Shill would ever say something herself that couldn't be parsed into the "Who, me?" defense?
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. Yes.
She said McCain was better than Obama herself.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #51
63. Like always, she gave herself an out
It's called "implausible deniability", but the Clintonistas lap it up.

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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
32. Can you imagine the uproar from us if say. . oh. . I don't know. .
Nancy Reagan or Laura Bush tried to run for the Senate based on their husband's career? What would happen if they then turned around and ran for president and seemed to think it was their birthright? This country, last time I checked, is NOT a hereditary monarchy but try telling THAT to the would-be-Queen.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
34. That word sums up my objections to Hillary perfectly
Hubris = Hillary
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istopforcookies Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Queen Clinton?
No.

Try again.

Its Senator, soon to be President Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Saying QueenQueenQueenQueenQueenQueenQueen, is not going to make me vote for Senator Obama.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. It's far worse that queen
And for the record, I don't care if I change your's or anyone else's mind.
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. No.
She has to get the nomination first. And, that is really unlikely to happen. She's attempting to change the rules after the MI/FL primaries (very bad sportsmanship). She's in a situation where it is mathematically impossible to go into the convention with a lead of any sort. And She indirectly endorsed the presumptive Republican candidate over the Democratic front-runner. These things do not even demonstrate anyone even competent to be President.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Hubris has seemed to have screwed up her judgement in the campaign...

very important to note how they might be running the country under even more pressure. Obama has shown that he can maintain his cool.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
36. Hubris? You must be referring to the very junior senator from IL
:eyes:
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. LOL Hillary has only 1 more term than he has.
He has more years in state legislature though.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. & he's been in public office far longer than her -recommending
:kick:
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #38
64. State legislature
The obvious path to the White House.
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not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. nothing to support your statement?
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not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
43. k&R
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stillrockin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
46. Well put.
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Utopian Leftist Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
48. H = Hillary
There is also another wonderful Greek 'H' word for Hillary: hamartia. It means "fatal flaw." As in the fact that the Clintons have tried to move the party too far to the right and are more governed by personal ambition than appropriate concern for the country.

And when one stands for nothing (on principle) one will fall for anything!
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KaptBunnyPants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
49. My mom thinks Hillary is owed the presidency too.
It's the strangest thing. First of all, because the presidency is not appointed by seniority. Secondly, because Biden, Gravel, and Dodd have put in way more years of service to the Party than Hillary has, and she supported Hillary from the beginning. If it were based on seniority, why don't we just give it to Robert Byrd and be done with it?
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
52. Hubris was the greatest sin against the gods in Ancient Greece
I believe that what we are seeing is precisely because of hubris. Senator Clinton cannot believe that people would not select her, HER for president. Her pride and ambition are more important to her than the well being of this country. That is why it is time for the party to stop her campaign.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
53. Hillary Rocks.
I so hope she ends up taking the nomination. GOD that's gonna feel good.

:bounce:
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. I'm with ya!
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mculator Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
57. Hubris = Thinking you can win presidency when you admit you cant manage not losing a sheet of paper
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 04:53 PM by mculator
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. Good point.
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JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
58. "Yes she will" vs. "Yes we can"
I love this one! So true...
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
62. Hubris pisses off the Gods like no other...
I don't wanna be standing near Hillary when Tyche and Nemesis visit her!

Thanks for the great post by the way!
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
65. I think that's her middle name.
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