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Hillary Clinton Refuses To Sign Anti-Torture Pledge from AFC! Obama Did, Clinton RESERVES EXCEPTION

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:00 PM
Original message
Hillary Clinton Refuses To Sign Anti-Torture Pledge from AFC! Obama Did, Clinton RESERVES EXCEPTION
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:29 PM by Dems Will Win


In 2006, Clinton reserved an exception to torture in the case of "something imminent". Bill Clinton also approves torture in the IDIOTIC ticking-time bomb MSM favorite question that no politician should EVER answer in the affirmative. AND BOTH CLINTONS HAVE!

Here is the American Freedom Campaign Pledge:

THE AMERICAN
FREEDOM PLEDGE



We are Americans, and in our America we do not torture, we do not imprison people without charge or legal remedy, we do not tap peoples phones and emails without a court order, and above all we do not give any President unchecked power.

I pledge to fight to protect and defend the Constitution from assault by any President.

http://www.americanfreedomcampaign.org /


Here is the lady who refused to sign what you just read:

Hillary Equivocates on Torture


Posted on Oct 17, 2006

From CNN
Hillary Clinton

Despite public statements to the contrary, Hillary Clinton now says she is amenable to the idea of the government using torture in some circumstances.

Ben Smith of the N.Y. Daily News:

Despite her apparent opposition to torture, Hillary Clinton said in a Daily News editorial board meeting that the practice is acceptable in some circumstances.

At Daily News editorial board meeting, it emerged that shes not actually against torture in all instances, and that her dispute with McCain and Bush is largely procedural.

She was asked about the ticking time bomb scenario, in which youve captured the terrorist and dont have time for a normal interrogation, and said that there is a place for what she called severity, in a conversation that included mentioning waterboarding, hypothermia, and other techniques commonly described as torture.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/200601017_h... /

HILLARY'S TORTURE



Hillary Clinton flip-flopped on torture last night (and slapped Bill upside the head while doing it), saying, As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period.

Thats quite emphatic, but in October, she had quite a loophole, and she explained it in depth to the Daily News, in response to a question from Publisher Mort Zuckerman. You can listen to it here. Or here.

Those are very rare, but if they occur, there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing it, she said, before expalining in detail that methods like bribery work better than torture. But she was willing to go for harsh methods in the ticking bomb scenario.

In those instances where we have sufficient basis to believe that there is something imminent, yeah, but then weve got to have a check and balance on that.


Camp Clinton did not explain what changed her mind.

Hillarys slap at Bill, as well as debate moderator Tim Russerts question are after the jump.

- Michael McAuliff

RUSSERT: I want to move to another subject, and this involves a comment that a guest on Meet the Press made, and I want to read it, as follows: Imagine the following scenario. We get lucky. We get the number three guy in Al Qaida. We know theres a big bomb going off in America in three days and we know this guy knows where it is. Dont we have the right and responsibility to beat it out of him? You could set up a law where the president could make a finding or could guarantee a pardon. (THIS IS WHAT BILL CLINTON SAID, SO HE SAID YES TO THE TORTURE EXCEPTION TOO)

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2007/09/hillarys-to...


If you are concerned that the next President NOT torture, so our troops are not tortured in return, please vote for the one candidate who signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge and help defeat the return of the Clintons and the probability of torture exceptions to the White House.

Even though Hillary FLIP-FLOPPED and now says she's against torture, WHY WON'T SHE THEN SIGN THE ANTI-TORTURE FOR GOSH SAKE!?!?! Note the pledge also includes other important things, like warrants and protecting the actual Constitution!

PLEASE RECOMMEND IF YOU ARE AGAINST THE PRESIDENT EVEN THINKING OF APPROVING TORTURE ON THIS DAY BUSH APPROVED WATERBOARDING

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easy_b94 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. There is no excuse for hill to have..
Yellow false teeth

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Bill Clinton Was The First US President To Make Torture Official Policy
Most people don't realize this, but it was Clinton - not Bush - who started the practice of outsourced torture, which is euphemistically called "extraordinary rendition".
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. It's true, Bill Clinton began rendition in 1990s--a crime against humanity!!!!!
Hillary did not object to torture back then, otherwise we would have heard about it.

Fact Sheet: Extraordinary Rendition (12/6/2005)

Beginning in the early 1990s and continuing to this day, the Central Intelligence Agency, together with other U.S. government agencies, has utilized an intelligence-gathering program involving the transfer of foreign nationals suspected of involvement in terrorism to detention and interrogation in countries where -- in the CIA's view -- federal and international legal safeguards do not apply. Suspects are detained and interrogated either by U.S. personnel at U.S.-run detention facilities outside U.S. sovereign territory or, alternatively, are handed over to the custody of foreign agents for interrogation. In both instances, interrogation methods are employed that do not comport with federal and internationally recognized standards. This program is commonly known as "extraordinary rendition."

The current policy traces its roots to the administration of former President Bill Clinton. Following the attacks of September 11, 2001, however, what had been a limited program expanded dramatically, with some experts estimating that 150 foreign nationals have been victims of rendition in the last few years alone. Foreign nationals suspected of terrorism have been transported to detention and interrogation facilities in Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Diego Garcia, Afghanistan, Guantnamo, and elsewhere. In the words of former CIA agent Robert Baer: "If you want a serious interrogation, you send a prisoner to Jordan. If you want them to be tortured, you send them to Syria. If you want someone to disappear -- never to see them again -- you send them to Egypt."

Administration officials, backed by Department of Justice legal memoranda, have consistently advanced the position that foreign nationals held at such facilities, outside U.S. sovereign territory, are unprotected by federal or international laws. Thus, the rendition program has allowed agents of the United States to detain foreign nationals without any legal process and, primarily through counterparts in foreign intelligence agencies, to employ brutal interrogation methods that would be impermissible under federal or international law, as a means of obtaining information from suspects.

The Department of Justice's arguments notwithstanding, the extraordinary rendition program is illegal. It is clearly prohibited by the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Forms of Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment, ratified by the United States in 1992, and by congressionally enacted policy giving effect to CAT.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/extraordinaryrendition/222...
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EmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. If you need any proof that Hillary is a DINO, this is it.
Absolutely despicable.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. She is more than a DINO, she is a human rights abuser
and an enabler of torture!
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is Hillary a war mongering republican? if not, wy wont she sign this.
There is NEVER an excuse for torture.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Presidents make their pledge to the American People.
Not individual organizations.

Hillary Clinton has stated quite clearly she opposes torture in all forms.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. YEs but if she was for it before she was against it for the primaries, how can you be CERTAIN
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:08 PM by Dems Will Win
she REALLY REALLY REALLY is against it??

And don't forget Bill is for the torture exception and HE never flip-flopped on it like Hillary did (just for the primaries)

This should be the issue put before the voters of Pennsylvania:

Can you be SURE Hillary won't ever torture?

HAve her sign the pledge and I'll be quiet.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I would prefer my President
not signing "pledges" to individual organizations.

It's a very bad precedent, and I actually think it makes Obama look weak to have done so.
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f the letter Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. How is agreeing not to violate the Consitution weak?
Let alone bad precedent? i can't find anything in the pledge that isn't in the Constitution. Can you?

i'm surprised Obama signed it though, that's a good indication he's not as bad as i thought.. of course it's not like the pledge has any teeth.
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BobRossi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Then why won't she sign?
She won't release her tax returns either. Hillarious sure has much to hide.
She'd fit right in in shrubworld.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I find myself unimpressed
by your hyperbolic banter.


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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. War, Cluster Bombs, Iran.. There is no way I could trust her in command of the armed forces.
I do not trust Bush! I do not want Bush 2.0! NO MORE BUSH/CLINTON!

K and R
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. well, she might want to torture some of us
so she wants to keep her options open.
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southern_belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. k & r
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. Clintons loves her some torture and cluster bombs!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. It makes Hillary feel powerful, to be as cruel as the cruelest of men
The gods spare us such a fate to be lead by such an insecure individual.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hillary Clinton Presses Bush to End Torture
By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:21:11 PM EST
Tags: torture, Hillary Clinton (all tags)
Here's a letter Hillary Clinton sent to George Bush today...I'm surprised I haven't read about it anywhere.
Clinton Calls on President to Support Humane and Effective Standards for Interrogation, Urges President to Remove Veto Threat from Intelligence Authorization Bill
Washington, DCSenator Hillary Rodham Clinton today called on President Bush to remove his threat to veto the Fiscal Year 2008 Intelligence Authorization Bill, which applies the U.S. Army standards for interrogation to U.S. intelligence agencies and contractors, and bans the practice of waterboarding. In a letter to the President, Senator Clinton urged him to live up to the standards that America has promoted around the world.

Our nation and our President must strongly and unequivocally stand for the rule of lawespecially when we are under threat from an enemy that embodies the antithesis of our values, Senator Clinton wrote. In the process of accomplishing what is essential for our security, we must hold onto our values and set an example we can point to with pride, not shame.

The text of Senator Clintons letter is below the fold:


February 12, 2008
The Honorable George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, D.C. 20500

Dear Mr. President:

Nothing is more damaging to our moral authority and global standing than a failure to live up to the standards that we have embraced and promoted around the world.

I write you today to urge you to stand for American values and remove your threat to veto the FY 2008 Intelligence Authorization Bill (H.R. 2082). I urge you to support the humane and effective standards for interrogation adopted by the U.S. Army; to reverse your opposition to applying these standards to the intelligence agencies, including the CIA and private contractors; and to unequivocally oppose practices like waterboarding, which are immoral, illegal, ineffective, and un-American.

I have met and spoken with some of our nation's most experienced and respected military leaders. They have told me that "torture is unlikely to produce accurate or actionable intelligence," and can damage our security by producing false information. Many studies, including a 2006 report by the Intelligence Science Board, have reached conclusions that support this view. I believe, as do the military leaders I have consulted, that any sign of wavering on this issue by the Commander-in-Chief "will drop down the chain of command like a stone, and the rare exception will fast become the rule."

Our nation and our President must strongly and unequivocally stand for the rule of law especially when we are under threat from an enemy that embodies the antithesis of our values. In the process of accomplishing what is essential for our security, we must hold onto our values and set an example we can point to with pride, not shame.

Torture is morally wrong. It is against the law. It betrays our most fundamental values, damages our credibility around the world, and harms U.S. national security. I strongly urge you to bring the CIA into conformity with our values and principles by requiring that it abide by the Army Field Manuals interrogation techniques.

I am confident that whoever occupies the White House next January Democrat or Republican will take this important step and apply a single humane and effective standard of treatment that applies to the entire U.S. government. You have an opportunity to put our country on the right course now, so that the United States can once again lead by example.

Sincerely,

Hillary Clinton

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. How can anyone believe her after what she said in 2006 about "something imminent"??
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Hillary's lip service to get her over the hump of the nomination
She supports NAFTA too, but convinced the gullible Ohioans that she was their champion. What a piece of work she is!
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. The IWR vote, cluster bombs, torture, and people wonder why I can't support her.
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Well if you don't vote for her you dont count they think..
Yet there is a DAMN good reason we are AGAINST Clinton!

I guarundamntee you that had it been Obama VS Edwards this would have been a FAR better race.
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. Elect Hillary! The Pro-Torture Candidate
This message brought to you by the DLC aka GOP!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. She will torture and imprison antiwar Americans
not to mention throw a hissy fit for daring to oppose her warmongering policies.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. She's gotta look tough as
nails, right?
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. What - is Hillary watching too much 24 with the Repukes?
All the experts will tell you that the Jack Bauer scenario just does not work! Even under the ticking time bomb scenario what makes people like Hillary think the terrorist would give the correct information? She has the same stupid Jack Bauer fantasies as the Repukes!
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. reserves exception? Is that like a signing statement.
bad sign for things to come with an HRC predicency.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. drip drip
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. OMG - is this really true? She's running in the wrong party. nt
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ruh roh Raggy this is getting much bigger and hole(s)
for both candidates keep getting longer, darker and bigger.

God R's are gonna have every bit of dirt researched on our nominee(s) before the GE, and it will be because they were reading DU - the irony
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canadian_is_cold Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
30. John Edwards refused to sign it too n/t
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R. Thanks for this important post.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. kick
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