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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:25 PM
Original message
Winning Ugly
http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2008/03/winning-ugly.ht...

Winning Ugly
The Anonymous Liberal


As I survey the landscape of the Democratic primary race, I'm convinced that the only plausible path to the nomination that remains for Hillary Clinton is one which is so ugly, so divisive, and so self-destructive that no Democrat--even those who prefer Clinton to Obama--should root for that outcome.

Looking at the states with contests remaining and the way the delegates are aportioned, it seems highly unlikely that Clinton will be able to do anything more than shave a little bit off of Obama's lead. She did about as well as she could have hoped for on Tuesday in two of the biggest states remaining, and she came away with only a miniscule net gain in delegates. And as long as Obama maintains his fairly significant lead in pledge delegates and continues to match up well against McCain in general election polls, it seems highly unlikely that Clinton will be able to woo enough super-delegates to make up that difference.

The only circumstance under which I can see enough super-delegates flocking to Clinton to push her over the top--and thereby nominate the candidate with fewer earned delegates--is if Obama's image becomes so badly tarnished over the next few months that he no longer seems like a viable general election candidate. Or to put it another way, the super-delegates aren't going to overturn the outcome of the pledged delegate race unless they are convinced that Obama is damaged goods and that nominating him would lead to defeat. That means that Clinton's only plausible path to the nomination is to completely savage Obama's image and reputation. As Jonathan Chait put it today:

Last Tuesday, voting in states that were especially Clinton friendly and represented 38% of the remaining elected dlegates, she managed to reduce Obama's elected delegate lead by about 3%. Even if every primary going forward was as successful as March 4, she couldn't get anywhere near a 75-delegate deficit...

...Unless, of course, she just rips his guts out and disqualifies him as a plausible president. That's the only move she can make that could have any hope of getting her elected delegate lead under 100, and persuade a majority of uncommitted superdelegates to back her.


snip//

That said, those supporters and donors and staff need to think long and hard about what lengths they are willing to go, and what strategies they are willing to support, in order to see their candidate prevail. How ugly a win are they willing to stomach? If the Clinton campaign decides that it's going to try to kneecap Obama so badly that party officials will have no choice but to choose Clinton (and thereby reverse the outcome of the elected delegate race), are they okay with that? Have they thought about how that might affect the Democratic party? Is winning in that way worth it?

I don't think most Clinton supporters have really given this much thought. But they need to.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. knr
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. It will be an ugly win, regardless of who "wins" it. n/t
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Not necessarily.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. In that case,
I can only say that "ugly" is also in the eye of the beholder.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
:thumbsup:
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. People seem to think Hillary has some sort of devious plan...but I don't even think she knows what
she's doing anymore.If she's trying to get the SDs on side, she's done a terrible job thus fair. She's got like, one, in the past week.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Agree and that's what's scary about her
she doesn't know what she's doing and hasn't had a plan since Super Tuesday.

Also Welcome to the DU! :hi:
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keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is a good point from the article also:
"If the Clinton campaign decides that it's going to try to kneecap Obama so badly that party officials will have no choice but to choose Clinton (and thereby reverse the outcome of the elected delegate race), are they okay with that?"

http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2008/03/winning-ugly.ht...
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. I spent much of my youth during the 1990's
defending the Clintons against accusations that they played dirty politics and were corrupt. I can not count the arguments and debates I had with republican friends and acquaintances during the Clinton Adminsitration. I was always jumping to their defense.

She had me fooled right up to the primary in my state, Wisconsin. I even donated to her campaign and was completely undecided on who to vote for. I thought I would end up making my mind up in the voting booth. A couple of days before the primary I decided to vote for Obama, but still had positive feelings for Hillary. I feel now, after the events of the past couple of weeks, like a fool. I even wrote an e-mail defending her to Josh Marshall that he posted on his site and was referenced by Rachel Maddow when Chris Matthews was acting like an ass. Yesterday, I e-mailed Hillary's campaign telling them how disappointed I am, that I won't vote for her if she is the nominee, and asked for my donation back!

Hillary's choice to campaign ugly has effected me on a very deep level. I feel betrayed.

I should have never forgiven her for the "baking cookies" comment. I would have been so much better off.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You're not at all alone in feeling betrayed.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 05:45 PM by speedoo
For most of us, the betrayal was her politically motivated, immoral IWR vote. But there were plenty of other betrayals by Hillary.

on edit: IMO she has betrayed every Democrat, certainly every progressive. Sooner or later, a lot more people will figure that out.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Same here
I defended the Clintons the whole time they were in office and for years afterward. I donated a fairly large amount of money (large for me) to the Clinton Library. I'm on that list along with all those billionaire Saudis that they are refusing to release. It makes me sick I even donated and wish I could get my money back. Not so long ago I realized that when they were in office they did nothing for the liberals, couldn't care less about us...I feel completely betrayed. This latest is the biggest betrayal of all.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Winning at any price has serious blow back, and I would add that she has already crossed the line
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:25 PM by IsItJustMe
in that regard and there will already by repercussions from it. How bad? Who knows?
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I can't believe Chelsea or Bill havn't sat her down and asked her to look at where she's going...
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:27 PM by galaxy21
She was a great democrat and now she risks becoming a pariah in her own party.
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Are you kidding me? They are as power-hungry as she is
and possibly worse.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I think she's going to lose her seat in the Senate.
I'd say, put a fork in her, she's done.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. That, I wouldn't doubt. I think she is in self -destruct mode right now and is unraveleling.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 09:56 PM by IsItJustMe
She has been very off-the-wall in some of the speeches she has been giving.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I agree.
She almost seems a little manic at times. Being passionate is one thing, but it's beyond that sometimes.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just as Bush razed Iraq, Hillary's NoExitStrategy is crushing the spirit of the Democratic Party.
Thanks for posting this link, babylonsister.


Winning Ugly

By The Anonymous Liberal
March 07, 2008


As I survey the landscape of the Democratic primary race, I'm convinced that the only plausible path to the nomination that remains for Hillary Clinton is one which is so ugly, so divisive, and so self-destructive that no Democrat--even those who prefer Clinton to Obama--should root for that outcome.

.....(more)




I spent considerable time in the 1990's, in defense of these people from the rabid right wing assault aimed at them.


Now I feel a pervasive, sickened and furious sense of betrayal. Frighteningly, this woman and her husband are neither concerned about the future of the Democratic Party nor the ultimate fate of our damaged country.


They are taking aim at the campaign of an honorable opponent who has captured the spirit and imagination of what America can once again achieve, and are pulling the trigger on Americans' hope, because we all stand in the way of their blind ambition.


It is time for the elders of our Party to take a walk up the lane at Chappaqua.



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shrub chipper Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Wow
What a lot we all have in common.

I , too, defended them throughout the 90s even when they were pretty indefensible. I don't know how many family gatherings were ruined by that defense.

I feel very betrayed after taking off my blinders and seeing them act out all the base accusations that their enemies have accused them of doing all these years.

I remember being so excited by Bill's first Presidential Inauguration that my family all went and froze our asses that very cold day in January.

I never blamed them for losing the 40 YO Democratic Majority in Congress. I never blamed her for destroying any hope of Universal Health Care for a generation. I never blamed them for his fool=hardy behavior that led to an Impeachment and cost us the Presidency in 2000.

I was even going to overlook het Iraq War vote and say she was one of many good candidates that we had this year.

Then came Kyle_Leiberman.

Then, Bill was Bill in SC .

Then she said the 'as far as I know' thing

and then she all but endorsed a war mongering Republican over the very likely Democratic Nominee.

No more.


She crossed the line and has seriously made me rethink my allegiance to the Clintons all these years.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. It was the spineless "Impeachment Off the Table" Democratic Congress who crushed the party's spirit.
Not to mention the silencing of any shred of tangible, policy-specific leftism in the primaries via the media blackout of Kucinich and the pre-Super Tuesday ejection/drop-out of Edwards. Laying the "crushing of the Party" at Hilary's feet is a bit pathetic. No fan of Hilary here, but come on.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. I defended the Clintons, too...
To family and friends and co-workers....the endless spewing of hatred on the part of my brother led, finally, to me telling him to knock off the politics all together. We don't talk much anymore.

This year has been very telling in terms of my misunderstanding of them and the depths of my own denial of who and WHAT they really are.

I am extremely disappointed in what they have turned into. I will NOT vote for Hillary under any circumstances. Period. I'll write in Obama.

She could be the second NEOCON "Democrat". The first, of course, being "joltin' Joe" Lieberman.



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not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. K and R
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
25. Campaign theme songs, from Don't Stop to Winning Ugly
Winning Ugly -The Rolling Stones

I wanna be on top.
Forever on the up and damn the competition.
I never play it fair,
I never turn a hair,
just like the politicians.
I wrap my conscience up.
I wanna win that cup and get my money, baby.
And we're winning ugly.

Look out for number one.
My country right or wrong,
let the devil take the hindmost.
I'm never wrong at all.
I always fight the call.
And we're winning ugly.




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