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What would it take for Hillary to suspend her campaign before Pennsylvania?

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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:55 PM
Original message
What would it take for Hillary to suspend her campaign before Pennsylvania?
Losing in Wyoming and Mississippi are expected, but are still more losses. I don't think that will be enough though.

Are there some well-respected Democrats (ideally ones that are neutral now, or Clinton supporters) that could approach her campaign as a unified group and encourage her to drop out for the good of the party's chances in the fall? If she does not, these Democrats could hold a press conference, start going on talk shows, etc., to explain how she cannot win without the superdelegates overturning the will of the voters, and that in their opinion it's just not going to happen - and that by staying in, she is hurting Obama's chances in the general election.

Or is she in it until the bitter end, no matter what?

For some reason, even though the talking heads are talking about 6-7 weeks of campaigning until Pennsylvania, I have an inkling that it will not go that far...
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. believe me, it will go that far. Her ego won't permit it ending before that. n/t
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Yes, her evil, evil ego because she won't drop out when the gap is so narrow.
Why won't she act the way you want? Why won't she just go away?

Why do we have to put up with this stinkin' democratic process, Ma? I don't wanna! Waaaaaaaaaaah!

It's called "running for office." Maybe you've heard of it?

Damn. This is pathetic.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. Agree, she has a MONSTEROUS ego..n/t
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
64. I third that! nt
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
66. "HILLZILLA" n/t
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. an insurmountable gap is not narrow
or do you think Hillary will win every contest from here on out with over 60%?
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. She could win 100% of PA and still not catch Obama.
The gap is not that narrow, and she's running out of states that matter, and states that don't matter.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
65. Definition of "states that matter"
"states that matter" = states Hillary wins

"states that don't matter" = states that Hillary loses

"caucuses don't matter" synonym with #2 above
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #47
106. Obama's not gonna get 2025 pledged delegates either
so why doesn't he drop out?
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #106
107. this "nobody can get 2025" argument is totally flawed
It is based on the premise that if noone can get a majority, then pledged delegates mean nothing.
It also assumes that the Superdelegates will overrule the Pledged delegates.

These premises are wholly inaccurate. Pledged delegates mean everything.

They represent the will of the voting public in the eyes of the Superdelegates. Not just the Popular Vote/Primary States but the Caucusing States, as well. This is the United States of America. Not the United States of CA,NY,NJ&OH...

Obama will need fewer SDs to reach 2025. He is the only candidate who has been picking up a steady stream of them.

The SDs aren't idiots. And they do not need to wait another 7 weeks or 2 months to find out that Obama will win the race for Pledged Delegates.
They will end this soon for the good of the Party.

Will you complain that the SDs are interfering when this comes about?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #107
108. Sorry
there's no rule that says the superdelegates have to vote the way you want them to.

It's not over until one candidate has 2025 delegates. Neither one has that now. Neither one is likely to get them any time soon.

Why are you so afraid to let it play out? Why the constant demands that Clinton drop out now? You sure seem scared.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #108
117. Because we know now what the circumstances are.
Obama will end up with more Pledged delegates no matter what.

So the Superdelegates might as well make their decisions now.

If they are going to overrule the PDs, like you want, then they can do that now.
If they are going to respect the will of the People represented by the PDs, then they can do that now as well.

It's not fear that motivates this request.
It is intelligence.
We do not need to waste time and resources that could be spent fighting John McCain.
It might be fun for you Hillarites to have another few months of thinking she can win,
but it will not be good for the Party or our chances in the Fall.

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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
83. The gap is narrow?
News to me. The math I'm seeing is that Hillary has to win every remaining state by over 25 points (or Pennsylvania alone by 50) to eliminate Obama's pledged delegate lead. Do you see that happening? Hillary must, or else she must have other reasons for staying in.

Now that would be a remarkable comeback, and a sure sign of somebody ready to take on the Republican nominee! Of course, barring that, I think Obama will have proven himself by overcoming a candidate with every advantage to her name (including her name).
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wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
120. The gap is not narrow
The pledged delegate gap is insurmountable, even IF they seat FL and MI.

She *MAY* get close in the popular vote, if Obama really falls on his face, but that's it. And if that is her argument for the SDs to overturn the pledged delegate count, she is effectively arguing for the destruction of the party. Because LARGE numbers of voters, particularly the next generation of Democrats, will peel away.

And she will get crushed in the GE.

This is not even getting into the damage she is trying to inflict on Obama who is barring said disaster above the presumptive nominee.

Its called "winning the presidency without blowing up your party." Maybe you've heard of it?
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No Blood for Hubris Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Oo, girlie egos are SO baad. We can't have that, can we?
No, no.

The nerve -- a female who actually aspires to be President! Someone who's actually a fighter, willing to fight!

How dare she not collapse and faint and go home snivelling at once!

What's the world coming to?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
57. she's a POTUS candidate whose fucked up campaign failed to plan ahead and lost weeks ago
and yet refuses to step out of the race and chooses to trash our presumptive nominee.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
61. Maybe she's a girlie who is bad at math. You KNOW how girls are bad at math.
:rofl:
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
69. Math is Hard!


:rofl:
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
67. Another misplaced accusation of "sexism".
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
112. obama has outspent her 4:1, he has a massive ground campaign,
he has the favor of the press...


AND HE STILL CAN'T CLOSE THE DEAL!



What's WRONG with THIS picture? What's wrong is that he might have the "math" going for him...but the people aren't cooperating with the "math".
OT, when you obamites talk about the "math" all the time...I get that sickening picture of Karl Rove in the yellow room of the WH on election night when Kerry was winning, talking about the "math"--remember...the computer hooked up to the Diebold machines?
Remember Karl Rove and his "math".
This is what I see when you all sit and talk about the "math"--it reminds me of Rove.
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ossman Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bill's penis.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Got 2,025 yet?
Nope.

See you in Harrisburg!



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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Uh, you Obama supporters not being assholes about it?
Wow, you really hate her. It just stinks that this is a democracy and she can keep going just as long as she wants, doesn't it?

You hate that somebody else came to your party and is making a contest out of it. Doesn't she know she's supposed to just get out of the way?

Seriously. DU these days... :puke?
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
70. But when SHE wanted Obama to get out....
...before the race even started because she was christened the candidate by the MSM and others, you were for THAT, eh?

Seriously, you hypocrites make me wanna puke.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #70
122. When Was Hillary Clinton EVER Cherished By Mainstream Media?
Dates, please.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
99. Yes, she can keep going and continue to divide the party. Maybe
that is her 50 state plan.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. a house to fall from the sky on top of her
just like in The Wizard Of Oz
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I'm sorry, that should not have made me laugh...
:blush:
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. "WITCH" post
made you laff my little pretty? haw haw haw
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
60. LOL
:rofl: ops :blush: shame on me :spank: but still :rofl:
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
71. Hey! Let's throw water on her! nt
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. What would it take?
A wooden stake and several cloves of garlic?
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
74. Or a Crucifix. I also hear UV radiation works too... nt
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No Blood for Hubris Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. You suggest that she quit because it will make things easier for your candidate?
That makes sense.

If we were picking a Prom King.



Look, if Obama (and you) can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. It makes it easier for the Democratic nominee for President of the United States - Obama
She just can't win. Sure, the raw numbers seem deceptively close. But superdelegates will not give the nomination to someone with fewer pledged delegates - it would be a slap in the face to the voters, especially the most loyal Democratic voters, who are overwhelmingly voting for Obama. She cannot and will not catch up in pledged delegates.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
55. So you don't mind damaging our chances in November.
Isn't that right? If Princess can't win, no Democrat wins in 2008, so she can try again in 2012...

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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
76. You caught on fast. Yay!
2012... and 2016... and on and on and on...
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
75. That's what you are doing... hypocrite. nt
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newfie4 Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why should she? Obama is trailing her in national polls
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Hillary cannot win this election with more delegates
so, she's basically in it to cheat.

The white elite stealing the nomination from the first black candidate? That will not go down well. They'll be riots in the street.

Not that Im saying giving the nomination to Clinton over Obama would be racially motivated, but that's what people will think.
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newfie4 Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. and obama can't win the GE without Hillary voters, which he won't have
Due to the assholish behavior of his supporters, the sandbagging of hillary, and the hijacking of the Democratic party.

good luck in 08, I'm sure Wyoming is in the bag!
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. lol - 116,000 forum members here don't represent the typical voter
I know quite a few Hillary supporters and they all say that they will obviously vote for Obama if Hillary loses.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
80. And no Hillary supporters are assholes? Geeeeez.... nt
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
79. Especially if the Super Delegates ignore popular vote to do so. nt
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. By one point
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
78. According to which polls?
Obama is winning more, and where he is losing, he is loosing with a smaller margin.

Can you explain how this is "losing" - except for Hillary?
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. if hillary were 100 delegates up would you expect obama to drop out?
there is a good chance neither will be able to get enough delegates to win and a probability that the difference in the delegate count will stay pretty close.

this will probably go to the convention.
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No Blood for Hubris Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Obama SHOULD have dropped out after Tuesday.
For the good of the party.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Why? He has more delegates than she does - and has an even bigger lead than before Tuesday (nt)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
81. Why? Becuase you want Madame Hillary to win?
Despite what the American people want?

You DO know Obama has MORE delegates? Or does that fact get in the way of your biased view?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
59. Obama leads by 150 delegates. so stop the 100 delegates crap. and you KNOW Obama would have
been out if he'd had the same fucked up campaign and lost as many primaries as Clinton.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #59
84. Yeah, but he has class, not hubris. nt
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #59
105. no if the situation were reversed i would expect obama to keep fighting too.
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. There is supposedly, a council of "elders" in the DNC - Gore, Edwards, Richardson, not sure who else
I think the only way she would step down, is if they not only had a closed door session with her and asked her politely and reason with her about doing so- now, when she has a chance to save the party and not loose this momentum-- and before they hand McCain the job when people get so fed up the stop caring. Then, if she refuses, they will have to play hardball. Perhaps they can tell her every day that passes and she continues to run, another "heavy hitter" or super delegate (or two or three or whatever) will endorse Obama until one by one, it becomes embarrassingly clear to her, that she's lost the support of her party. Maybe then. Or, maybe not.
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griffi94 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. imo
obama will lose the support of the party before hillary does. obama is drawing youth voters who weren't democrats until recently, and repub crossovers who still aren't democrats.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
41. But politicians want to be seen as supporting the popular candidate (nt)
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
85. So young people don't matter?
Only people who have been voting for ages matter? Just because they don't support your chosen candidate?

Screw you.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
116. Edwards is not a Super Delegate
Either you are a member of congress a governor or you got the nomination for president.oddly Dukakis is not but Mondale is)...or you have to be a DNC member
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. I think the only way she'll quit is if the SD start voting Obama and...
imply they've mad up their mind. The party has to make a decision.

This could go the other way as well.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
68. In the last month 80% of the superdelegates went to him 77-19
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. The Rapture takes place, leaving Hillary and her supporters behind on Earth
}(
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. I love how Obama supporters are scared of democracy.
This is exactly what they were saying before Ohio and Texas. "Drop out for the good of the party. You can't win Ohio and Texas."

And I love how they say the pledged delegates represent "the will of the people." Where one delegate in Idaho represents 1000 voters, and a delegate in TX represents 25000 voters.

Or, we can make each vote count once. Then, the popular vote without MI/FL is about 600,000 votes. With a revote in MI/FL, and a vote in PA, Hillary actually has a shot at winning the "will of the people." And 57% of the public thinks that the winner of the popular vote should get the nomination (as opposed to pledged delegtes).

But nooooo, Obama supporters scream "changing the rules." (Even though there is NO rule saying the superds can't vote the popular vote instead of pledged ds or any other reason). They'll scream anything to get elected.

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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. I love how Obama supporters are scared of democracy.
Actually, most Obama supporters are afraid she's going to cheat democracy and steal the nomination. If I thought she would play fair, I'd have no problem with her staying in.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. Yeah, negative ads and seeing what PA voters think are "cheating."
If you think her negative campaign is cheating, I'd like to see the Waaaaaaaaaambulence of Obama supporters when his campaign is destroyed in the GE.

The fact is, she has a shot at winning the popular vote. If she does, and the superds flock to her (as 57% of the people thing they should), that isn't cheating democracy. Only a DU Obama supporter would think so.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
87. Exactly. nt
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
100. Way to go galaxy21! Welcome to DU!
:woohoo:
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Uh, Obama got more delegates in Texas, and has a bigger lead now than before Tuesday (nt)
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #19
109. What? Anybody with a functioning brain can tell you
that Clinton was favored to win Ohio and Texas.

I don't know where you saw Obama supporters saying she couldn't win those states. She had double digit leads in both. Obama shrank them before the primaries, but she was still the clear favorite in both, even though she ended up on the losing end in Texas.

- as
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. If you think the party needs to be united now, suggest Obama drop out.
Otherwise, idiotic thread.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. If the positions of Obama and Clinton were exactly reversed, then I would advocate that he drop out
The thing is, I think he would actually do it, because he would be thinking of the greater good of the party, rather than just himself.
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
48. You don't believe that yourself. Quit the BS. It's so close that if that
were remotely true, he'd drop out -- "for the greater good of the party."
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
88. You're psychic?
Then how the hell can you say what someone else thinks?

You really shouldn't project your inner BS onto stahbrett.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #48
101. I do believe that
I don't actually take positions solely because of a candidate that I'm supporting. For example:

1) I think it's crazy that a candidate can win the popular vote yet get fewer delegates, even though this has worked in Obama's favor.

2) I prefer primaries to caucuses, although Obama is doing great in the caucuses.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. Her rhetoric is about primaries, she wants to start winning them, and hopes that will bring momentum
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. If the SD's start to move and she is in danger of humiliation...n/t
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. I think that would do it - she's already lost most of her SD lead already
If he overtakes her in SD commitments, it could be enough for her to admit defeat.
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julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. The Super Delegates could make the case with their votes
Wyoming, Mississippi plus the 50 or so SD's that were said to be endorsing Obama could make a difference if they actually do endorse soon (and Wyoming and Mississippi might be the events they needed to jump his way).
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. Somebody puts up 2 TeeVees and compares Barack's and Clintons' rallies (size does matter)
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
36. Ain't Gonna Happen. And She Deserves To Still Be In It.
This thing's likely going down to the wire. I think you need to start accepting that.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Define "down to the wire"
Do you think that the superdelegates would actually go contrary to the pledged delegate totals? I do not see it happening, and if it does, it will all but guarantee a McCain victory, when potentially millions of voters who had their candidate lose thanks to party bigwigs stay home.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
37. Yeah, but who's going to tell her?
Not me, man.

Not unless I can do it by making a phone call at 3 AM.

From a phone booth.

In a different city.

In a different state.

From behind closed doors.

And can enter the Witless Protection Program when they open their doors the next day.
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Gore. Carter maybe. Who knows? Bill might grow a pair and tell her it's over.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
89. ...
:rofl:
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. She needs to stay in it as long as she wants.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:22 PM by Vinca
If she's coerced into leaving, the entire Obama presidency will be a Hillary whine-a-thon. Let him best her on delegates, even if it takes weeks more of her writing John McCain campaign ads.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Don't get me wrong - she can stay in as long as she wants - but who/what can make her not want to?
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Maybe God will stop talking to George Bush for a couple of minutes
and have a few words. :rofl: You got me - I think she's in it until the end no matter what it does to the party.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #44
90. Yeah, she is that selfish and narcissistic. nt
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
45. The United States would have to dissolve. Barring that, she won't quit. See, for the Clinton's it's
not about what's good for the country or the Democratic party, it's about what's good for the Clinton's. Remember the 1970's and all the talk about the "Me" generation? To the extent that phenomenon really existed, they are the embodiment of it.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. Nothing short of all superdelegates giving Obama the delegates to take the nomination
Hillary is in this to the end.

I suppose I can see her justification. She has won large electoral rich swing states vital to winning in November. But her strategy of winning the nomination has been so awful that I don't really care if she would be the stronger candidate in OH or FL for the fall. She knows that the only way to take the nomination is to have super delegates overturn the winner of pledged/elected delegates.

Her supporters complain about caucuses being undemocratic. I agree. But they knew that caucuses would matter a LONG time ago. She knew she was running a long time ago. She should have been able to establish an absolutely unbeatable organization in those states taking the nomination in a walk.

But they didn't. And now they want to win by having SDs back the delegate loser and possible the popular vote loser... as well as having tainted counts from MI and FL.

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
50. You're joking, right?
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
51. She lived in the West WIng for 8 years. She feels at home there.
That's why she'll have to be trounced at the convention. She thinks it's hers, already.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
53. get a grip---she has half the voters on her side so far. What arrogance from you!
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TheZug Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
54. a wooden stake, holy water, and garlic
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
56. Somebody pouring a bucket of water over her.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
58. A scandal.
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
62. The only way is to get enough supers to endorse Obama to push him past 2025.
n/t
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
63. A fucking miracle. Or an act of the Gods. Wait, those are the same. nt
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istopforcookies Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. Billary cannot be President
Mrs. Clinton and Bill cannot be president again.

Oh wait...

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is running.

A woman cannot be president reminds me of when Jane Fernandez was Gallaudet University's president.

Go Senator Clinton Go!
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #72
92. Is this another one of those misplaced cries of "sexism"?
"Senator Hillary Clinton" is only Senator because of her husband.

She has her sense of entitlement over the Oval Office because Bill is her husband.

Face reality Hilly, and drop out! Go Obama!
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
73. Unfortunately, I think the answer is when pigs fly.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 11:38 PM by azmouse
She'll destroy the Dem party before she'll give up.
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
77. maybe a photo of her kissing huma leaking
or someone at the IRS leaking her tax records to the media...
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
82. Obama can drop out, and then she doesn't have to campaign.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. Why would the winner drop out?
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
86. The release of her tax and White House records.
You know, the ones she is hiding from Democratic voters.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
93. Where is the backbone to do that?
Forget the diplomatic high road approach, the level of caution, cowardice or politeness or mixed loyalties or whatever make this fall short of the blunt intimidation needed for a real 'pressure" effort.
Simply let it be known that it will become low priority to pay off the Clinton campaign debt, and even lower priority for her people to receive inclusion or a voice in the administration. Intimations of primary challenges in NY(as dull as the prospect seems of going back to being a stolid, permanent senator). Stealing and likewise leveling with close allies and donors(anyone who has not gone out on a limb to show their kamikaze loyalty to the Clintons).

Is that likely? Is it more likely than the dilemma of superdelegates who do not want the responsibility of seeming to toss the election- so that they HAVE to wait until June and meanwhile be subjected to the Clinton barrage every single second of that waiting period. Do we have to have yet another big state showdown in Michigan and Florida("the first shall be last and the last first" never had as much irony)?

Waiting may be the only option and not necessarily the worst as Obama builds up meaningful organization throughout the nation. "Losing" the big states has never been so misjudged. He has done extremely well in all those states. The development of the trashing campaign has drawn in what the media would do anyway, granted with more free divisive attention. The losing candidate has granted the favor of becoming more and more a McCain stand-in practice nemesis who is building up more party strength for the overall and almost selflessly getting none for herself. The powers we want faced are getting faced down, now, big time, in the ONLY limited democratic process we will see(because the current GOP is a in all ways a non-choice party and a sham). People who might want that glossed over, Obama uneducated and soft on the corporatists are going down with the ship just like they went to hell with little Georgie.

Anytime some perennially witless, arrogant cowards want to beseech Hillary to quit- or anytime the people taking over the party(not all progressives to be sure) want to start delivering blunt consequences, they can feel free. One way or another this process, shortened or drained to the last drop, has to be done, the pain deserved if not necessary, the ends results to those who stand firm on what is right. The Obama numbers are greater, broader and the movement is just picking up. There is is no fair Democratic or democratic way to stop it. It is battle tested and wised up by the fact that people just don't form a universal parade for any human god. They wanted leadership "from below" they got it. Unless they want frustrated mobs and bottomless disaster they might want to personally embrace sanity and survival.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
94. The Council of Elders
Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, etc are sent to "bell the cat".

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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
95. your suggestion that they lobby her thru the media reeks
tacky beyond words.

This is a behind-closed-doors discussion; if she does not heed it they can start vocally endorsing Obama and giving her the cold shoulder, but going on talk shows and whining is really crap advice.

What she needs is for people to shut the fuck up with the advice and demands long enough to give her some space and let her make a decision - hopefully the right one - and announce it herself. She cannot just respond to the latest call for her to quit by saying, "well, ok then" Human nature is what it is. All the screaming and catcalls from the Obama supporters do NOT serve him well.
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
96. I don't see it happening anytime soon given her attitude.
My guess is even after Pennsylvania she's going to push to stay in until the end. Even though I support Obama, I think Clinton will probably win the state, but maybe by a narrower margin then she won Ohio. However, that won't matter much. The race is about delegates not the popular vote.

For a second assume Obama wins Mississippi delegate wise 18/15, with today's results of Obama winning Wyoming 7/5 (or something like that), coupled with the still unannounced Texas caucus (which still has delegates to assign), the margin in the delegate count will still be larger then it was in the beginning of March because of Obama picking up super delegates.

One of the things that could play as an advantage for Obama is if the super delegates continue to swing toward Obama during the 6 weeks between Mississippi and Pennsylvania. The super delegates are the only area she has consistently lead in, though that lead has now shrunk. According to RCP that has shrunk to 12 (from somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 delegate lead).
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
97. Nuclear war. n/t
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
98. Listen up Obama fans:
It is NOT a coronation and 13 million Americans wish her to stay in the race. If there's something to be learned about her wins last week is that many people still prefer her to Obama. You all don't like it? Then that's just too damn bad for you.

This is not just about Hillary, it's about electing a president who is the most prepared and capable to do the job and there are plenty of us who don't think Obama is ready.

This is still a Democracy and Hillary has no reason to leave the race at this point in time.

:shrug:
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. Her wins were minimal - she's further behind today than before the elections on Tuesday
Here are the various strategies that have been mentioned multiple times, along with why it's flawed:

1) Seat FL and/or MI delegates "as-is" based on de-certified elections.
FLAWS - DNC will not allow it to happen. It will not be enough to give her the lead anyway.

2) Convince enough superdelegates to give her the nomination despite Obama's lead in pledged delegates.
FLAWS - Superdelegates will not slap the voters in the face by giving Hillary the nomination over Obama - you'd see such a massive outcry, and cause such a backlash, that it truly would be suicidal for the party, and the superdelegates are party insiders/bigwigs.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. Her wins were not minimal.
They were the votes of many people. It's not all about delegates, people's votes do count and she won the popular vote in 3 states.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #104
114. For the purposes of securing the nomination, it's only about delegates (nt)
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
103. Why not just reword this: I hate Hillary and I'm an obnoxious, moron Bo maniac so Hillary must die.
That's really what's going on with this thread, isn't it?
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #103
125. Wow, talk about reading WAY too much into a post!
I did not say anything about hating Hillary. The name-calling is really impressive, however. The multi-syllabic ones are AWESOME!

HECKUVA JOB, SEABISCUIT!
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
110. Why on earth should she suspend her campaign?
Go Hillary!
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #110
118. Because she can't win this year. The only thing this helps her win is the 2012 nomination (nt)
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
111. The "good" of the party is NOT served with obama at the helm
Give it up. It isn't going to happen.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
113. She'll drop out when Obama's supporters shut the fuck up.
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 07:44 AM by Perry Logan
The ball is in your court, Obamites.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
115. Senate Majority Leader, Keynote.Address her lead and name on healthcare legislation.
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
119. Decency,
respect for the will of the people, and a desire to put the needs of the nation and party before her desire to win.

mike kohr
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
121. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
123. Mark Penn accidentally drinking holy water?
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
124. A moment of lucidity amidst the angry, buzzing, confusion in her head.
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