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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:36 PM
Original message
Obama’s is on the Horns of a Dilemma: He must destroy Clinton to save his candidacy

To restore the hope of his candidacy Obama must do what his is most loath to do – destroy a fellow democrat. But he must. Winning a few more states that "don't count" will not redress the harm to the chances of success a McCain that has been done by Hillary's destructive rhetoric. He must now treat her not as “a friend” as an enemy .

It realy is destroy or be destroyed.


If Hillary Clinton remains credible her daily validation of basic line of Republican attack – that the nation would be at grave risk with an Obama Presidency – will destroy his own general election viability. Hillary is doing to Obama exactly what the swift-boat liars did to John Kerry, but potentially with greater effect since she is a leader of Obama’s own party.

The claim by Hillary supporters that these attacks just “good vetting” is a lie. This vetting –by-smear does not compare in any way to attacks that the Enemy could launch because the critique of an enemy does not have the credibility of devastating “testimonial” from someone who professes to be “honored, so honored” to be your colleague and “friend.”

Hillary has broken what Gary Hart call the “final rule.” Obama must now either acquiesce to Hillary’s “gracious” offer of a V.P. role on her ticket, or begin a campaign to totally destroy her credibility with the American people.

Hillary has become a mortal enemy. The time is now to “let loose the dogs of war.”

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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. The DNC
can shut this all down right now. It's time for them to get on it.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. yea where ARE the party "elders"
where IS Richardson, Edwards, Gore, and Biden? Why haven't they come out and endorsed democratic politics instead of the Clinton RW tactics and talking points as evidenced last night on Real Time by Terry McCauliffe?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. It wasn't just McAwful, also memeing the same sludge yesterday were
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 04:44 PM by K Gardner
Wes Clark, Lanny Davis, Hillary Rosen and Hillary herself. They're out in force and won't be stopped.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. man Lanny Davis is the fucking WHINYEST
of the hillshills going and Hillary Rosen and the blonde lady on Hardball are just as nauseating
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. where ARE the party "elders"
I get the feeling the Democratic elders are as resolute in their desire to keep our party together as the House Democrats are in holding Bush responsible for his actions.

The Clintons are like Republicans, they bully those without spines to get what they want.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. It IS becoming more and more apparent
but the good news is more people are waking up to what a lot of us have been saying here ever since she started losing-that all she cares about is herself-NOT the democratic party and that she would rather have a republican in the WH in 2009 if it can't be her
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Wow, your last sentence is so, so true.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
51. You whine about Hillarys 'Right wing' tactics....
But you ignore the fact that Obama is doing exactly what Bush did in 2000 and 2004, pretending to be above the fray while his supporters, backed by the media, have a blanket party on his rivals, all in his name. It is classic Rove. Dont believe me? Listen to Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller or listen to Olberman...all of whom have taken the obsessive compulsive Clinton hating baton from the right. The left wing media has turned the Democratic party into a sewer in Obamas name.

But of course you could also just hear it from Rove himself...

Rove, Smear Artist

"Rove developed a template for smearing opponents. The goal was to have his candidates hover above the fray while urging their opponents to concentrate on issues, thereby constantly putting them in a position of having to play defense and deny unfounded accusations. Eventually, the Rove client, according to the script, would step out to demand an end to the ugliness. Of course, Rove wrote the narrative of these plans in such a way that calling for a truce would not occur until the damage had already been done to his opposition."
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MagsDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
61. Not endorsing a guy who looks voters in the eye and lies
They know he is full of shit. He isn't being endorsed by other other candidates for a reason. They know him.
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keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree: “let loose the dogs of war.”
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. If BO destroys Hillary, he commits political suicide. n/t
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. then get the 527s to do it n/t
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Does anyone have a post left? This article just posted on
Buzzflash and is very good.. broaches some of the same topics, also talks about how HRC has betrayed progressive ideals. Someone should post it :-)

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/060
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. I'll do it
My first thread :)
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Here's the link
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rwheeler31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. She is destroying herself.
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. What are you talking about? She is verging on irrelevant!
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. The presumption being that he could "let loose the dogs of war..."
We still don't know whether Obama is "positive" by choice or necessity. Not to put too fine a point on it, but is Obama peaceful or toothless? If Obama lets loose the dogs of war (or even just a couple of "dogs of watch"), I'll be impressed. As a Hillary supporter, I see two candidates whining and complaining a lot, but only one candidate being aggressive. The other is depending on the media and a throng of vocal supporters to do "his" fighting.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Your "aggressive" is other people's "unscrupulous asshole I'll never vote for".
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Fringies who stomp out of the room are good riddance...
...I want someone who will fight. I don't expect the race not to hurt. I don't care if the proceedings scare away a few of the squeamish. The race is PG-13.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Fringies? I'm closer to Ben Nelson than Dennis Kucinich. Nice try, trying
to define Obama supporters. My fear is not that Hillary won't win. My fear is that she'll be the Democratic Bush. I don't want her anywhere near the WH. I think she's unprincipled and unstable.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I'll rest my case. n/t
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. All righty, then.
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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. as someone who prefers barack obama, i still disagree.
he's sold himself as a package that just doesn't include blatant dirty politics. to start that now would be to do significant damage to the image his campaign has worked so hard to project. to win that way would not only damage the party (as it arguably has been while hillary's campaign has been engaging in it), but it could also severely damage his own eventual general election campaign.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. Maybe Ted Kennedy could hand over his personal "archive" on the Clinton(s)..n/t
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I agree with whoever said Hillary is destroying herself
Barack just needs to stand back and let it happen.

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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I agree with whoever said Hillary is destroying herself
Barack just needs to stand back and let it happen.

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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I agree with whoever said Hillary is destroying herself
Barack just needs to stand back and let it happen.

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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Sweet!
:nopity: And you know he does have one - She better watch out - There is so much out there on her and Bill! Let alone the trial coming up in Oct. 08, Paul v. Clinton.
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ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. The higher road has worked well for Obama,
let him point out what his opponent is doing and move on. Hillary would love for Obama to join her in a negative campaign - Obama has already shown that Hillary can not beat him in a positive campaign. Why would he want to play by her rules now that his victory is at hand? Hillary is all but done, and she is burning out what little hope she has by creating the perception that she would prefer to see McCain in the oval office if she can not sit in it herself. Obama needs to keep his cool and play his game by his rules, and I think he will do just that. The only thing Hillary can destroy at this point is her own image - and I really hope she doesn't, she really has done some good things in her time and can still do many more good things.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. I disagree. Obama needs to continue his message otherwise he loses.
So many people who have never been interested before or who have been disenchanted have come out to support Obama. If he goes negative, he will lose these people. I don't think he needs to do anything except maintain and pretend Hillary is nothing more than an annoying little gnat.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I think he can take some punches at her and be OK--there is a myth
developing that she fights and he doesn't. He doesn't have to wallow in mud to take her on in a sharper way. Just has to be careful not to trigger any "sexist" backlash, which of course she'll cry and scream about at the slightest provocation.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Possibly but he needs to be clever.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 05:03 PM by sparosnare
He is in a tough spot because whatever he does she'll play the victim card.
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. Then he should do it. She must be stopped before she destroys again.
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PetraPooh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. NOT AT ALL, She is so effectively destroying herself, he can just continue to be cool.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. Letting loose the dogs of war....
While the goddess Artemis was bathing, Aktaion snuck up on her and spied on her.

In revenge, she turned him into a deer, and he was torn apart by his own dogs.

Obama needs to turn Hillary into a deer, and let her own dogs tear her apart.
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istopforcookies Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #28
46. Invoking a myth?
:giggle:

Not working.

Try again.
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BadgerKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. BO has awakened the grassroots
for the first time in 40 years. His own playing cleanly is part of that. (If others independent of BO want to fight HRC on their own, that's fine.) It shows that special interests have infiltrated both the Dem and Rep parties. If BO still gets taken down, he will quite possibly grow even stronger.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. There is such a thing as "righteous indignation," "holy fury" " the wrath of God"
The truth will destroy her, but ithas to be launched like a javelin to the heart.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thoughtful post and why Democrats who support HRC need to speak to her about this
Reading "Hillary is doing to Obama exactly what the swift-boat liars did to John Kerry, but potentially with greater effect since she is a leader of Obama’s own party." One thing that made the SBVT the more painful to Kerry was that he genuinely cared for veterans and had fought for them for decades. Here, it is even more personal - if that is possible One of Obama's first political activities was a huge outreach to register votes in Chicago - something that benefited our 1992 nominee.

I do think there is a third alternative to the ones you mention. That is for enough people in the Democratic party -- especially those supporting HRC to make it clear that there is a line that could lose her their superdelegate vote. She needs to be told that this bad behavior will be punished not rewarded. I think she should have crossed almost everyone's line by now.



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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
35. He needs to have clean hands . . . just like Hillary.
Learn from the master when it comes to sliming a competitor.
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Not the Only One Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
37. No, he doesn't
His candidacy doesn't need saving, first of all. Hillary's does. She's the one losing badly.

Second, Hillary's all bark and no bite. She can bark pretty damn loudly and it is quite annoying, but she can't win this race except to steal it.

Obama just needs to hold fire until she actually tries to steal it. Then, he can destroy her. He needs to just be patient.
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Beregond2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
39. Destroy
She's destroying herself. All he has to do is wait.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
58. only in the minds of the active and the educated democrats
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
40. No wonder Hillary (and Bill) are faves of the offense department
"Fallon is not the first CENTCOM commander to rein in aggressive White House policy toward the Middle East. In late 1997, according to Dana Priest's book, The Mission, the Bill Clinton White House wanted CENTCOM commander Gen. Anthony Zinni to order his pilots to provoke a military confrontation with Iraq in the no-fly zone by deliberately drawing fire from Iraqi planes."

http://www.antiwar.com/porter/?articleid=12483
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
42. Despite the minor impact of her negative attacks on the OH & TX voters
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:08 PM by Voice for Peace
the results in those states were not different from what the Obama campaign
projected in early February.

If he attacks her, undecided voters may feel sorry for her and
vote for her at the last minute.

I'm agreeing with posters who suggest she is destroying herself; however
he needs also to stay on top of what she's doing, illuminate it for what
it is: ie, beneath us all, and not very presidential.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. Enormous Impact on Obama's electability vs McCain
In the world of pres politics where moving a poll 2 percent decides the race, the impact has be like a tsunami.
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Then it will come down to a contest between fear & hope. I'm going to put my
money on a message of change, and hope, and the resonance Obama has with many from all sides who are sick of business as usual.
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TheZug Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
43. Really he just needs to ridicule her, make her look small. Not hard.
Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

Rules for Radicals

http://www.vcn.bc.ca/citizens-handbook/rules.html

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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. she has to be made to look as ridiculous and despicable as she is
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MojoMojoMojo Donating Member (579 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. New Kind of Politics?Thats how Obama has won every previous Election
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. WhackjobWhackjobWhackjob
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
47. Obama doesn't have to do anything
Hillary Clinton is destroying herself. She played a good hand badly. If she keeps playing she risks losing everything.
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Exactly. Including her senate seat.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
50. Seems he is doing just great in this clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ItzF78vbM&feature=user

Mail the link as far and as wide as possible.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
52. He needs to make her experience work against her.
Make her appear to be the corrupt insider rather than the experienced stateswoman she makes herself out to be. Show her face along with Nixon, and George W. Bush, "Experience matters?" Then roll to Obama's picture along with JFK, Lincoln and Bill Clinton. "Obama, a new vision for America" Or something like that.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
53. Hillary doesn't need any help destroying herself
She's doing that all by herself.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
55. NOT.
He doesn't have to lift a finger. Hillary and her boneheaded campaign staff are doing a fine job of destroying her on their own. Bottom line is that it was hers to lose, and she lost it.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
56. he's been trying all along. I think he's weak.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
59. He must only tell the truth every time she says anything bad get all his surrogates to say tax retur
Edited on Tue Mar-11-08 01:42 AM by cooolandrew
Tax returns. Video link here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3qOi_l1RGY
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NMMatt Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
60. I agree - but let the surrogates do it
If Kerry, Kennedy and Durbin started "vetting" Clinton it would allow him to get back on message and appear above the fray at the same time exposing the Clintons for who they are - dishonest, corrupt, power mad, party destroying megalomaniacs.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
62. I dont think so
Obama will end up with more elected delegates and probably more national votes its almost a lock at this point (even if Hillary pulls 60% in pa). If he stays above the mud slinging that will only be another feather in his cap and quite frankly if he can survive what Hillary is throwing at him I dont see the GOP being any more trouble to him..
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