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3 precincts' caucus votes won't count in TX (which is an example of why the caucuses need to go)

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:33 PM
Original message
3 precincts' caucus votes won't count in TX (which is an example of why the caucuses need to go)
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/518514.html

Hundreds of people were crammed into the tiny cafeteria at Atherton Elementary School in Arlington on Tuesday night.

They waited there, shoulder to shoulder, at precinct caucuses for more than two hours to declare their support for Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for president. People who attended said the mood grew heated as participants lost confidence in whether their votes would be counted.

They had every reason to worry. The Tarrant County Democratic Party confirmed Friday that it had received envelopes with blank forms for all three precinct caucuses at the school.

"At this point, we don't have any record that anything happened there," said Keith Annis, the county party's executive director.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. ...
:wtf:
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Maybe they should go look at Denny's? n/t
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hmmm, Where Are All The Hillary Supporters Demanding
that these voters not be disenfranchised?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Those votes don't count - Hillary won the primary
Hillary won the primary Hillary won the primary Hillary won the primary Hillary won the primary Hillary won the primary *clicking my heels*
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Wow! A Democrat who doesn't support a democratic process. n/t
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I know right?! But she's gonna be President
how she gets there is not our concern.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Did you forget your sarcasm smilie? Or don't you support a democratic process? n/t
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I'm from Iowa n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. yeah, so? Do you support a democratic process or not? n/t
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. the girls won the girls won
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. and how many votes weren't counted? n/t
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Just playing a game middle schoolers play. Sorry I can't
answer your question. Onbama might have been robbed. The results were pretty close overall in Texas, where I live. I voted for Obama. The girls in my house voted for Clinton, so it was 2 to 1 in my house. My girls think it is their turn. I think it is time for the next generation to come in, as ours has already screwed things up enough. I think we need a younger girl if we're gonna have a girl. This one depends too much on her husband.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. We discussed it days ago when we talked about Hillary receiving
tons of calls talking about caucus irregularities.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. PRESENT.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. BS: There were HUGE numbers thanks to Obama. Some just
were not prepared. It's an important party-organizing process as well as an electoral process. With experience and run well, they're very useful in several ways.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yep, they're "very useful" for the ol' boys network. n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. They're "very useful" for the party -- NOT THE PEOPLE n/t
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Is this why Clinton advised her supporters to head the caucus sites?
Maybe the Obama crowd was overwhelming.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I can't answer that -- the example just shows how the caucuses need to go.
That's why I posted it.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Envelopes with blank forms?
Texas caucus hardball

The Dallas Morning News gets hold of Clinton caucus "training materials," in which supporters are instructed to fight for procedural control of caucuses.

The materials say in part, "DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

It goes on to say, "If our supporters are outnumbered, ask the Temporary Chair if one of our supporters can serve as the Secretary, in the interest of fairness.

"The control of the sign-in sheets and the announcement of the delegates allotted to each candidate are the critical functions of the Chair and Secretary. This is why it is so important that Hillary supporters hold these positions."

...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Texas_caucu...
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. The press is creating a story because of its own agenda
As someone who has attended Texas pct conventions in the past, this is nothing new. The only thing new is the intensity because of the importance of the race and the energy the 2 candidates for pres. have created. In all likelihood, the paperwork will show up.

And because of the intensity of the event this year, the local press has been pounding us daily with horror stories of the pct. conventions. Gee, do you think they have an agenda of their own? Sure they do. And they intend to paint Democrats as undemocratic, disorganized, fools from now until election day. Do you want to support that?

So don't be taken taken in by the efforts of the local media to disparage Texas Democrats and the system. Is the system chaotic? Sometimes. It always has been. Is it unfair? Sometimes, but overall it has worked satisfactorily in the past.

When you have an open pct convention where almost all the new participants have no experience with the process, and you multiply the number of participants by 10 fold or more, and you have 2 presidential campaigns bucking for every advantage with out-of-state staff (so called observers) that are as inexperienced at Texas procedures as the voters, well, things go pretty crazy.

Oh, does our local, conservative media have their own agenda? Here is another example: The Star-Telegram has yet to print the raw vote totals for uncontested races from the Dem.& Rep. primaries. Why? Consider that every single Dem. candidate actually got more raw votes their Republican counterparts in every position in Tarrant County. THAT'S A HUGE STORY. And you don't see it in print.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. The system is a complete farce and the media is exposing it.
And I'm glad people are waking up to that fact.

So sad that the DEMOCRATIC PARTY doesn't support a DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. As far as the raw votes in Tarrant County, then write a ltte. n/t
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. My point is you are playing into the hands of the Conservative MEDIA
Thanks for the suggestion. But one letter to the editor is not the same as constant editorial slant that is reflected through the Conservative Media. I'm not saying there won't be letters about the raw vote totals- there probably will be- but it is not the same.

And you, by saying the system is a fraud, etc., play right into their hands.

The system was good enough for Democratic nominees past, including Bill Clinton (twice), so you can calm down. Credentials Committees will be going over the mistakes and problems very soon. This is always the case.



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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Nope, I am not playing into "their" hands. The caucus system is undemocratic and flawed and needs
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 10:27 AM by antigop
to go.

This nonsense about it being "good enough for Democratic nominees past" is just that -- nonsense.

At one time slavery was allowed and women didn't have the right to vote. That doesn't mean it was OK.

<edit> At one time there was no Civil Rights Act. That doesn't mean it was OK.

I am thankful that the media is showing the problems with the caucus process. I hope they keep it up. The caucus system needs to go.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. And I want to know why so many people are in favor of keeping it when it benefits the party and not
the people.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. Lol. What about the Obama "zero votes" in 81 heavily black precincts in the New York PRIMARY?
What about the 100,000 discarded Indie votes in LA during the California PRIMARY?

It ain't just caucuses. All of our elections suck to a certain degree.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I won't argue with you about the entire election process.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 11:47 PM by antigop
But the public's attention is now being drawn to a part of it -- the undemocratic process of the Texas caucus.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yes, it's quite distressing
Things like this keep happening and people are going to wind up not bothering anymore.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. the New York zero votes
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 10:42 AM by MonkeyFunk
were NEVER part of an official count.

They were initial canvasses - and were corrected when the OFFICIAL count was made. No comparison.

Also, there weren't 100,000 votes discarded in LA. That was the highest possible (and I thought it was more like 70k, not 100k), presuming that EVERY independent voter screwed up his/her ballot.

Edit: And how on fucking Earth does that excuse what happened in TX? What is WRONG with people? What's wrong with pushing for a system wherein everybody who wants to vote gets to vote, and every vote is counted - REGARDLESS of whom they vote for?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Sounds like something you made up.
What about some proof in the form of a legal investigation, or how about a protest filed by Obama. Got anything other than unsubstantiated internet RUMOR?
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
29. All the blank forms are Obama's.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. I don't care whose blank forms they are. The article is an example of how the process is deeply
flawed and is not democratic.

It doesn't matter who benefits or who loses as a result. The caucus system stinks and should be done away with.
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. The S-T article is intentionally incendiary
The Star-Telegram's article is incendiary. The S-T is a very conservative newspaper and has an agenda of its own. If you don't believe me, pick up an edition and look for war news. They print very little. But you will read the economy is fabulous.

About the CAUCUS, THE ARTICLE could have mentioned that delegates were selected at it. Those delegates they will show up at the Senatorial District Convention May 29. And if the paperwork hasn't been found, or if it has been destroyed or is terribly flawed, you can bet the Credentials Committee will piece together a list of delegates selected at the pct convention so they can participate at the Sen. Convention.

Am I a fan of the caucus? Not necessarily. But to present the system as horribly flawed just isn't accurate.

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. No, the paper is telling the truth -- and pointing out how bad the caucus system really is.
Why do Democrats continue to support a system that is NOT democratic?
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Please, take your case to the TDP
I was going to ask if you felt all caucuses are undemocratic, but to be frank, you've put me off with your whining. If you want to do the dirty work of right wing media in sullying the Democratic Party, I guess no one can stop you.

Seems to me if you feel strongly, you'd take your case to the Texas Democratic Party.



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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. My, my. I guess I struck a nerve. n/t
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. No, your shrill whining just grew tiresome.
Edited on Mon Mar-10-08 09:01 AM by MrTriumph
And I did genuinely mean it. Take your complaint to the TDP.

Oh, they may ask why you did not complain earlier. Since you didn't complaint to them, most likely you are sore because your candidate did not do as well in the caucus as another. Your case will be a hard to sell.
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