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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:21 PM
Original message
Ok, let's cut through the BS
Allow me to state a few thoughts that Clark may have taken to arrive at his support for Hillary Clinton and to determine that Barack is not prepared to be Commander in Chief.

1. Barack's political expediency and supreme ambition - In a time when the Dem party is arguably stronger than it has been in 30 years, this man is running against a Democrat with a moderate political strategy. After GWB's fucking 8 years, this is not the time to run a moderate campaign and proclaim how we should all get along and we should not have a mandate on Healthcare and we should raise the cap on SS and Reagan made great changes because of the excesses of the 60's and the 70's. This is political expediency, we have reports of how his move to the Presidency has been planned for some years, his votes show a pattern of avoiding the tough issues, issues that could hurt someone in a National campaign or that he could use to damage a Democrat from the right.

2. Barack's clear weakness on National Security - Folks he was just damaged severely by someone of the fairer sex on National Security, hows that gonna work out against McCain?

3. Baracks decision to attack his opponents over the IWR, something even Clark didn't do, in fact Clark defended Kerry from Dean (in the 2004 primaries!) You see, Clark has more integrity than Barack. Barack has admitted he doesn't know how he would have voted, and now he claims that was just a lie. When did you lie Barack, then or now?

4. Barack's lack of experience on foreign policy during a time of war. He and his advisors have screwed the pooch more than once here. I don't care to restate them, I'm sure someone else will.

5. Hillary's devotion to Democratic issues over personal ambition - even arguing against Bill C on occasion (Healthcare, NAFTA). She was the wife of a politican for many many years instead of running for office herself. It is not the thrill of public adoration that moves this women. Its Democratic goals for our party and this country.

6. Hillary's beliefs and knowledge and creds on foreign policy - Read her whole speech when she voted for the IWR. The whole thing! It was a tough a vote, tougher than any vote Barack has ever taken. Tougher than any of you have ever had to take. But she knew the issues and she knew the Dem party could not stop the war with one vote that could be overturned a few months later. She knew that Americans and New Yorkers wanted to get tough with Iraq and wanted Iraq to be fully compliant with the UN resolutions. Wes knew this too. It doesn't matter whether you believed Bush was trying to take us to war, it matters what alternative you were going to pursue. Wes never advocated for the Levin amendment, you have your facts wrong if you think so. He was for one before that, lead by Biden. The fact is we were in a no win situation because of who was President at the time. But UN inpectors were put back in, and had they been allowed to do their job her vote would look like genious today.

7. Hillary's work ethic and personal strength. Barack is finding out just how strong she is.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Devotion to Democratic issues over personal ambition"?
Right.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. I stopped reading after that
Serious presidential candidates all put personal ambition first. There's no other way that you can get that far.
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
35. Yep, that shut down my reading the OP. I wish I did emoticons..
because I'd join you in the laughing. Now, I'm just sadly shaking my head.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. I predict Obama hounds in here soon
to say that Wes needs to have his Democratic Party card revoked.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm sorry, but your #5 is backwards.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not quite getting this statement
2. Barack's clear weakness on National Security - Folks he was just damaged severely by someone of the fairer sex on National Security, hows that gonna work out against McCain?

What is that supposed to mean? It comes off as sexist as hell, as if somehow women are not supposed to have opinions on national security. Care to explain?
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
40. I'll spell it out:
Obama just got pussy-whipped. :eyes:

And yes, as a woman I found that offensive. :(
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Reality challenged much?
Cut through or manufacture the B.S.?
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. I thought you said you were going to cut through the BS...it is deep as hell in here.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why is she floating this fantasy of Obama as a running mate?
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 04:29 PM by cottonseed
That's what I don't get. Is Obama ready or isn't he? If a Hillary supporter can do one thing for me, would they please explain this apparent contradiction.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. They're only doing it in Mississippi, to trick blacks into voting for her.
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Lotta spin there.....dizzying.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. So Your Job Was To Spew The BS
and ours is to cut it?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. So many hilarious points here, I don't know what to do except piss my pants.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 04:30 PM by wienerdoggie
"Barack's clear weakness on National Security"--yeah, being right about our foreign policy and national security issues is now considered being "weak"--WTF?


"Hillary's devotion to Democratic issues over personal ambition"-- :spray:

"Barack's lack of experience on foreign policy during a time of war. He and his advisors have screwed the pooch more than once here."-- :rofl:

"Hillary's beliefs and knowledge and creds on foreign policy - Read her whole speech when she voted for the IWR. The whole thing! It was a tough a vote, tougher than any vote Barack has ever taken. Tougher than any of you have ever had to take. But she knew the issues and she knew the Dem party could not stop the war with one vote that could be overturned a few months later. She knew that Americans and New Yorkers wanted to get tough with Iraq and wanted Iraq to be fully compliant with the UN resolutions. Wes knew this too. It doesn't matter whether you believed Bush was trying to take us to war, it matters what alternative you were going to pursue. Wes never advocated for the Levin amendment, you have your facts wrong if you think so. He was for one before that, lead by Biden. The fact is we were in a no win situation because of who was President at the time. But UN inpectors were put back in, and had they been allowed to do their job her vote would look like genious today." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. You want to cut through the BS?!??!
EVERYTHING that you posted is grade 'A" bullshit. Hillary is weaker candidate. She is the most hated Democrat in the country. If she manged to steal the nomination then steal the GE, her presidency would be an utter failure that would cost us the Senate and maybe the house.

Everything you know is wrong.

HIllary is finished.America doesnt want her or her kind any longer.
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xspowr Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
32. Another well-reasoned response from Camp Obama
Thank you for your thoughtful and well-documented opinion in response to the OP. Your argument that HRC is the "weaker" candidate simply cannot be refuted. I will shortly be sending out a memo to my (former) fellow HRC supporters to inform them that, despite the millions of votes cast for her and millions of dollars in fundraising by her campaign, HRC is the "most hated Democrat in the country" (I'll also copy that memo to all the pollsters, demographers, and election experts who have documented that HRC leads by a large margin among registered Democrats...I guess they didn't see your data!). And thanks for opening my eyes before it was too late. I was, sadly, "her kind" and I wouldn't want to be kicked out of America, which doesn't want us anymore, as you so eloquently point out! My gosh! Clearly, everything I knew WAS wrong!

And thank you for clarifying that any result other than a victory for Senator Obama can only mean that HRC "stole" the nomination. I was confused about all that "let the voters decide" rigamarole that was going around. Why won't she just quit now, dammit??

And frankly, given all the sturm and drang about this nomination process, it's about time that someone with your prognostication abilities has come along (did you obtain your mystical powers through your support of Senator Obama? That would be a cool perk!). As long as you've seen the future and know that HRC is "finished" and that "her presidency would be an utter failure" that will cost us Congress, I can rest assured that my decision to come to Obama is a sound one.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks again. As long as Senator Obama has supporters like you with such impressive persuasive reasoning and "people" skills, I have no doubt that we will be able to convert all those misguided Hillbots to join us in the glorious revolution to come in November! And to think how close I came to backing such a loser! Whew!

:sarcasm:

What a tool...

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. yeah! shit what a great read. nt
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. We get it Jim, you love Hillary and Wes, leave it at that...
why do you keep trying to convince us? We have our opinions and you have yours.

I am pissed at Clark for endorsing Clinton. That's my bottom line.

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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. BHO is a Monday Morning Quarterback on Iraq
Monday Morning Quarterbacks talk a good game, but they can never get you over the goal line.




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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is so true. On another thread I called her "the Little Torpedo"
because that's what she reminds me of. She keeps working to get to her target no matter the obstacles. I admire her tenacity, but most of all, I admire her compassion. Our returning veterans have a friend in her, and they know it. So does General Clark, who has always worked for his "men" in any way he could.
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. Your headline is really arrogant
You seem to think that you're smarter than everyone else here.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. I wish Obama supporters would respond with facts.
How can anyone argue about # 5? There are no arguments. She did speak up against things Bill was for. She did serve as a wife of a politician rather than run for office herself. Refute those facts Obama supporters. You can't. So don't just give us, "no she didn't, Obama is better" meme. It makes you look cult like.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. "Serve" as the wife of a politician? WTF? She and Bill had a deal.
She put up with his woman-trouble shenanigans and stayed with him to uphold their image, and in turn he got her into the Senate and is trying to get her into the WH--that's cold-blooded calculation.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. That's bullshit. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.nt
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I believe it. So, it's true to me!
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. There's so much I disagree with here, I'm not sure where to begin
But I'll try with this one --

FAIRER SEX? Clearly, Jim, you have never met my mother-in-law.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I'm sorry if that offended you or your
mother-in-law, but I will have to let it stand. I do not think females are incapable of doing jobs men do, but I think fairer sex is still a politically correct term and accurate at least in the way I mean it.
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Slagathor Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. The US military has a sordid and shameful history
who gives a shit what some retired general has to say? When was the last time the US military did anything noble or just or operated humanely and for the right political end? WWII? It's hard, even, to make a case that the US wasn't entirely motivated by naked self-interest in that war. It wasn't as much about fighting fascism as it was to secure an American hegemony.

I think it's about time the US military was disbanded. It's an unnecessary tool of imperialism, seldom used in aid of human freedom. It's a burbling, stumbling imbecile, stomping flatfootedly around the world, causing more harm than good. Unless you consider: Afghanistan, Iraq II, Iraq I, Somalia, The Balkans, Grenada, Vietnam, Korea, WWI, Cuba, Spain... anything other than grotesque and disgusting failures.

So, yeah, who gives a shit what some warmongering old creep thinks? He's part of a larger problem.

PS okay... so maybe Panama went well, but I'm hard pressed to think of another example.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. You had me at "devotion to Democratic issues over personal ambition"
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. waiting for serious rebuttals still...
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. K and R. Excellent post and not an argument against it -- only the usual tantrums.
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Beregond2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. Work
I'll grant you she works hard. The rest of your list is nonsense.
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RememberWellstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
29. good analysis.
Excellant points.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. Excellent! Thank you.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. kick
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Oh. a self kick.
How classy, jim4rodeowes.
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
34. You Kicked This Tripe For Another Go-Around?
:eyes:
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istopforcookies Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Let's not forget
Senator Obama fuels the hatred against women, lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, and transgendered.

Should I cheer?

Nope.

Go Senator Hillary Clinton Go!
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
38. Any links to support this list?
because it all seems rather arbitrary.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
39. Any links to support this list?
because it all seems rather arbitrary.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
41. So when are you going to start cutting?
Wes is a Clinton toady.
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