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A simple compromise from King Solomon that Florida and Michigan can't refuse

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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:09 PM
Original message
A simple compromise from King Solomon that Florida and Michigan can't refuse
This is cross-posted at NewsprismBlog

How King Solomon Would Solve the Democrats' Dilemma

The Democratic Party leadership faces three major obstacles to resolving the problem of seating delegates from Florida and Michigan:

1. Both states broke rules they themselves had agreed to, leading to the current squabble;

2. To "re-do" the primaries in both states would cost tens of millions of dollars; and

3. Hillary Clinton has said she won't accept a caucus in either state.

King Solomon (who was not a democrat) might settle the problem like this:

Allow the results of the Florida primary, in which both Clinton and Obama were on the ballot, to stand as is; allow Michigan, in which only Clinton was on the ballot, to hold caucuses as soon as possible; and tell both states' party leaders that either they accept this compromise, or neither states' delegates will be seated at the Democratic National Convention in August.

This way, both Obama, who leads in Michigan and has won 13 of 16 states that held caucuses, and Clinton, who already won the Florida primary, would likely win the majority of delegates in just one state, ultimately splitting the delegates more or less evenly. Plus, the cost of a do-over in Florida would be avoided, while the cost of holding a primary in Michigan would be cut significantly by using caucuses, which are far less expensive.

Both states' leaders would have to accept the compromise or risk screwing the other state, and the Party, and the people.

DNC Chairman Howard Dean should set a deadline for Florida and Michigan to accept this compromise---or watch their delegations die.

Newsprism
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hmmmmm
I'll have to think on that one, maybe.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sounds ok to me, but how is that a compromise for FL?
They don't have to do anything, what's for them NOT to accept in that deal? Sounds like more a compromise for the candidates than the state.

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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Bingo. The whole problem is that the candidates are the ones whose oxen would be gored
("gored"--no pun intended.) It's the Obama and Clinton faithful who are jockeying for position, not the two states.

Take the jockeying out of the equation, and the problem is solved.

Florida doesn't need a do-over; they just want their votes to count. Michigan HAS to have some kind of do-over, and caucuses are the best way to do that.

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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I agree, that's the only solution at this point.
Ideally MI's caucus would feature absentee participation to allow as many Dems as possible the chance, but that might be a lot to put together in a crunch, and something is better than the nothing we currently have.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. And time is short--very short. n/t
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surfin Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. No one likes the simple way
split 50/50. You will waste all that money and it will come out about that with delegates won.

Do something that is common sense.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. No caucus. Let everyone participate.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Not a bad idea
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. No..
This gives Clinton a gtd. win in FL, where Obama didn't have a shot.. and gives Clinton a SHOT in MI as well.. just because she may be behind in the polls doesn't mean she won't throw out 10 more Canada NAFTA and 3:00am ads to catch up.
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surfin Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Split 50/50 just about the same thing will be the outcome and we save all the money
But that is common sense.
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. If the goal is to split 50/50 - then why do anything at all?
If this is about making the votes of the people count, then you have a re-do in Florida to make everyone feel counted. Many didn't vote.

If the goal is to make the results null & void, aka a 50% - 50%, then why do anything.. that's basically where they sit right now with nothing being counted.

But, that's common sense. :eyes:
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Invalid elections in FL and MI should not have any effect on nomination
Wait until a nominee reaches 2,025 without them, and then seat FL and MI "as-is" (give Obama all uncommitted).

If the states/state parties choose to re-run a primary, or have a caucus, then that's fine as well, but the state or state parties should pay, not the DNC or the candidates.

(By the way, not all caucuses are created equally. A caucus can be run similarly to a primary - have locations chosen, people show up and cast a vote, and then they can leave. The big difference is that the locations are usually fewer in number, and are run by the parties rather than the state.)
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I forget the exact numbers, but in order to reach 2025,
Obama would have to win 70+% of the remaining delegates, and Clinton would have to win 90+%.

Neither outcome is likely...so we can't afford to wait.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. The 2,025 number is the magic number to reach without FL and MI
If FL and MI had delegates, the magic number would be larger. The superdelegates will be needed. My personal opinion, after listening to a lot of superdelegates, is that they will not go against the will of the voters and give the nomination to a candidate with fewer pledged delegates.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. Except that when Obama campaigns in a state, his numbers jump
by as much as 20 points in a couple of weeks. He should have a chance to fill up a few stadiums in Florida and get a fair vote.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. In a perfectly organized world, I'd agree...but remember what Will Rogers said:
"I don't belong to any organized party. I'm a Democrat."
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. A very good point and, judging from this year, never more true. nt
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Never more true, never more sad. n/t
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. Florida is no compromise...
excepting an illegal primary, that was known by all not to count at the time, is not a compromise.
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surfin Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. Heard the best one but it takes common sense
On MSNBC. Give the half each. If the voters gripe tough, they mess up and it is tough love. But here is the common sense part. Why spend millions to do it over and yet it will end up about 50/50 in delegates they get.

Times are tough and I know a lot of people who could use that money.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. Actually, King Solomon would just cut both delegations in two and give both Candidates half
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. That's what I thought with the thread title
Seat both delegations and make them vote 1/2 for Obama and 1/2 for Clinton
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Solomon's ruse only worked because the real mother had to think her child would die
somewhere between you and me there's a perfectly Solomonic analogy...
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. well Hillary would shriek because her flawed advantage was being taken away
Solomon would see that she was only in it for herself and not the People,
and then he would present all the Delegates to Obama.
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surfin Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. It is so simple but few can see it
Why waste the money, they mess up and this is the cost.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Simple mind, simple solution
I may be dumb, but I'm slow.
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surfin Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Why waste the money to get almost the same results
The voters made a mistake and need to learn a lesson and never do it again.

So simple. Why waste the money as both of them say we need to help people who are poor?
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Georgie_92 Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
23. They broke the rule, knew their vote would not count
so don't seat them, no do over either, to bad.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Deep down, that's my opinion, too, BUT
that would mean punishing the voters for the arrogance and short-sightedness of a few party leaders.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. I'd like to think King Solomon
would just remove MI and FL from the Union.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. He could be VERY brutal
He might remove them by killing everyone...he was so Old Testament and all.
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