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Consensus is building FAST ---> Train Hillary has has jumped the tracks.

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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:08 PM
Original message
Consensus is building FAST ---> Train Hillary has has jumped the tracks.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 03:25 PM by DeadElephant_ORG
She got such a bump from Ohio that even I took a second look at her: "Man, that woman is a fighter".

Then Clinton encouraged Americans to elect Republican McCain over our Democratic front runner. Her remark was carefully calculated, and she repeated it four times in four venues. Many of her most ardent supporters are shocked, and momentarily paralyzed as the enormity of what their candidate has done sinks in. Her tone of disparagement, "he has a speech", by itself was enough to make the entire Democratic Party blanch. Did her "experience" teach her to behave this way? Certainly she has experience enough to have known that she was crossing the line.

Hillary's catastrophic misstep exemplifies Obama's argument that good judgment matters more than experience.

I know who I want to answer that phone.

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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary May Just Have Learned That "Words" Are Important
and she should watch hers.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
58. LOL!
I totally agree with you. And that whole "words" argument is the silliest thing I've ever heard anyway. I'm trying to figure out how to communicate WITHOUT words in some form or another. I suppose candidates should just mime their positions.
Jennifer in Colorado
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Jokinomx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #58
81. Welcome to the D.U. JenniferZ!!
I know you will enjoy your time here. Especially as the election gets closer!

:toast:
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
106. And words are all she will be left with when she loses.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. When a person says that words are not that important, it can indicate that
To them, thought processes are not that important.

Hillary loves the power. SHe lvoes the wonk-y aspects of being a leader.

But after the slings and arrows came out to attempt to defeat the National Health Plan, the Clintons were lackluster.

They had no rallying slogan. (One of the problems with the Dems is that they put way too much thought and effort into slogans - while Reagan was great at it. His "There you go again!" was unstoppable against Jimmy Carter during the 1980 debates.

Why Dems don't borrow that slogan is beyond me.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. in politics, as in the law, words are the whole thing.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 03:43 PM by DeadElephant_ORG
words on paper. words in speeches. words of argument and persuasion. Lawyers and politicians don't make, or trade, anything but words.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. The first time she said it I didn't take her that seriously
I mean, people mis-speak, or sometimes say something on the fly they haven't really thought out, but you KNOW that after the first time she said it someone told her "You know, that sounds sorta like you're endorsing McCain over Obama there."

Or if someone DIDN'T tell her that and it wasn't obvious to her upon reflection, what kind of candidate does that make her? :shrug:
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. that's why the video of all 4 instances is so powerful.

it becomes clear when you see it: she's made a choice.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. Who, Hillary Arnold Clinton?
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm reminded of the golden phone in Godfather III, just before cuba explodes
I'd bet that's the kind of phone Hillary wants, using 170 million in donations to make sure she has a separate suite and a separate plane. Pity what she is doing to the party is just like what happened to Cuba.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
57. Not to nitpick, but that was GFII
My favorite quote from GFIII "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!!"

Also "Our true enemy has yet to reveal himself" Well, Hillary has already revealed herself
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ClericJohnPreston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
80. Now Hillary is like Cuba?
I dislike BOTH candidates, as in my book, they are BOTH RIGHTERS. Neither represents the core value LEFT WINGER I am.

Your ad hominen attacks are laughable.

Then again, no one ever accused Obamites of clear-headed rationality.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Keep Lying. It's Ok. Lies Have Many Fans Here. You're In Good Company.
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DUyellow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. what is a lie?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. "Clinton encouraged Americans to elect Republican McCain"
Blatant, outright, totally twisted and ignorant lie.
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DUyellow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think if you heard some other dem say something so stupid and damaging to the dem party you...
would be saying the same thing. Wake up...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
78. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
89. And you are....?
DU is for Democrats and for those who support Democrats. You might want to check with The Rules.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. A bit of a stretch, but not blatant or twisted.
She did, in fact, elevate mccain over obama with her statements. And it wasn't even couched in terms of "oh, this is what the Republicans will hit him with in the general - his lack of experience". No -- she literally stated outright that mccain is more qualified based on experience, and Obama only has his speechy speeches. She outright complimented mccain at the expense of obama.

If she doesn't come out with a clarifying statement of how/why Obama *would* be better than mccain as commander-in-chief, then someone on the fence in November might say "gee, hillary had a point about mccain having more experience, maybe I'll vote for him!"

Besides - if Hillary *does* somehow win the nomination, how will she debate mccain on this issue? "Gee hillary, you said I was more experienced... hey, how about we compare my experience to your experience, hmmm?" ==> clusterfuck. Hillary has validated the experience meme at the expense of obama *and* herself because mccain will chew her up & spit her out on this issue. Obama can very easily pivot and argue against mccain on *judgement* ... except now it's that much harder for him thanks to hillary's mindless spewings.

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Forrest Greene Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
68. Pretty Simple Step
...from "McCain's experience trumps Obama's" to "Gosh, then McCain's experience must trump Clinton's, too."

It seems almost impossible that a professional politician or her assistants could've missed that, so I wonder if was thought Senator Clinton's charm & warmth might pull her through. Too bad about that.


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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Here's the exact quote folks - judge for yourself...
"I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."


OPERATIONMINDCRIME - you are among the very last of Clinton's most ardent supporters who still defends that remark as anything but what it is - an outright endorsement of the Republican over her primary opponent. I realize that this is a hard lump for you to swallow after you've devoted yourself to Ms. Clinton, but she has seriously SERIOUSLY fucked up here.

and I think you know it.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm Devoted To Nothing But Truth.
Sorry to disappoint you, since you so badly wanted to be right and all. But the fact is you aren't.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. the truth is that Hillary would take her words back if she could
OPERATIONMINDCRIME, since people can judge for themselves what is true, I won't argue that.

But tell us, from a purely strategic point of view, do you think that Hillary should repeat those remarks? And tell us why, or why not.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
42. Ahh - Operation Mind Crime
I was wondering which Ignored person you were arguing against.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #42
59. LOL
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hell-bent Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
65. Of course she should!
It's politics.....Hillary is just pointing out that if Obama is the nominee he will be facing someone who has a lot of foreign policy experience as a ranking Senator. She rightfully claims she has more experience as a partner to a former president and was no doubt privy to how crises were handled. Interesting how Obama criticizes Clinton for her vote on the resolution to use force in Iraq; and, yet some of his supporters like his mentor, Dick Durbin, voted for the resolution. Of course, he wasn't in Congress so he didn't vote against it. He claims the Kyl-Lieberman amendment dealing with Iran's Revolutionary Guard was very dangerous, and yet he missed this very important vote. :wtf: He appears when the chips are down and it's time to vote he often votes "present" or is absent. Perhaps he goes out to have a smoke. His praise for Reagan was undeniable. He attempted to put down one of the best presidents since JFK, and that was Bill Clinton. Obama is bright, a great orator, but just another empty political suit.
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Forrest Greene Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
69. Sounds A Mite
...grandiose.


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jlpohio69 Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. OPERATIONMINDCRIME, you are in good company...
as I stand by Hillary...it was not an endorsement, simply an opinion of McCain's experience versus Obama's experience. Leave it to the Obamatrons to twist it into an endorsement for McCain.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. are these commentators "Obamatrons" ??...
Kieth Olberman, Arianna Huffington, Gary Hart, Richard Wolf, Dana Millbank, Randi Rhodes, Ed Schultz, Rachael Maddow, Thom Hartmann, Stephanie Miller have all spoken out on this.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. As A Matter Of Fact, Yeah. They Kinda Are.
Seriously, you couldn't come up with a better list than that? Not sure it made your case for ya.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. OK. Then give us the list of thought-leaders who have defended the "he has a speech" remarks.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:08 PM by DeadElephant_ORG

But to call Thom Hartmann, and Big Ed "kinda Obamatons" is pretty far out there...
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. All good progressives, and all agree it was an outrage.
I was perfectly happy to vote for and support HRC in the general if she got the nomination UNTIL that remark. That was beyond the pale.

If she does snatch a Pyrrhic victory at the Convention, she'll get my vote in November only because the Supreme Court is far too important to be left in the hands of President McCain. I doubt that I could bring myself to do much more. In my eyes she is barely a Democrat any more.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
61. BARELY a Democrat?? I'm beginning to consider her a Republican.
She is a Democrat in name only. Having a (D) after your name does not a Democrat make. I really see hardly any difference between her and a Republican nowdays. Especially after the "scorched earth" politics of the last few weeks. I'm seriously considering sitting this GE out if she is the nominee. Sick and tired of the "lesser of the two evils" which is this case there would be really no difference between her and McCain.
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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. There isn't one.
Not that I'm aware of anyway.
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
87. Yes He Will...
Win in November...by a huge margin... America Will Win...

Young or old, big or small, there lives within us all, the most beautiful of expression of greatness of what our country can be..

Vote for Barack Obama...

Thanks.
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snort Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
53. worked for me
i'm in.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
107. But were they "Obamatrons" not long ago?
Many people excoriating here now were defending her vociferously not too many months ago.

That she lost them and is now getting some considerable talent thrown against her (that was once defending her), the question is: why is she losing these people? And that is key to why she is not leading this race right now.

Most primaries are about stealing supporters from your opponent, but she's been just trying to staunch big time losses amongst people who formerly supported her. It's a different dynamic, like an unpopular incumbent facing a strong primary challenge.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
74. So.....
...if it wasn't an endorsement for McCain, then YOU put a label on it that truthfully makes it something else, OK?
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Here's video of all four repetitions so you can get the feel of this for yourself:
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. Game. Set. Match.
This is indefensible. Shame on Hillary Clinton.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. That's exactly what she's done, given Obama will be the Democratic nominee. n/t
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. If Kucinich had said he and McCain were two of a kind, and the rest just posers
would you respond the same?

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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
98. Hitting from the right vs hitting from the left
A primary is about choosing a candidate that will best represent the party's ideals & values. If candidates campaign true to this, then their arguments against their primary opponent will not legitimize/bolster the other party's candidate's perceived strength.

For a Dem to say that a Dem candidate is just like the republican nominee is to hit from the left. Being like a republican is bad--explain to voters why republican "leadership" is bad=Democrats have a better way.


For a Dem to say that a Dem candidate is not worthy of the nomination because they are inferior to the republican candidate's perceived strength is hitting from the right. You have given legitimacy to the republican's claim of a strength, and diminished the Dem candidate making it much harder for them in the GE if they win the nomination.


The 20 years of pushing the Democratic party to the right has culminated in this. A Democratic candidate feels as though it is perfectly acceptable to say that the republican nominee is a better choice than the other Dem candidate. Filthy low-blow from the right.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. Clinton told people that McCain is more qualified to be Commander in Chief than Obama
Tell me what good this was meant to accomplish.
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damitajo1 Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
79. whiners
Obambi said that Clinton couldnt lead. So what....
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hell-bent Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
91. Well, if you look at experience
than she is correct. McCain does have more experience in foreign affairs than Obama. However, Obama gives better speeches. :rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
77. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ColesCountyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. Why is the link in your signature to a video of Rick Roll'd?
Isn't that a bit deceptive, seeing as it has nothing to do with Sen. Obama?

:wtf:
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ColesCountyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #45
105. *crickets*
Not a word in answer to my question...

:shrug:
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. It's just a silly web joke/meme that originated at 4chan.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
52. neither is an excellent candidate OMC
and as someone who has admired your posts for years, I wish you'd see the horrible stab she's taken at the DEM party with saying, "Senator McCain will bring great experience to the presidency" and then immediately saying Obama's just a guy with a speech!

Talk about internet chat insults! That sounds like something with no decency would say online with anonymity. It was embarrassing (for her).

I don't think anyone here is really wrong in saying her obvious decision to go around and say that same line at place after place was a horrible mistake, or just shows her to not really care if we get in the white house as a party... It reminds me of '04.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
96. thank you.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. She's crashing and burning & her intent is to take Barack down with her.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. So she can run in 2012 n/t
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williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. She disgusts me. That was the last straw. She shouldn't even be a Senator, much less President.
rec'd
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. W.G. here's some good...page-turning prose!


OR maybe this one !?!



Missed you, "in country", Slick Willie
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
44. Right on
She crossed a line too far. I can no longer support her for anything.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. Personally, I want someone whose "CIC Threshold" isn't based on George W Bush.
(Hillary == McCain == George W Bush) on Iraq vote, on support for occupation, on Kyl-Lieberman
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. I just read a buzzflash editoral
by Mark Karlin that bummed me.

<snips>
"So Obama has a dilemma. He is running against a candidate whose "35 years of experience" is a slogan, not a reality as far as governance is concerned (except for the scant accomplishments of her senate years). But her very endurance and indefatigable campaigning -- however dirty it has become -- has, to some voters, transformed her into the image of a protector. It's out of the Bush play book, but it's working.

Unlike Bush, however, Clinton doesn't take many siestas or holidays. When she's defeated, she bounces right back up, and that is in our culture an admirable characteristic. No one can begrudge Senator's Clinton energy and endurance.

Obama runs the risk of his opponent successfully being perceived as the battler, if she continues to tip the narrative of the campaign from hope to fear.

The politics of hope, change, and the future faces a conundrum when, in the late stages of the campaign, it faces an opponent who has made a positive out of being unrelenting.

Obama's concern about tainting his narrative is allowing the campaign to shift to a different narrative. Instead of centering on hope and change, many Americans are now evaluating who throws a better punch when the refs aren't looking, and who can work the refs better when they are in the ring (this would in general be the media, by the way)."

Lots more..
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/060

He thinks hilary's scraping the bottom of the feeding trough aka indefatigableness is a plus and Obama's backed into a corner because he's running on HOpe and Change. I call bullshit. Obama can and will run on Hope and freakin' Change and still answer the fawking hilary smears and get her lyin' record out too. How's that for a Magic Man?

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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. Clintons live in their own little delusional world.
Very dysfunctional one at that, they are out of touch with reality. Kind of happens when you are so engrossed in yourself.
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istopforcookies Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. It's not Clintons
It's Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Stop the sexist garbage.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. It's Billary
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. it's started... WY goes 2 to 1 against Clinton
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:51 PM by DeadElephant_ORG

has there been a bigger margin than that???
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. He absolutely crushed her in Hawaii and Illinois too.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. He crushed her in Kansas too
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. Idaho....72% to 27%, Washington State.....68% to 31%.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. deleted
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 12:26 PM by IDemo
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
62. Yes
Virgin Islands - 90 - 8
Hawaii - 76 - 24
DC - 75 - 24
Alaska - 74 - 25
Idaho - 80 - 17

And others more or less 2 - 1, but I'm sure they're all states that don't matter.
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Blue Fire Donating Member (588 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
86. All right buster! Who do you think you are saying Minnesota doesn't matter!
:mad:

Obama beat her here 66.39% - 32.23%!

Minnesota doesn't matter. Heh. :wtf: You got a lot of fuckin' gall!!





:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. Those aren't my sediments
I think every state matters. :shrug:
And if I ever end up in Minnesota, I'm sure I'll love it.

BTW - Congrats on the big win. :thumbsup:
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
29. Great OP. K&R!
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
40. Love the badge! I've got it! Thanks. n/t.
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
43. 50th K n R.....
Tossing other Dems under her bus, no thanks!
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
46. I think there's a good argument..
for choosing your battles as well. While the media and the Clinton's clamor for a slug-fest Senator Obama goes about his business campaigning, racking up the votes, and the delegates. What a stark comparison between the two. One courts the people's votes, while the other plays cheap tricks through the media.
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Lena inRI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Thanks for saying this, Stillcool47. . .
. . .there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between Barack and Hillary, isn't there!

The more Hillary plays dirty, the more people go Obamaway.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Betrayal is the hardest to forgive
Even more so when there is no acknoledgement of the wrong done.
Sadly to say, that while Hillary has tried to win, she really has lost in many ways....

Hillary did show her disgusting hypocritical characteristics indistinguishable from the worst of the Republican smear machine. And siding with John Mccain over Barack Obama, We've seen this type of "I wanna challenge you to a duel" line that was snapped at Chris Matthews by a "Democrat".... Now that Hillary has been embraced by the far right, how can we expect her to fight for democrats when she is fighting against democrats along side the republicans.

Hillary's worst political blunders to date in the last week that is... There is more "vetting" to be done...

Raise your hand if you want more of the same???

All Hillary supporters, I appreciate your attention to this matter... I ask you to join the Obama team to help take our country in an new direction, one of openness, honesty, integrity, hope, respect, wise judgment and prosperity... Together we can make the difference. We all have worked hard to get power back to the people. With Barack Obama, we have that opportunity...


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damndude Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. i'm new here to posting............
but have been a lurker since the '04 election when i believed that the obvious downward spiral of the country would cause the population to turn from bush in droves.
this one statement and tactic chosen by hillary seem to point out the corner stone of the obama argument against her...a change from as they have been washington politics.
is there really any difference between the republicans running infomercials suggestion that john kerry was a draft dodging coward and the clinton campaign suggestion it would be safer to vote for john mccain than to vote for obama if she were not the nominee?
i don't believe any perceived disrespect on obama's part toward hillary during the debates could outweigh the contention that the republican is the better option.
she has resorted to underhanded, dirty, dastardly tactics in the her fight against the inevitable.
and having witnessed much venom from the clinton side to the obama supporters, i must say that i am new to the obama camp only in the last three months. up to now i believed that the clinton glow would be enough to stop any prospective republican candidate. then after having seen obama campaign i thought the two of them would be the best bet.
but as her campaign began to falter and the writing was on the wall, i thought it was obvious they would join up and take the party forward together.
what she has done in the passed 2 weeks to take him down, through the 3am add, and the mccain endorsements displays her mentality to win at all costs rather than consider what is best for the good of the party and the thus the good of the nation.
that she would prefer a president mccain over a president obama, that she is willing to suggest super delegate overturn obama's delegate and vote count to tip it to here echoing bush vs. gore enrages me.
the good democrat and proud liberal in me say i would still check her name if it is the nominee in november because i don't the republicans to win, but it angers me that it would be because would metaphorically have driven the car off the road, killed the passenger and then got a job as a school bus driver.
this is the warning we all got a year ago when the democrats were warned that she cannot win because she is too negative and polarizing. that hillary has emerged and is wreaking havoc in the democratic party though blooding the best hope at new voters, black voters, young voters, affluent voters, etc.
bitch may be new black but people forget, NOBODY LIKES BITCHES.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #48
84. It amazes me what the Clinton's
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 03:53 PM by stillcool47
have done to their own image and reputation in such a short amount of time. No one, no scandal could have caused the same amount of damage as this self-inflicted wound.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. it will never be forgotten either. She's finished herself.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
50. as we see more and more of these well worded posts that are shocked over her words
I think it's clear to see, for anyone who's not crazy about either, because we're more fair, that Hillary, SHOCKINGLY, said one of the rudest things any of us has ever heard by a rival candidate, this late in the game to boot! To build up McCain as bringing experience "that he'll bring to the presidency" as she said herself, then assailing Obama as being just a guy with a speech --- when he's the probable nominee, is politically on the lines of unforgivable.

GOOD RIDDANCE, HILL-BILLY!
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
51. This Lie is the reason why Clinton supporters should sit out the GE if Oama gets the nod...
The CULT of Obama and their Messiah have seen fit to Swift~boat Hillary in order take the nomination, by hook or by crook. If Obama gets it, we should NOT vote for him in the GE and let the chips fall where they may.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. i don't vote for repugs.
and if this is how bho plays...he's a repug.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I'm not suggesting ANYONE vote for McCain...
I won't vote for McCain either, but at the same time, I won't cast a vote for a man who has painted the Clinton's as "racists"...that's not a vote I will cast ever.

And, yes, Obama is as close to a republican as we have in our party.
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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. Hillary did it, now she will have to live with the consequences. It's a judgment thing.
The swift boating of Kerry was plain lies and very different.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. You mean like Obama's smoking pot and snorting Cocaine...
and getting into "boneheaded" business deals with Antoin Rezko? That kind of judgment thing?
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
90. Yes, we should all sit there and pout
while McCain extends Bush's policies into a third term. Some Democrat you are.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
56. After her "misstep" of the Iraq war vote, whats a few dozen more missteps?
:sarcasm:
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trickyguy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
64. This lie that Hillary obviously believes (she said it 4 times)
should be enough to taint her campaign for as long as she continues to run.

It's far, far more serious than Howard Dean's scream
ever was. And look what that did to him.

Shame, shame on you Hillary Clinton for all the lies you have told in recent months just so you could WIN the nomination.

Get out now before you embarass us even more.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #64
73. Hi, trickyguy!
Welcome to DU! :hi:

I completely agree. Up to this point, I didn't see enough difference between them to send either one my money (I sent some to Edwards just before he "suspended" his campaign - do I have a great sense of timing, or what?), but I am making an Obama contribution today.
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trickyguy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. Thanks so much tbyg52 for your welcome to DU. Just started posting
this WE but am enjoying being involved in the process. I live in a small town in Wisconsin and don't get any much contact
with good Internet stuff except at places like DU.

Also glad to hear you are donating to Obama. I have given him more money than
any other candidate ever. Don't have a big income but am putting my money where it counts. His campaing needs it and WE need them.

Check out the post "For my 1000th post" as I have some recommendations there. And again thanks and glad to be on this site. :toast:
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #73
97. What she said made you donate money to Obama for the first time?
that's meaningful.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. Wow, is that fraught with meaning...... ;-->
Not sure what the intent of the comment is here, so I'll explain.

After Kucinich and Edwards were out, I was looking for differences between the candidates the MSM has let us keep, and not finding lots except that I really didn't want to vote for Clinton redux, which is why I *voted* for Obama. I'll admit that endorsements from people and organizations I respected helped.

But I just find the "I'm OK, McCain's OK, Obama I don'tknow about," beyond the pale. At this point you're supposed to be fighting your primary opponent, not doing a "let's you and him fight it out."

I'm almost certainly more than a little naive, but I just don't like it.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. not naive at all. principled. I followed your exact path: Kuc, Edw, Obama
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
66. Off the rail
and on a dirt road.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
70. Time to call it for OBAMA!
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
71. Time to call it for OBAMA!
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 02:44 PM by ClayZ
K and R
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lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
72. i can see the primary comercial now against obama...
even HRC thinks mccain would make a better president. and then they post her own words.

i guess mccain's experience explains his 100 year iraq war and the bomb bomb iran follies. experience doesn't mean shit if you keep making the same mistakes.
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damitajo1 Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
75. lol. no such consensus exists.
good try. and you guys are such distortionists. hillary never encouraged americans to vote for john mccain. she encouraged them to vote for her! basically she was saying what obama has been saying (about himself) that she is better prepared to face mccain. when obama said i am better to face mccain, isnt he saying hillary is a 3rd place finsisher? come out of your biases people. they all do the same thing. what a joke.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #75
94. use her exact words, please, and let the Party judge for themselves what she said.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #75
95. and where oh where are her defenders then? Other than on DU - THERE ARE NONE
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ClericJohnPreston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
82. First you steal from a blog without attribution
Then you go off on a completely nonsensical, whimsical tirade that only an ardent Obamaton would read, without the engagement of a rational mind, to filter truth from hyperbole.

So, this tripe will sell to the mindless ones, your peers.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #82
93. who stole what....?
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
83. This and the "monster" comment did some damage to Hillary. It's showing in the polls today. nt
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stark6935 Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. John
I find it funny you use all these I love the way my own farts smell, look how smart I am words and then refer to people as Obamatons...lol
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
99. This post was voted to the top of Digg this AM. - Here's a link to the raging discussion there.
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
100. Hillary - The politics of hopelessness and despair.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
101. Does good judgment also include good manners? Her remarks
are so-o harmful to the party. I guess I am learning that it's all about Hillary...not you, not me, not the party,just Hillary.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
102. CNN Clinton News Network and MSNBC are trying to shape this election
I just had to hit the mute button again, feel vomit in the back of my throat
hearing Shillary talk about the "Dream Team" thing.

She is trying to plant in people's minds that they should vote for her and
Obama is only second best.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
109. She's a disaster in so many ways.
I wish she'd go away and never return. I have seen enough of her to last a lifetime. After the past few weeks, when I see her photo I just feel sick.
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. There's part of me that wants to say. . fuck it, let her have it
then she'll lose in the GE and we'll be rid of her once and for all. But we'll be fucked if that happens so I'm all about Obama even though he wasn't my first choice.
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MagsDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
111. No, she is exactly right
BO doesn't have the experience to cross the CiC threshold, and voters will consider that in Nov. She is simply stating facts. If you nominate BO to face McCain we will lose that argument. And that is really, really foolish.

You may want BO to answer the phone, but half the democrats and most of the other voters will want someone that was not a state senator the day before he decided to run for president.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. the "simple fact" is that she has LESS experience than Obama
Just because you support her passionately should not quash your ability to think independently. the "CIC threshold" is a meme, a talking point, that you apparently absorbed. And who has, and who has not "crossed" that nonsensical, self-server metaphor is wide open to debate. At least it is for those among us who can still think with their own brains.
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