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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:33 PM
Original message
You know who Michelle Obama reminds me of?
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 01:44 PM by Bucky
She's not a little bit like Hillary Clinton in 1992... with maybe an early Mary Richards hairdo thrown in.



She's a strong woman with a successful career that complements (and at times has surpassed, by some measures) that of her husband's. She's his life partner; she eggs him on, keeps him in check, shares a mutual respect with him, shares a life's mission with him. She frequently presents a harsher, more negative assessment of the American system than her husband does. She's sharper than a tack yet has a surprisingly charming presentation in person. She also has a talent for making the occasional sharp turn of phrase. This will doubtlessly be used against her.

But part of what's surprising is that it hasn't been used against her up till now. By December of 1991, Governor Clinton's wife was already the target of vicious smear and whisper campaigns. Mrs Obama has made a couple of statements already that, while appropriate enough in context, could all too easily be distorted for a personal attack campaign on her similar to what an idealistic 40-something Mrs Clinton went through 16 years ago. Remember how little attention, what scant condemnation, First Lady Barbara Bush recieved for calling Hillary a bitch?

And yet this hasn't happened. What's different about now, compared to where we were in 1992? What has happened since then to give Michelle Obama an easier entrance onto the national stage? The answer is simple: Hillary Clinton happened.

Women today simply get less flak for being independent, get fewer whispers than women did two decades ago, for having careers as equally important as their husbands. Women of my daughter's generation won't even be able to comprehend the resistance to strong, forceful opinions coming from the wives of male politicians. Even in the early 90s the attacks on Clinton seemed retro, out of step with modern times. But 16 years is a whole half a generation away. It may have been commonplace in what we now call "Blue America" to accept a woman as a fully equal partner in a marriage--but that wasn't where the anti-Hillary attacks came from.

Today, in "Red America," the values of gender equality have sunk in that much deeper. Such a smear campaign wouldn't work against Michelle Obama. They'll hit her with something, don't you fret, but the "bitch who doesn't know her place" malarkey simply will not fly anymore. Conservatives as readily accept female senators, female governors, delusional female rightwing media attack dogs as they accept men in these roles today. They have changed, if only their stripes; they have changed. More specifically, Hillary changed the world in that way.

She took the slings and arrows; she took the missiles and missives; she took the flame throwers. She never quit standing up. And then she got elected to the Senate. She killed the meme and the Republicans started nominating women in droves.

Oh, there's still the occasional morons who attack Clinton for being a woman (Jane Fonda calling her "a ventriloquist {sic} with a vagina" springs to mind). But these are old people, people from a generation that hadn't quite fully adapted to the notions of equality of the sexes. The only people under the age of 50 of either sex who still use gender or sex-based words to go after women they disagree with politically are people with pretty obvious sexual hang ups and deeply seeded emotional insecurities. If they weren't on the internet, you'd dismiss such people as antisocial freaks.

I'm not supporting Hillary Clinton this year (unless she's nominated, God forbid). I don't care for her style of politics. When she equated the stunningly mild criticism she's gotten from the Obama campaign to the blood vendetta Ken Starr masterminded against her, it came painfully clear that she still carries scars from all the wars unleashed on her family by the most hateful elements of our society. When she greenlights the self-defeating cheap shots against Obama with disregard for how it will affect party unity in the summer, or in November, it tells me she isn't keeping her eye on the big picture--which is sort of crucial to me in a president.

But I won't dismiss the contributions she's made to this country, to our culture, to the opportunties available to my daughter because Hillary Clinton stood up to the bullies and made them scatter. I have deep respect for Sen. Clinton and if she beats out my preferred candidate, I won't begrudge her my support or my vote. All Americans owe her a debt of gratitude for taking the hits that, ultimately, were directed against all women--from Michelle Obama to my own family. I will harp endlessly about her hiding her tax returns from the party faithful and her bad judgment on Iraq, but I will respect my opponent. She may not deserve to be president, but she more than deserves all our respect.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh Rhoda, sometimes I wanna rip Mr. Grants eyes out!
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. !! = 8+^ O
:thumbsup:
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. "The answer is simple: Hillary Clinton happened. "

Thank you for the utterly clear-headed observations.

IMO, the history books will characterize HRC's place in time and role in the U.S. in much the same way, whether or not she becomes president. She is a woman who makes a difference.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. I saw The War Room again last month. Everything Carville said they'd do to Clinton
They've done to Obama. Slightly different "they", but you can't help noticing the slime sticks a little bit less this time.
America is a better place for having had the Clintons around. Maybe in 2024 I'll be making the same crits against the Michelle Obama for President campaign.

Chelsea would so kick her ass.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. LOL! (thx) n/t
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Beregond2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Michelle/Hillary
Agreed. Whatever else we may feel about Hillary, there is no denying she has paved the way for other women to follow.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Absolutely. I keep hoping the animosity between the camps is temporary
I'm 99% certain she'd give wholehearted support to Obama once he's nominated. What's sad is that I used to be 100%.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
42.  HC has not paved woman's way
She has set my ideal of what a woman should represent back 50 years.

A real woman would not slime and lie and be so power hungry that it is all over there face.


I would never put her up as a symbol of womanhood.

Especially since she is "experienced" in politics.

Michelle Obama has more class in her little finger than HC has in her entire body.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. I've always thought that, too. One more reason Michelle gets a pass --
if they didn't, people would have to admit that they just don't like strong First Ladies. This way, they can still delude themselves that it was all Hillary's fault that she was attacked -- for her headbands, for her decorating, for her ankles, in countless personal ways -- beginning in 1991.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. God, that "ankle" shit always got my goat.
Consider the irony of John McCain calling anyone ugly. Consider the party of Newt Gingrich and Dennis Hastert attacking someone for having a less than Olympic figure.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hillary's not a homophobic mess
Sorry. Truth is truth. An Illinois Democratic Senator (both the remaining candidates are really Illinois Democratic Senators should be absolutely incapable of losing my full-bore support. Right now, both have. Now, they fortunately both have a chance to win it back. I'll let you hold your breath, though. I like air.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Hillary is also not a racist, like Michelle is either..
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
34. i can't tell by the way she runs her campaign
this has been the most racially and ethnically divisive campaign ever. well hillary has the old white vote and t6he poor white people vote. that spin comes from hill's campaign.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #34
49. The JJ comment was blown out of proportion by the BO Campaign..
that doesn't mitigate Michelle's racism.
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. ..."racism." Racism? What, racism? Michelle is "spunky", like Mary Richards
It's not nice to post accusations without even a hint or a suggestion of something specific.
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. what about the mlk comments.
what about the hispanics vs black voter crap she is trying to pimp. she and her husband are trying to unite the party not divide it using prejudicial racial comments.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
44. nor angry.
.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Huh?
I think both candidates are pro-air.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. k and r
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. Very respectful and well done.
I wish we could have more of this kind of rational discourse.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Me too....
and truth be known, I COULD really like Michelle Obama. And Steph Powers as well. If they weren't being pitted against Hillary by the powers that be.

99% of the hatred they display is nothing more than trumped up media hype.

I really wish we could all step back and see what we are doing to one another.



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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. She's like a Democratic Hillary.
I like her.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Thanks for sharing. I like Hillary too.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
36. ...
:rofl:
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
37. ...
:rofl:
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qnr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. umm....Crazy Betty the bag lady?
She hangs around the Quick Stop asking for change.



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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. !!!
LOL! Thank you! Now I understand that impulse I had at Michelle's Houston rally. While everyone else in the crowd was chanting "Yes, we can!" I felt like screaming back, "Get a job, ya lush!" It is a testament to my greatness that I resisted those impulses. But obviously her holding the rally in an alley behind the convenience store was a bad idea, even if we did collect thousands in small donations.
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Is Michelle being punished for not being a stepford wife?
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 03:28 PM by galaxy21
God forbid, she does more than smile and look pretty.

If she's tough and willing to speak out of turn, good. Obama needs someone like that in his corner.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Au contraire.
Hillary got punished for that. Michelle is celebrated for being a supermom--powerful career & great kids, too.
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jlpohio69 Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Hillary did the same....
and she was called a bitch. Give it time, and Michelle will meet the same fate.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Not if my crazy theories hold true.
As I noted in my OP, Mrs Obama has said far dumber things than "Stayed home and baked cookies" or "I'm not sitting here like Tammy Wynette." Yet there has not been a firestorm directed at her. My thesis is that because Clinton took the hits and just kept on coming, she showed the defeminizing attacks just don't work. They don't try that with Michelle because of Hillary.

I'm still not gonna support her before June, but we all owe her a debt of gratitude.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I've been saying for some time that if HRC goes out,
both Obamas stand alone and lose a tremendous amount of "insulation."
IMO, it's presumptuous to think we have a very accurate picture of that possible future chapter.

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
48. That's Why I DO Support Hillary
If there's one thing I do know about this election, it's that we're facing Corporate Candidate A v Corporate Candidate B.

Hillary has taken just about every hit imaginable. Hillary stood up, faced the press's jeers, and gave us VRWC - which we now all know to have been 100% true.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Have you seen the RW blogosphere lately?
Michelle Obama is already the victim of snarks and insinuations. Not only is she a powerful woman, but she's a powerful black woman. I've not actually seen anyone come right out and call her a "bitch" or an "uppity nigger" (yet), but those descriptions are always there, lurking between the lines.
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Georgie_92 Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. I really like Michelle.
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REACTIVATED IN CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I do, too
Jim Hightower( The Lowdown) says Barack should pick her for VP. Sounds good to me !
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
27. I do respect her contribution as well...
and it really has only been in the last two months that I decided she was not my preferred candidate for the nomination. I was a Dodd, then Edwards supporter so I came to the listening party with great expectations and faith in the potential of Senators Obama and Clinton. She has lost me as for as a supporter of her nomination, but not my respect for her contributions over the years.

K & R
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Miami Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
28. She seems like she will not take shit from anyone
and for that I respect her.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. Cat Woman?


"I want to scratch his eyes out."
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Jillian Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is who she reminds me of
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 10:07 PM by Jillian



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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
31. ha!! I *NAILED* it. Mary Tyler Moore was *exactly* who I thought of.

I'm not quite so sold on the Ellen-Barack comparison, though. :)
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
33. Omarosa? /nt
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
35. So this morning I woke up and thought to myself, the time has come
for peace. Democrats need to speak calmly about the candidates and issues and resolve the nomination one way or another. I was even ready to consider Clinton at either end of the ticket. Well . . . so much for that. What a repulsive thread.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
38. Hillary absolutely paved the path
IIRC, she was the first first lady with a graduate degree. That was big deal at the time. They jumped on her immediately for being 'too pushy'. Like Nancy Reagan wasn't. :eyeroll:

I think Hillary was also the first first lady to be so reviled and attacked so openly by RW blabbers. The RW positively set their sights on her.

A decade and a half later, she's a legitimate contender for the presidency of the United States. I commend Hillary Clinton for clearing the path, surviving the fray and succeeding as a Senator.

The old attacks won't work on Michelle Obama. When people see her speak, they like her. She's an exceptional individual and America is no longer ignorant to the idea of a strong first lady. Hillary deserves props for that.
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. your post and the OP say a lot about what we all need to consider as this winds down to the finish
Hillary Clinton took an incredible amount of backlash just for being the woman she was, who happened to be married to the candidate, then nominee, then president. The "R" 's and wingnuts threw everything at her that they could find and she still came back, apparantly stronger than ever. It was truly scary to the far right, conservative crazies that a woman could have that much clout and influence and make it publicly known that she did and have her husband openly admit to it, in fact brag on it. Her classmates at Wellesley said she would be the first woman to be President of the United States

We will never know how much inner pain she suffered, because she just pulled up her socks and kept going. I agree that if Hillary Clinton hadn't happened, Michelle Obama would be catching a lot more flak right now. I don't know much about Michelle, as she isn't running for president I haven't really researched her. I do not tend to vote for candidates on the basis of the spousal unit.

This has been just the hardest primary season ever, with such an embarrassment of riches for the Democrats to choose from. Any of the original group would have been an outstanding nominee, as well as two or three others who didn't participate. And then to have it come down between the first woman to carry a party ticket and the first African American to carry a party ticket, and to have them both be so popular, shows just how far we have come in this nation

I went from Edwards to excruciatingly undecided until the last few days before the vote down here. I ultimately went Obama for gut reasons only. However, it won't stop me from going all out for Hillary if she ultimately is the nominee. We so need to have a Democrat in the White House, and a strong effective individual in that role. Either of the two left standing will be fine with me.

And the infighting will subside, I hope!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
39.  She simply impresses me as a rude, arrogant person.
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 08:18 AM by WinkyDink
Thinks she's all that, and that Hillary has no right to even consider being her husband's opponent.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. She calls them like she sees them
Ant there are millions of women that respect her for it.

When you see someone stepping all over your husband when he is trying to take the high road,yes you defend him!

She is not sitting on the back of any bus, she is a modern day woman that is smart!
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
40. ...
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Pharlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
45. At this point in the 1992 election season, Hillary wasn't dealing with the
'cookies' and 'Tammy Wynette song' statements as much as she was being forced to address the Gennifer Flowers/Bill Clinton fidelity issue. Another thing that REALLY stuck in the craw of a LOT of people was the "Rodham" in HRC. That was a MAJOR issue for a lot of people. Say what you will about Dan Quayle, Marilyn Quayle is a woman in much the same mold as HRC and Michelle Obama - strong, independent, and - in her case definitely smarter than her spouse.

Marilyn Quayle took a beating for it, and unfortunately for her, did the GOP expedient thing - and dropped the 'Tucker' from her name.

After Hillary refused to drop the 'Rodham' from her name during the 1992 election, I recall Marilyn Quayle bringing the 'Tucker' back into her name.

And, boy, does Michelle Obama remind me of HRC in 1992. The same people who have a problem with HRC as a strong independent woman will soon come to realize that Michelle Obama is made of the same cloth.

Barack/Michelle will be as much a co-presidency as Bill/Hillary was. Neither one of those ladies has the ability to walk 3 steps behind their respective spouse and say 'Yes, Dear.' when they KNOW that their husband would be making a poor decision.

Obama supporters need to realize that if Hillary isn't there to bash, Michelle will become the lightning rod for the 'conservative view of women' (aka: chattel) crowd.



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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Michelle's a lot different to Hillary- wheras Hillary was basically co-president
I doubt Michelle will ask to be put in charge of universal healthcare. I don't think she's even interested in some sort of political career.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
47. A Harpie "scratching out eyes" for eternity
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 09:37 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
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