Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Clarkies who support Obama. How do you feel right about now?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:30 AM
Original message
Clarkies who support Obama. How do you feel right about now?
I'm still waiting for Clark to walk back his comment yesterday.

Retired NATO commander Wes Clark and former State Department spokesman Jamie Rubin attacked Samantha Power on a Clinton conference call just now, a fairly poignant moment because Power, in the past, has been their vocal ally.

Clark today called her words "disturbing" and suggested that Obama's stance boils down to "simply show up and say, 'What's this all about?'" That approach would, he said, "leave us still at war."

Rubin blamed Obama for the mess, in particular for giving a senior foreign policy adviser he described her variously as a "guru" and a "svengali" with "unlimited access to the candidate free rein to tour the world talking about his policies in a field where words matter. "He can't seem to run a foreign policy team the way it's supposed to run," he said, calling it "amateur hour on making foreign policy."


Okay, Rubin's a dick. There's also this:
Speaking to a BBC interviewer, Power said Obama would not necessarily base every military decision he would make in 2009 would be based in full on a plan crafted now.

"He will of course not rely upon some plan that hes crafted as a presidential candidate or as a US senator," said Power, who resigned after calling Clinton a "monster" in a separate dust-up.

"He will rely upon a plan, an operational plan that he pulls together, in consultation with people who are on the ground, to whom he doesnt have daily access now as a result of not being the president," Powers told the BBC's Stephen Sackur Monday.

Former NATO commander Wesley Clark, a Clinton supporter, called the comments "disturbing," and he accused Obama of not being prepared enough to be commander in chief and properly oversee an end to the Iraq war.

"That means knowing where you're headed before you start down the path," Clark said.


I'm still a Wes Clark Democrat, but saying Obama isn't prepared enough seems out of character from someone who in the past always kept his eye on the big picture--winning in November. Are you angry? Dismayed? In a holding pattern till he clarifies? Shrugging it off as campaign rhetoric?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Disappointed...Wes has gone too far...
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 11:51 AM by tokenlib
I can understand the loyalty to his former Commander in Chief, and the Arkansas ties. But to participate in the Clinton slime toss is too much. Hillary's phantom experience has not been questioned enough by the press.

I take comfort in that so many Clarkies refused to follow Wes into the Clinton camp. I think that says a lot. Many of us see more of what we thought Clark stood for on foreign policy--in Barack!

I wonder if WESPAC took a hit when he endorsed Hillary...


I still think Wes should be on the short list for VP ....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Interesting
The Clintons had big big money behind them. I'm sure he netted positive when he jumped on the band wagon. Clark is a guy who believes in winning. At the time, it wasn't a bad decision. But I agree. I think he's just a little too entrenched.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Didn't Gen. Clark endorse Sen. Hillary Clinton severl months ago?
Given this, it doesn't surprise me that Gen. Clark would boost Sen. Clinton over Sen. Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. He's been a feature of her campaign since October, I think.
I was responding to the suggestion that supporting her might have hurt donations to his PAC. I don't think he joined her for the dollars; he joined her because he knows her and he thought she would win and be a good president. But I don't think he took a financial by doing so, either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm compartmentalizing and detaching myself from it.
Also putting lots of people on Ignore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. That's cool
My ignore list blossomed two weeks ago, but I've used it sparingly ever since. If I wasn't a little pissed off at GDP, I wouldn't feel like a real DUer
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
featherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. Just politics.... Clark is supporting his candidate
I don't hold it against him. It was a silly interpretation of Powers' perfectly sensible remarks so I don't take it too seriously
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. See, at this point, I don't even recall what Powers said.
What I thought was a stretch was giving Powers's words the full credit of Obama's plans. I assume that Zbig Brzensky pulls a little more weight in what Obama's policies might be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. the way I see it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. He took the step beyond
For someone who preached that Democrats must stand up for Democrats questioning a leadding candidate's ability to keep the country safe would mean that General Clark has changed his mind about what it takes to be a team player. Adding to that injury, he knowingly said that Obama has no plan for getting us out of Iraq. Why did he say that? Because Samantha Powers made the same statement that Wes has made many times: until one knows what is happening on the ground in real time, there can be no specific operational plan. Clinton has said that she will talk to the JCS and ask for a plan; Obama has said that he will talk to the JCS and ask for a plan; however, according to the General this answer is only perfect when it comes from Clinton. If you are having problems understanding the meaning of what Wes Clark said yesterday, it is because he was wading in Clinton's slough of deceit.

He also stabbed Powers in the back on a day when she needed a friend. Of course she was once there with staunch support for him. I guess friendship isn't his strong suit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. I gave up on Clark when he sold himself out...
for political points.

I thought Wes Clark was a principles over politics person.

I was wrong
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I'm sorry to hear that
I don't think you were wrong. I just don't think any one person is flawlessly consistant. Except Dick Cheney, of course.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Well I don't want to be like all the Obama haters who turn away from
all the people who endorsed Obama that they used to really like ... so I will say after this election I will still like wes clark..I liked him before and I will like him after the election...lets get some reality here folks we have to keep a cool head..these people are our dems and although there are many I really don't like and did not like before these primaries...starting with the blue dogs, rahm Emanuel, schumer,feinstein, etc..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Here's the problem with Clark in particular....
Clinton pretty much has supported the things he was SPECIFICALLY against. The war... saber rattling against Iran.. etc.

Clark went on a crusade against the Iran war possibilities and Clinton voted for Kyl/Lieberman, which lays the groundwork for a war with Iran, in the same way her husband laid the groundwork for the war against Iraq with his own resolution and rhetoric in the late 90's.

When the owner of this website (http://www.stopiranwar.com /) Supports the candidate who voted for the Iraq war and is currently laying the groundwork for the Iran war, I have to wonder whether that person is principled.

I am forced to believe that either Wes Clark doesn't really believe in stopping war with Iran OR he is willing to sell out that principle to support a candidate who is more than willing to passively watch that war start and even aid in its creation by voting for the legislation that will lay the groundwork for that war.

FOr other people who have endorsed Clinton, I have no qualms, b/c she doesn't represent the antitheses of what they claim to be their core issue.. However, my admiration of Wes Clark is finished, because I simply don't trust him or his judgment any more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. Wesley Clark is Democrat that favors one candidate
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 02:53 PM by TheDebbieDee
over another.

Are all you Obamacans anti-military?

Gen. Wesley Clark has spent decades defending this country from its enemies and he has a right to opinion, whatever it is, now that he is civilian.

It seems to me that far too many of you think he no longer has credibility now that he is able to be politically active and supports candidate that is not yours.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Self-delete.................
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 02:54 PM by TheDebbieDee
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Yes, I honor his career
It was truly unfortunate when Bill Clinton sold Clark out to end it. But then Clinton had more important people to defend, a republican.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. "Bill Clinton sold Clark out....."
What are you talking about? Please respond with a link if this statement is not just another "Clinton Crime Syndicate" bull$hit story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. While your question is hostile in tone, I will answer
Many people complain about the negative level of discourse on DU and other forums, when they are often the very people making it increasingly difficult to have a meaningful conversation. You seem to assume that I would peddle falsehoods, and yet, anyone with google and real interest could track down this story.

One place you can find the tale is in General Clark's book, Waging Modern War, he writes that he was attending a dinner being held to honor him in Lithuania
when he received a call from Washington telling him that he was being relieved of duty. Imagine if you will how Clark felt: he had won a difficult war without losing a single American life, and he was out. He called people in Washington only to learn that Cohen was out of the country and that nothing could be done because before calling him, Cohen had already released the Washington Post.

Switching to Halberstam's account, since he was a witness, Clinton signed the orders without actually reading or understanding what was going on. If Clinton was angry with Cohen, he never opened his mouth nor did he have anything but praise for Cohen. Thirty-four years of your life and what do you get? When Clark was running for president, it was painful to watch him being asked during every interview: "Why were you fired?" And if Clark wasn't on the tube, the pundits kept up the drumbeat anyway. Again, Clinton never said a word. What a career ender; a black mark.

Oh there are other events, other slights including the NATO celebration. But this stands out to me as a big one.

Someone did speak out on behalf of Wes; Samantha Powers. Imagine my shock when I listened to the General saying negative things about her yesterday.

Both Halberstam's War in a Time of Peace, and Clark's book are excellent reads. For a link, I would start with the brief account at Wiki:

Wiki



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. He now lacks credibility...
since he is supporting a war candidate.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. Disappointed to say the least
I still respect Clark. anyone can make mistakes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Thanks. I agree.
I'm still hoping he walks that back. Certainly his comments weren't as bad as Rubin's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Disappointed and questioning his judgment in supporting Hillary.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 11:52 AM by Quixote1818
He must see that she is a walking disaster in the General. I guess he is being the good friend he is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. They weren't all that close until 1999-2000.
I differ from his judgment, but I can't say he made a bad call. Only the wrong call.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
11. I say GOBAMA
That's it. I can't see much of the Wes Clark I knew, at this point in his surrogate-hood, so I won't try.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. Sorry, I can't let that go unanswered...
There is nothing in Clark's advocacy for Hillary that goes against his principles as expressed in the past. It is former Clarkies who are in the hope and change mode that aren't recognizable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Interesting
To read that you are promoting hopelessness and staying the course.

What ever happened to Clark's admonishments for Democrats to support Democrats? After his remarks about a leading Democratic candidate's inability to hold the title of CiC, I guess he wasn't serious.

So how's that Webb Amendment coming?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elana i am Donating Member (626 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. it's no skin off my nose
we're all entitled to our opinions.

i was imagining him as obama's VP but since he thinks that obama is lacking in experience maybe not.

campaign rhetoric.

let's put it this way...if the president has to have a certain amount and quality of foreign policy experience to BE president, then the pool of potential presidential material must be a little puddle. you have to be in certain positions of power to get that experience. to my knowledge, bill was the president during his presidency, not hillary so hillary should not have that experience unless she was regularly privy to and party to info and decisions she should not have been. also, to my knowledge, bill did not have that experience when he was elected. that's what advisors are for.

"co-presidency" with her hubby doesn't count for anything in my book because that's not what it was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. He lost all credibility with me. He's just a suck-up for power, now. Losing integrity by the day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Anybody who criticizes the O-man is dead to you and the other O-bots.
How predictable.

Bake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. He went against his own principles for politics. He's pretty much dead to me, yeah.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. As is any Dem who does't bow to the mighty Obama!
But that's OK, because he'll pull in all those independents and Pukes. Right.

Bake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I lose respect for people who will sell themselves out for power. No matter
who they are, or who they support.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. Still spittin' out
red herrings which have nothing to do with Clark's going against his earlier principles to diss Samantha Powers and Obama 'cause he supports the warmongering candidate now.

And all you can come up with are platitudes and soundbytes about Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bigleaf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Who's Clark? {sarcasm}
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. I never liked Clark as VP...
...I like someone like Evan Bayh, Mark Warner (Long, long shot), I think Biden would even be good. Actually, I think Biden is probably my first choice, the more I think about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. i don't think we can have 2 senators also anyone with a voting record as long as
Biden's becomes difficult, Bayh and Warner are good choices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. I pretty much wrote Clark off when he endorse Hillary, that was disturbing...
So there you have it. I guess he is really no different than any of the rest of them. Sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Sad. He's basically pulling a Colin Powell.
Choosing loyalty over honesty.

He knows that what Samantha Power said is true -- that the logistics of any plan are subject to new data. Of course they are. To say they're not would be idiocy. That doesn't mean the goal changes.

The whole "Only Hillary or McCain are ready to be commander-in-chief" line of attack is a betrayal of the Democratic party, and it sickens me. I've always thought that Clark could be of great service by running as Obama's VP. It would be a meaningful inclusion of a central player in the Clinton camp. Now he's gone and sabotaged that possibility.

It's just a shame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. I love Jamie Rubin and his wife.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. Not happy at all
I know he's in the Clinton's camp but I don't know how he can go there when Hillary has no more real world experience than Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jersey Ginny Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. Disappointed. I thought Clark would make a great Obama VP n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. I don't really care that much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. First off, II would trust Wesley Clark's judgment before
Anyone elses...Sayeth Clark re. Obama on making foreign policy decisions "That means knowing where you are headed before you start down the path,"
Sayeth Rubin re. Obama on making foreign policy "amateur hour on making foreign policy".
It would be nice to know what foreign policy Obama has in mind, if any. Hope and change isn't a policy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
40. "That means knowing where you're headed before you start down the path,"
Sounds like Hillary's stated post-mortem on her IWR vote.

I was 1000% for Wes in 2004. He's just another player in the game to me now. Still thankful he's a Democrat, but that's about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kaylee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
41. At bit disappointed he is spinning issues. I always felt
he had a strong, independent voice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
43. Can you point out where Clark said "Obama isn't prepared enough to be CIC"?
Thanks in advance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
46. I think he just really really really wants that VP slot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Jul 29th 2014, 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC