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Josh Marshall: Hillary Getting the Free Ride of All Free Rides on Foreign Policy Experience

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:11 AM
Original message
Josh Marshall: Hillary Getting the Free Ride of All Free Rides on Foreign Policy Experience
03.08.08 -- 10:54AM // link | recommend (11)

PLEASE
I guess these things run in cycles. But let's get real and admit that Hillary Clinton is getting the free ride of all free rides on her repeated invocations of foreign policy experience. As part of her foreign policy experience Clinton claims "I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland."

The whole quote is as follows ...

You know, I was involved for 15 years in, you know, foreign policy and security policy. You know, I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland. I negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safety from Kosovo. I've been standing up against, you know, the Chinese government over women's rights and standing up for human rights in many different places. I've served on the Senate Armed Services Committee. And I was the only senator of either party asked to be on an important task force put together by the Pentagon under this administration to figure out what to do with our military going forward.
Now, the Chicago Tribune reports that the borders in question were opened the day before Clinton arrived in the region. But the Northern Ireland claim is the kicker. George Mitchell, who's obviously a friend, has called Clinton's role 'helpful', according to CNN. But the UK papers today have David Trimble, a key unionist leader and former First Minister and Irish historian Tim Pat Coogan both pooh-poohing her claims. Coogan says her role was "part of the stage effects, the optics."

These are the sorts of puffed up claims that get other candidates held up to mockery and derision. But Clinton is using them as cudgels in her effort to portray Obama as a lightweight with no experience dealing with foreign policy crises. And basically she's getting a pass. I guess it speaks to the advantages of staying on offense, which can never be gainsaid. But she's still getting a big pass on this and a lot else.



http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com /

--Josh Marshall

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. She gets a lot of free rides. The press calls her out on almost nothing.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. They sell more ads by prolonging the fight-it's not as if McCain is exciting.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The media is not going to start ripping her now, you're right--they
want this to keep going. But they will, if she's the nominee. I am baffled by Clintonites who think she's been "vetted" already. The GOP is drooling, just waiting to unload.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's Mark Penn's BS SPIN-think their NAFTA bullshit
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. No offense, but she can get down in the mud. She is proving it everyday.
But, the GOP are masters of this game.
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Smelting Pot Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:27 AM
Original message
"she can get down in the mud"
THAT is exactly what is wrong with our political system! "Getting down in the mud" should NEVER be the standard by which we measure our candidates for President. It is time that we put the highest office in the country back on the level we NEED it to be on. Leave the mudslinging to the GOP. Do not accept a "fighter" when you have a "motivator" available. More fighting is not what this country needs right now!
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
18. I agree. But that does not seem to be what people want. The MSM is fanning the flames on this type
of crap because its good ratings for them. There is a certain segment of America that loves it and the country be damned.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I've only heard that Obama ACTUALLY WON TX on NPR & KO-Where's the rest of the media?
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
26. "vetted"
"vetted" = Republicans and the MSM keeping their powder dry. The Hillarhoids just stay busy trying to keep their hands over their ears and eyes at the same time while hurling false invective at all who try to make them understand.

We woman-hater cultists know better. Google is such an easy concept.

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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. Yeah, a little bit of truth will ruin their whole plan.
And screw up their paychecks. Plus, they really love this shit.

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. They do attack her viciously, but never on matters of substance or policy
You're expecting the MSM press to act like professionals. They have a story to tell and soap to sell. They'll attack her gender, her personality, her campaigning style. They never talk about things that voters care about.

But I tell ya, that Fred Thompson sure smells good!
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I don't think they attack her "viciously", sorry. I know there's been
some sexist stuff, but she wants that---makes her look like a victim, and then all the women will turn out to support her. And she brings on a lot of her own ridicule--remember the "Laugh", last fall? Whenever she got a tough question on TV? That lasted a couple weeks, and then it disappeared--bizarre (I guess it didn't focus-group well). Can you imagine Obama or Edwards getting away with theatrics like that?
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. She got what was probably the worst press coverage I've ever seen for most
of this primary season. Only recently has that changed. Also, no candidate in political history except for Thomas Dewey probably got more lopsided favorable coverage for so long as Barack Obama.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. No--you are forgetting last summer and fall, when she RULED
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 11:44 AM by wienerdoggie
the media, when they put her on all five Sunday shows at once, so that she could appear like the inevitable star. The press might take snarky shots at her, but she generally commands unwarranted respect from them--they give her a lot of power. She was the presumed front-runner right up until Wisconsin. Obama is the one who was ridiculed with "messiah" bullshit and "cult" BS, they built him up into something he wasn't (and certainly didn't want to be), and now they're trying to tear him down: "See, America? He's just a politician, not a messiah--his message is all fluff after all, his balloon is popping, etc., etc." They tell us he can't "go negative" on Hillary because he "boxed himself in"--no, he never did. The media boxed him in--they defined him for us, and now they're trying to bring him down. Hillary was never deeply examined--if she says she's experienced, the media starts saying that unchallenged, as a fact. If she says she's tough, and vetted, and a fighter, the media agrees--without proof or question. She's been allowed to define herself, and get tremendous respect, while Obama is at their mercy. If you don't see that bias, then...oh well.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Hey, they gotta keep her viable...
to keep that story alive thru November. And to fill their wallets.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. Ceremonial tea parties don't count
unless she's applying for the Mad Hatter job.
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. That's tea and cock, 'scuse me cookies. Tea and cookies.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. But Obama is a lightweight. nt
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Sen Rockefeller, Chair of the Senate Intel Committee says different:
Barack Obama is the most qualified person - Democrat or Republican - to lead our country in the face of enormous challenges: the very real threat of terrorism, economic uncertainty, and instability at home and abroad," said Rockefeller, D-W.Va. and the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Rockefeller's endorsement comes on the heels of a new Hillary Clinton ad running in Texas where she portrays herself as the leader Americans want in a time of crisis. The two Democrats are locked in a fight for the Democratic nomination, with Tuesday primaries in Texas and Ohio expected to be close.



"As chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I am all too aware that the threats we face are unconventional," Rockefeller said. "They are sophisticated. They are constantly changing and adapting. And they are very serious."

West Virginia's junior senator also criticized decisions by Sen. Clinton and himself for voting to go forward with the war in Iraq.

"What matters most in the Oval Office is sound judgment and decisive action," Rockefeller said. "It's about getting it right on crucial national security questions the first time - and every time."

-snip

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200802290687
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. Sen Dodd (Senior member of Committee on Foreign Relations, Chair on Banking, Housing & Urban Affairs
-snip

Dodd is a senior member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and chairman of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs.

The Connecticut lawmaker dropped out of the race for the Democratic nomination following a poor showing in the Iowa caucuses in January.


In an e-mail to supporters Tuesday morning, Dodd wrote, "While both of our party's remaining candidates are extremely talented and would make an excellent commander in chief, I am throwing my support to the candidate who I believe will open the most eyes to our shared Democratic vision.

"I'm deeply proud to be the first 2008 Democratic presidential candidate to endorse Barack Obama," he added. "He is ready to be president. And I am ready to support him -- to work with him and for him and help elect him our 44th president."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/26/dodd.obama/index...
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. But Tina Fey Says That Clinton Gets All The Hard Questions!
Ever since Clinton left college to work for a corporate law firm, she has been bringing peace to the world. She single-handedly knocked down the Berlin Wall.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. my favorite is when Clinton talks about giving speeches on human rights in China
According to Clinton's own campaign speeches are words, not action.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. She's also gotten the free pass from Obama
He'd given her total benefit of the doubt when it comes to her first lady experience. The only criticism he's leveled was that she can't report on only the successes (stock market rise) and none of the failures (like NAFTA). I think that it's time to deflate her balloon.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. He promised a clean focused campaign and that's what he's delivering. Clinton
is trying to draw him into a bloody fight to leave both bloodied. Let her get soaked and ruin all future hope while he remains focused on matters that make a difference in people's lives.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Let's hope that TX, RI, and OH aren't symptoms of a greater pattern then
If Clinton is going to get traction by leveling attacks then he can't use the same strategy over and over. Staying clean is great if you're winning. Let me also say that I think that you can talk about your opponents weaknesses without fighting dirty.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. OBAMA WON MORE DELEGATES IN TX AFTER THE CAUCUS TALLIES PER NPR, KO.
As far as my state of OH:

Clinton staff disinformation on NAFTA, plus Republican cross-voting

IMHO-Limbaugh's push to vote for Hillary is a calculated rovian ploy to influence the Democratic primary w a candidate they believe they can beat. Think about it-he has detested Hillary in the past but would rather select her over an old, probably 1 term Republican that could be coupled with a VP who better reflects their goals? I say he is being disingenuous, and it doesn't pass the smell test. Then you add Bill Cunningham (southern Ohio RW radio) to the mix and voila a major cross-over push in Ohio to stop the momentum of a candidate they fear and promote a candidate who will bring out the Republican base and they believe they can beat.

McCain is the nominee so what would stop Republicans from this cross-over voting and effecting who they will run against?

Turned away at poll? Click here
Some are told to wait - or come back later
BY JESSICA BROWN AND BARRETT J. BRUNSMAN | JLBROWN@ENQUIRER.COM | BBRUNSMAN@ENQUIRER.COM

-snip
In that heavily Republican county, officials weren't prepared for the high number of Democratic ballots requested. Some voters waited for more than an hour for new ballots to be delivered; others were asked to come back later or asked to go to the county Board of Elections to vote.

The reason: a wave of "crossover" voting, in which normally Republican voters asked for Democratic ballots. In Clermont County, turnout surged to 43 percent Tuesday - compared with just 31 percent in the 2004 presidential primary.

-snip

Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner said there was also a "crossover problem" in Akron and elsewhere in Summit County where many Republicans and non-enrolled Ohioans voted Democratic.

-snip

Of Clermont County's 128,128 registered voters, 37,714 are registered Republicans and 14,496 are registered Democrats. With all precincts counted, 26,279 people had cast Democratic ballots and 28,032 had cast Republican ballots.

Warren County has 12,440 registered Democrats and 41,377 registered Republicans. With all precincts reporting, that county was reporting 27,855 Democratic ballots cast and 28,683 Republican.

-snip
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200...


GOP voters crossing over in large numbers
Posted by Tom Ott, Michael Scott, Joe Wagner & Maggi Martin March 04, 2008 14:51PM
Categories: At the polls

Poll watchers throughout Ohio are noting large numbers of Republican voters crossing over to vote in the Democratic Primary between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

In the Republican roost of Chagrin Falls, veteran poll worker Liz McFadden was amazed at the number of people jumping the party's ship. Democrats accounted for 70 percent of the voters in her precinct, one of seven at the village's high school.

"That's a complete reversal of what it normally is, even more so," she said. "I've never seen a switch like this."

The defectors had motives both pure and sinister.

-snip
http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/03/gop_voters_cr...

FROM OSU ELECTION LAW:

Cross-over voting under Ohio law

March 4, 2008

Edward B. Foley
Director, Election Law @ Moritz
Robert M. Duncan/Jones Day Designated Professor of Law
Moritz College of Law


Blogs at both the Plain Dealer and Dispatch are reporting Republican cross-over votes in the Democratic candidate for Senator Clinton on the ground that she would be an easier nominee for Senator McCain to beat. It is unclear how widespread this phenomenon is and whether, if calculable, could make a difference in either the statewide total popular vote or the awarding of delegates between Senators Clinton and Obama. There is also the question whether it is legal, and if not, whether it is remediable in any way.

Although it is widely reported that Ohio permits Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary (and vice versa), that is not technically true. Ohio law does permit voters to switch party affiliation on the day of the primary, but it has a rather awkward mechanism that attempts to ascertain that the switch is sincereand to prevent insincere party-raiding of the kind that (as described above) is being reported today.

Section 3513.19 of the Ohio Revised Code states that it is the duty of poll workers in Ohio to challenge the right of person to vote in a particular partys primary if a poll worker doubts the persons eligibility based on the ground (among others) that the person is "not affiliated with or is not a member of the political party whose ballot the person desires to vote. The same section further specifies that the poll worker is to determine the voters previous party affiliation by examining the voting records of the past two years. If those records show the voter to be a Republican, for example, then before giving the voter a Democratic ballot in the current primary, the statute then directs the poll worker to have the voter sign a statement, made under penalty of election falsification, that the person desires to be affiliated with and supports the principles of the political party whose primary ballot the person desires to vote.

This statement is supposed to be the test of the voters sincerity in switching party affiliation. Section 3513.20 of the Code make clear that a voter who refuses to sign the statement is to receive a provisional rather than regular ballot. Indeed, even if the voter is willing to sign the statement, but the majority of poll workers at the precinct believe the voter is not sincere in switching parties, then the poll workers are to give the voter a provisional rather than regular ballot.

-snip
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/freefair/articles....

From the Warren County BOE (Warren is a Republican stronghold outside of Cincinnati where the faux "Level 10 Homeland Security shutdown of the BOE occurred in 2004) web page and found that the democrats voted at 223% of the total Dems in the county. Some turnout!

BALLOTS CAST - TOTAL 57,396
REGISTERED VOTERS - DEMOCRATIC 12,440
REGISTERED VOTERS - REPUBLICAN 41,377
BALLOTS CAST - REPUBLICAN 28,683
BALLOTS CAST - DEMOCRATIC 27,855
source: warren county BOE http://snipurl.com/212z3

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/03/ballot_1.html

Board of Elections Director Jane Platten said Democratic ballots ran out at the Grantwood Golf Course in Solon at 6:15 p.m. "A significant line of people waited 45 minutes to vote," she said. Nobody was turned away, Platten said.

There also was up to a 30-minute delay at the Lonnie Burten Recreation Center, on East 46th Street, in Cleveland, while more ballots were delivered, Platten said.

At least one precinct at Olmsted Falls High School ran out of Democratic ballots, according to Keith Smith, 27. He said he waited about a half-hour before leaving to tend to his family.

from an election integrity list serv:

On Monday Rush Limbaugh was advocating a "strategery" to his
listeners, suggesting that they should vote for Hillary where
possible to prolong Democratic in-fighting, reduce the coffers of the
Democratic nominee by having donors split between two candidates, and
force them to focus on each other rather than bloodying McCain all
the way until the convention.

I'm not at all surprised by crossover in Ohio because that state,
much like Harrisburg, PA where I currently live, is saturated with
stations that carry Limbaugh. I can get his hateful, ignorant
ranting on no less than 6 stations in and around the Harrisburg area.

I'm actually surprised no major news outlets have been talking about
this potential influence on the Ohio and Texas results since they
were so out-of-step with where the party is moving.

Ohio GOP roots for Hillary
BY HOWARD WILKINSON | HWILKINSON@ENQUIRER.COM
One of the worst-kept secrets of the Ohio presidential primary is that Republican party leaders have a candidate they are rooting for on the Democratic side.

Her name is Hillary Clinton, and they believe that if she wins the Ohio primary and goes on to become the Democratic nominee, she will be the one who unites their dispirited and divided party and give them their best chance of keeping the White House this fall.



It is a belief that the Clinton campaign says is wrong-headed and they will campaign across the state for the next three weeks making the argument that their battle-tested, experienced candidate is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with John McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee this fall.

Shell need to do some convincing, fast. For Clinton, Ohios March 4 primary is looking more and more critical.

-snip

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200...







Tuesday, March 4

Don't Call Ohio Too Soon
That's my advice to the news media tonight, in the event of a close Democratic primary. As returns start to come in from Ohio this evening, we should keep in mind circumstances that will probably result in more outstanding ballots on Election Night than in other states, and maybe even more than is typical for Ohio. If that's true, a margin that appears insurmountable on paper -- even with all precincts nominally reported -- may actually be smaller than it appears.

Here are the big things that might cause there to be a large number of yet-to-be-counted ballots than usual on election night:

- Provisional Ballots. Ohio heavily relies on provisional ballots, which are used for people who've moved, who don't have required ID, and whose names don't appear on the registration list when they go to vote, among other things. Most of us probably remember the delay in calling the 2004 election, when Bush led Kerry by some 136,000 votes with approximately 158,000 provisional ballots left to be verified and counted. When these ballots were eventually counted, they cut Bush's margin by about 18,000 votes. In November 2006, an even higher percentage of Ohio voters cast provisional ballots, over 3%. In light of Ohio's new ID rules, still not completely familiar to many voters, and potential problems with its statewide registration list, we can expect lots of provisionals today as well. Voters have 10 days after the election to bring in their information, and it will be a while after that before we know how many of the provisionals will be counted and who they're cast for.

- Residual Votes. These are ballots that don't register a valid vote, at least when they're run through automatic tabulators. They include undervotes (a ballot that doesn't register a choice) and overvotes (a ballot that registers more than the allowed number of choices). Both can sometimes result from ambiguous marks with paper-based voting systems, but some of the undervotes may be recoverable through a manual recount. Under Ohio law, a ballot on which a voter circles the candidates name or makes a mark with an instrument that can't be recognized by tabulating equiment should eventually be counted. As I explained in Sunday's post, we can expect a significant number of residual votes in Ohio today, because a large number of voters will be voting with central-count optical scan equipment that doesn't allow voters to check for mistakes before casting their votes. Cuyahoga County will be especially hard hit, but other counties will also be affected given that voters in touchscreen counties are allowed to vote a paper ballot on request. If the race winds up being tight, it will be important to know how many residual votes there are -- especially in the Cleveland area.

-SNIP
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/blogs/tokaji/2008/03/dont-call...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
14. She's not really a President
but she slept with one at a Holiday Inn! (Isn't that the same thing??)
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. exactly
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
22. That Chicago Tribune article was the first attempt to explore this issue
and I notice that no one has been talking about it. I awoke to read it on the front page, with my coffee, yesterday morning, and felt it was merely a foretaste of the scrutiny her claims to experience will get. And believe me, that photo of her one-day trip to Bosnia in 1996, with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow, will be the juicy image on every tv show and oppo ad if she continues to overblow her claims on this front and claim bragging rights on things she had little to do with.

It's almost like she's asking for it. I'm still waiting for someone to challenge her claim to having invented S-Chip and being solely responsible for its implementation.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
25. It's funny as hell
Me and Big John here, we gots the juice to be two-fisted Commander in Chief humdingers. The new kid, not so much. Innit right, John?

McCain must be giggling his ass off.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. Obama's campaign on Hillary's experience
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Right..hilary clinton is the big foreign policy go
to girl..Not according to the Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province.
who calls her claims "a wee bit silly". That's hilary..a tragic silly girl.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/07/nobel-winner-h...
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Wee Bit Silly
translated means-fucking bullshit.

Why haven't we received a detailed accounting of her alleged foreign-policy experience, minus the visits she made as first lady where she had tea & cookies with these people? Oh right, it would be a blank sheet.
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