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As regards to HILLARY, itís the TRUST thing stupid!!!

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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:39 AM
Original message
As regards to HILLARY, itís the TRUST thing stupid!!!
I was an Edwardís supporter until he dropped out. I voted for him anyway in our primary. I had no strong feeling for Obama or Clinton at the time and could have easily voted for either one of them in the General.

Wow, what a difference a few weeks can make in the life of politics. I always wondered why half this country said they would not vote for Hillary to start out with. NOW I KNOW. When the light shines and you see the truth for what it is, there is just no way you can go back to that place of ignorance.

Here are just a few things I have seen out of Hillary the last few weeks:
She bashes Obama for having contacts with the Canadian while her own people were doing the same thing.
She bashes Obama for his Reagan remarks and yet she pushes McCain over Obama in the General election
(Cardinal sin of loyalty to the party)
She claims she has all this experience, and upon closer examination, itís just not true

Now Hillaryís supporters can split hairs and argue on all of the technicalities of the above list. But hereís the thing: Anyone who is blind in one eye and canít see out of the other eye can still see that there are some very disturbing deep seated negative patterns going on with Hillary.

I do the best I can in articulating myself but sometimes I feel a list of words can convey my thoughts better. Here goes: HYPOCRITE, DISHONEST, UNTRUSTWORTHY, DISLOYAL, UNDIGNIFIED, and LOW CHARACTER.

Here is the bottom line for me. I see Hillary as the type of person who will win at any cost. I also see her as the type of person who has no moral conviction or compass. She will do whatever, and say whatever is politically expedient at the moment.

She says she will pull the troops out, Will she? I donít trust her.
She says she will pick moderate Supreme Court Justices, will she? If itís politely expedient for here to do so at the time.
She says she wants health care for all Americans, do you trust her? Not at all

I have lived a pretty full life and I am pretty good at sizing people up. I have been around the block a few times and I have met some two legged snakes along the way, and it truly saddens my heart to say this, but Hillary is one of those two legged snakes.








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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. That sums it up for me too!!
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 11:43 AM by thunder rising
(and that's 5 votes!)
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great post-sad that we're at this point, but glad you have recognized
the true measure of this candidate.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's all subjective
Personally, I never trusted John Edwards as far as I could throw him. Everybody's different, I guess.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Here's the thing MonkeyFunk, to some degree ones perceptions are subjective. Our views of reality
are always shaded by the filters of our cultural influences, our family upbring, and the experiences of our lives. But that does not mean that we cna't get pretty close to matching our perceptions with reality through observation.

When one observes repeated patterns, as I do with Hillary, You can get pretty damn close to objective truth.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Nope
I disagree vehemently.

You start out not liking Clinton - then you view everything she says or does through that filter. It's called confirmation bias.

Do you believe it was "true" that Al Gore was a wimp? That John Kerry was a flip-flopping coward? Plenty of people believed those things to be absolutely true, because they were predisposed to believe them, and then looked at everything through that lens.

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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Confirmation Bias does exist. This reminds me of a song by Simon & Garfunkel where they say
"A man hears 'what' he wants to hear, and forgets about the rest".

This is obviously a part of the human condition. All one can do then is to speak from personal experience. But, each one of, are indeed a part of the whole. In other words, if you have a thought, you can damn well be assured that someone else is having that same exact thought. This is the nature of humanity. No man is an island.

With that being said, this way my experience. I honestly had no strong feeling toward Obama or Clinton. For several weeks I kinda felt like a referee around hear. Calling people out on their bull sh!t, regardless of whether it was pro/anti Obama/Clinton.

At one point I even posted a thread that many here thought was as anti-Obama which basically said, WHO THE HELL IS THIS GUY. I got flamed big time.

When Hillary made her remarks about McCain being more qualified than Obama, something deep inside me knew that this was very wrong. Since that point, I guess you could make the argument that I hear what I want to hear. I see it as a pattern.

You know, I don't hate Hillary at all. I never have. But she has crossed that threshold for me. We all have that threshold.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. So, are you arguing that it is subjective
to feel repulsed by certain facts, such as launching e-mail campaigns and rumors suggesting that Obama is a Muslim and a former drug-dealer, leaking to the press immediately before the Ohio primary that Obama had signaled Canadian government officials that he would "wink" at NAFTA when in fact it was Clinton's campaign that sent the signal, building up the Republican nominee by denigrating a Democratic rival, demanding that the Democratic party change its rules mid-stream to Clinton's advantage -- even threatening to sue the Democratic party?

Technically, that would be true -- depending on what the meaning of "is" is.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. you said this perfectly-
thank you-

TRUST- is vital.

I do not trust Hillary at all.

happy to rec. your excellent post.


peace~
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. Every word of your OP is true for me, too, starting with "Edwards supporter."
Thanks for posting!
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great Post
K&R
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. "She bashes Obama for having contacts with the Canadian while her own people were doing the same
thing."

This has been debunked.

"I always wondered why half this country said they would not vote for Hillary to start out with. NOW I KNOW."

Yeah, well that half is overwhelmingly Rethug, so you Obamaniacs will be in like-minded company.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. You can argue the details of the post but there are patterns here to look at. Try to see the big
picture.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. Could you please show me
where/how this has been debunked? If that is the case, I don't want to be repeating something that isn't true. Thanks.
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citygal Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. I have always been an Obama supporter, but could have easily
voted for Hillary two months ago, had she become the nominee. I had always defended her in the past and could not understand why there existed such hatred toward her. I now understand. She will stop at nothing to win. Even if it tears the Democratic party into pieces. It breaks my heart what she is doing...dragging this on and on.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
9. When I Hear Lack Of Trust, I Always Hear It Towards Obama, Including Last Night.
When I talk to regular every day people, if the concern of 'trust' comes up, I usually hear it in relation to a reason why they're not sure they support Obama. Even a woman I spoke to on the phone last night said that, when we were discussing the race. She said she liked him, but that there's just something about him she can't trust. She's an african american independent for any wondering. She seems like a Dem just needing more information to become a firm one though, so I'm gonna work on her :)
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. well, you just can't trust them muslims, ya know. nt
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Now There's A Stupid Reply If I've Ever Seen One. Try And Get A Grip, Ok?
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Doubt is a very incept thing. Let us be honest about it. We have never had a black president in
this country before. People for the most part like to stay in their comfort zone, and only get out of that zone when pushed to do so. Believe me, with the economic situation as it is, with the war in Iraq, and all of the bull that we have seen over the past 7 years people are being pushed to see things in a new light, in other words, to get over their ignorance.

Is it enough of a push to get Obama elected? I don't know, but as you can see, huge numbers of people are ready to do so.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. That Lack Of Trust Had Nothing To Do With His Race. What Are You Talking About?
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. Let my try to convey my thoughts to you on this. There could be several reason why people might
not trust Obama. Not a lot of people know him real well. For ignorant people, his middle name may be a reason. In a country like ours, with a past history of slavery, discrimination, segregation and the predidency of white man only rule, it should be self evident (you know, the pink elephant that is sitting in the middle of the living room that no one talks about) that race is also a factor for some people.

Now I don't even pretend to know what is the heart and minds of people, especially on an individual basis. But with the majority of this country still being white, and never having a black president before, would you not agress with me that this fact, in and of itself, would put doubt in some peoples minds?

We don't live in a perfect world and are not quit there yet in this country as far as racial equality goes.

That's the way I see it. I could be dead wrong, but I don't think so.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Also even if her pledges are true she woudl have a wafer thin majority and sadly again more gridlock
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent post....K&R!
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 12:04 PM by Hepburn
You put your finger on it ~~ I have NEVER trusted Hillary.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Re: the justices -
The only guarantee is that they will support RvW. Other than that, all bets are off. Wireless wiretaps? Habeas Corpus? Torture? Civil rights? Those will all be bones to throw to the repukes, to get a justice that supports abortion rights.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. two legged snake? that sounds like some kind of...
MONSTER!
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. LOL, just a metaphore, no more than that.
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trickyguy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. I too know snakes when I see them and Hillary fits
the bill here. Totally agree with you on your assesment of her. I've been telling people "she's a snake" ever since she started
running in the primaries. She's on the cover of Time magazine this weak with a headline that says "The Fighter". The article doesn't
mention her most recent quasi-endorsment of McCain and her slanderous remark about Obama.

However. The quote at the end of the main article says a lot. I quote Hillary: "Winning, winning, winning. That's my measurement of sucess. Winning"

That's a two legged "fighter" snake if there ever was on.
:mad:
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. I don't trust any of the three. HRC, Obama, or, obviously, McCain.
So it's not a trust issue for me. None of them are trustworthy, and I face the ballot knowing that.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Each of us has our own way of trusting people. Some of us trust no one. My philosophy has always
been to give the person the benefit of the doubt until pr oven wrong. In other words, there is a threshold, and once that threshold has been crossed, it would be very difficult for me to trust that person again without time and deeds. Hillary has reached that threshold.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. My trust is a little harder to earn than some, perhaps.
Possibly because it's been betrayed too many times in my life, starting in childhood. I'm usually willing to give the benefit of the doubt until I learn differently; my threshold is just not very broad.

Hillary reached that threshold for me during Bill's first campaign for president. Obama reached it at the Democratic Convention in '04. McCain reached it the day he first registered as a republican.

I trust some people for some things. I trust no one unconditionally.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. You make an excellent point. It is a matter of degrees. I have some friends that I would trust
with my wallet, and others I wouldn't. I have some friends I would trust around my gal friend, and others I wouldn't. Just the way it is I guess.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. A matter of degrees. That's exactly right. n/t
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
25. I still hear John's words in New Hampshire
"to me, it is personal, not political"

She will do whatever she believes is expedient to HER, damn the party and to hell with the country.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. I "trust" her, and Obama, to act like ambiitious politicians.
Which is about the same amount of trust I have for someone trying to sell me a watch in an alley.
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noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. All righty then...
Who is getting your vote in the G.E.?

(P.S... I am also a rabid Edwards supporter,
and if I can't vote for him,
the next best thing is someone I trust....
I'm a trusting soul, unless you betray me.
And I feel pretty betrayed by politics these days...)

So...
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. For me Hillary/McCain are one in the same. I have to toss the dice and go with Obama.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
34. You just nailed it for me
I've been looking for the words to describe why I can't support her, and you just hit it right on the head. It' the TRUST thing! Right on!

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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. God knows I search and search on a way to articulate my thoughts, feelings and attitudes. For the
past couple of weeks I knew in my heart that there was no way I could support HRC, and yet I could not point directly to the reason. Now I have and it sounds like I may have helped you to put words to it also.

That is why DU is a great place!!! Thank you DU.
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